KenK

Interesting to see a photograph of the boat as I've just finished reading Gabrielle Lorenz's book Snail's Pace all about their travels through the Netherlands, Belgium and France in the mid 90's. Well worth a read. Ken

You may well be correct although I suspect C&RT may have a different view. Fortunately it is not an issue for me when I leave my mooring overnight is usually long enough on a tow-path, then onward to pastures new. Ken

Exactly it is in the T&C's which when you fill in the licence application form you sign as agreeing to. Legally as I believe Nigel has pointed out only boaters without a home mooring actually have the right as mentioned by the 1995 act to moor for up to 14 days, the rest of us have to rely on the T&C's. There may be an argument for as it is not prohibited by the act then it's allowed but I suspect somewhere or other there is a bye-law otherwise what stops anyone just mooring permanently on the tow-path for free, the old ghost mooring trick. Ken

Exactly the same. The licence allows you to moor on the tow-path for a period of 14 days or less if there are signs indicating a shorter period. Then you need to move. Ken

You have already said you are looking to buy second hand but the Crick boat show is at the end of May. The boats are new but it would give you a good idea about layouts, ask questions etc. Even have a chat with C&RT, some of them are very nice people. Probably give you the chance to talk to a few boaters as well, also generally very nice people. Ken

Sorry, who is completely wrong? Ken Insult? I asked a question. You were quite happy to insult me, you called me rude and malicious. If you can't take it don't dish it out. Ken

If you are in London as your location suggests and if you own a bike and indeed if you haven't done it already try cycling around some of the canals from Little Venice. Try and see where you could moor overnight and indeed try and spot the facilities, they are few and far between. C&RT have said in the past that because they will issue a Rivers Only licence for the Lee and Stort they accept that it is possible to CC on there. Central London much more difficult, although there are miles of tow-path you can't moor because it is concrete or tarmac, no rings or piling and no way to bang in pins. I wish you luck but do a lot more research before you spend any money. One we always ask have you been on a narrowboat for a holiday, if not I would before you commit to the lifestyle. Ken

I have no intention of denying it, that is exactly what I said, however I'm not quite sure how you interpret that as their breaking a law or indeed me claiming that they were. Is English your first language because your grasp of it seems limited. The lady requested from C&RT a distance which they have to travel to comply with the 1995 act, or the rules, guidance, terms & conditions etc. which she claimed she didn't know but there is no set distance either in the act or the T&C's. Bona Fide is determined by the way the boat is used i.e. its primary purpose which in their case, judging by what she stated on the radio, is as a home. As soon as anyone asks the, how far is far enough question, they immediately open themselves up to a failure to pass the bona fide test. Another example A couple purchased a narrow boat 15 years ago and kept it in a marina using it for holidays and weekends. Last year they retired, they have rented out their house, their children have homes of their own. This year they have given up their mooring and set off in their boat to explore the Inland Waterways of England. The boat is their home for the foreseeable future. The primary purpose of their use of the boat is to explore, the use as a home is secondary, hence the navigation is bona fide. Or. A single 30 year old man, works from his boat as a software engineer, lives aboard, has no other dwelling. He works when he feels like it, moves his boat when he wishes always staying within the time limits for mooring, not confined to one area, wandering around the system as he wishes. Again the navigation is bona fide. Do those two examples, again my opinion, make it easier for you? Ken

Interesting comments above. I used the example of the family in the radio programme simply because that was the start of the discussion. I do not believe I made any assumptions, it was clear from the lady's comments on the programme that her main concern was ensuring the children could get to school and that her husband could get to work, logically if the boat could remain in one place that could more easily be achieved. The point of my example was not to as BMC suggests to be either rude or malicious, in fact I can't see where I accused them of wrong doing, but simply to give what in my opinion is a clear example of the term "bona fide" I'm sure there are areas of the country, Birmingham for one, where it would be possible to hold down a job in one location, for the children to attend school and for the boat to move "bona fide". I'm equally sure it is not possible on the 20 kilometre stretch of the K&A between Bath and Semington. That of course is my opinion, it was also the judges opinion in the Davies case. Ken

Next time a C&RT employee is asked the question possibly they could use the following as a reply. The 1995 act requires that either a home mooring is available or that the boat be used “Bona Fide for Navigation”. The question then arises what does "Bona Fide" mean. A judge in one of the section 8 cases used the example of the Mersey Ferry. The ferry transports passengers from one side of the River Mersey to the other and back again. It only travels a relatively short distance each time. The purpose of the ferry is to move passengers, in order to do so it must navigate the river, therefore navigation is a necessary requirement for the ferry to perform its primary function and hence is “bona fide”. Now consider the case of the lady boater on the BBC 2 radio show. She, her husband and children live on a boat, it is used as far as we know as their main residence. Her husband needs to commute to his place of work and the children need to be taken to school, I do not recall if the lady herself worked. None of this activity requires movement of the boat, in fact movement of the boat is actually prejudicial to the activity. The purpose of the boat is accommodation therefore navigation is not a necessary requirement for the boat to perform its primary function. Their only reason for moving the boat is to try to comply with the terms of the 1995 act and hence is NOT “bona fide”. I’m not a lawyer but I would suggest that the above is a straightforward example of what “bona fide” means in practice and resolves the, how far do I need to move question, which C&RT cannot answer. Ken

I would think you would be better off speaking to Stuart Mills, he is the property director for C&RT. Stuart.Mills@canalrivertrust.org.uk Ken

If you actually read what I said rather than making up your own version. I said "around 200 boats in various stages of enforcement" and if you actually look at the figures you will see that is an under estimate. Obviously some of them had enough sense to increase their movement when they received the first communication but a significant proportion did not. Do not forget this trial was over a year and it provided those boaters who always claim, they do not understand what they need to do to comply, chapter and verse as to exactly what C&RT would accept. Despite that a number refused to comply. This kind of selfishness actually effects boaters who do their best to comply whilst CCing the most, if the trial had succeeded it might have been rolled out over the whole system. As in C&RT's eyes it failed it is back to square 1. Ken

In 2014 -2015 the Western end between Foxhangers and Bath was treated as an exception. Fourteen zones were defined covering roughly a 20 kilometre distance, boaters were required to move between the fourteen zones over the course of a year. Standard time rules applied 14 day stay or less if they were on a Visitor mooring. Movement had to be more than just go from Foxhangers to Bath and return and then sit still for the rest of the year but everything that the lady on the programme requested was defined. The areas were monitored and a report generated every three months, any boat not deemed to be complying was sent a warning communication. Now you would think that it would be easy to comply with such relatively small movement but alas around 200 boats found themselves in various stages of enforcement because they would not or claimed they could not comply, this despite C&RT allowing all requests for extended stays. If anyone is interested the full info is on C&RT's website under consultations. As a friend of mine who has a boat down there said it doesn't matter what C&RT try some boats never move. Ken

Not true, C&RT and BW before them issue licenses they do not have the power to decide who navigates which canal or river. Indeed their own guidelines clearly state that when CCing one should make a progressive journey not turning around unless one reaches the end of a waterway. You can for example obtain a rivers only license for the Lee and Stort and CC on those waters with no way off and C&RT have accepted that that is OK. Given that the K&A is about 90 miles long going both ways 180 is I would say well within the spirit of CCing. Boaters could indeed choose either of the options you suggest but that would be their choice not C&RT's and if they choose to CC that is also their choice and as long as they do it within the guidelines good luck to them. Ken

The issue with the above claim is that under no circumstances does C&RT have the authority to force anyone to take either an EA license or to pay to enter Bristol Harbour and then travel on the Severn Estuary. One or the other would be required if, as suggested, a boater was told to move to another waterway controlled by C&RT. I also happen to know a couple who CC on the K&A between Bath and Newbury, in fact I travelled up the Caen Hill last August with them. In conversation I asked if they had any problems with enforcement given the amount of attention paid to the K&A. She said they had never had a problem, they time their movements to fit in with her husbands job which takes him away from home for a week or so at a time. On one occasion his return was delayed and they would have exceeded the 14 days before he returned, she contacted C&RT because she has arthritis and can't manage the boat on her own. She was told "no problem" and thanks for letting us know, she saw the EO a couple of days later who was aware of the issue and also said it is never a problem if only boaters let us know in advance rather than waiting until we come knocking. Ken

Boat is called Rival, it's on the duck if you want more details, nothing to do with me, just one I looked at whilst contemplating a boat change. Ken

If it is any help you can borrow my son to house sit for you. We are so lucky that he has returned home after the last tour with the band but honestly I'm sure your need is greater than ours Ken

My wife is a school teacher so we are restricted to school holidays and weekends. First five years of this boat we were based in Newbury on the K&A, one two week trip at Easter and the long one in August plus weekends. We covered everything we could reach in our timescales, K&A to Bristol, Thames both ends including the tidal bit, Oxford, GU, Wey etc. Then we moved the boat to Stone and did the same From there for four years, T&M, Trent, Liverpool, Manchester, Weaver etc. Last year we moved the boat back to Newbury as it needs some work and its close to home. This year it won't be used at all but we have already booked two weeks from Lattes to Negra on the Canal du Midi in August passed the CEVNI test last week so I can add it to my ICC. Retirement looms this year so we may do the Caledonian in September just because we can. Next year its away from April to whenever to do some of the bits we haven't seen so far and revisit some of the ones we have. Ken

As far as I know the signs are the work of the K&A Trust not C&RT. I suppose it is the usual thing put them on locks where there is a current either just before or just after, then "Elf & Safety" takes over. If you put them on some locks and not others and there is an accident are you liable? Ken

I have one made by Black and Decker, bought it some years ago for £30. It copes with Standard and Gell batteries. Has several error codes i.e. connected incorrectly etc. Allows you to select rate of charge up to 2A, 10A and 30A. Has an equalisation function. Displays rate of charge either as current or voltage. Can be left connected monitors the batteries and turns on as required. Also has a jump start function came in handy for sons car several times. I have 660 Amps of Domestic batteries and it keeps them fully charged and yes I do have a Smartgauge. Forget boats look at car sites, you'll find plenty to choose from at sensible prices. Ken

This just popped into my in box from C&RT, feel sorry for those boaters in the pic. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/an-update-on-the-flooding?utm_source=Combined+Boaters%27+Update+Sep+2013&utm_campaign=bf7385dd1f-Flood_damage_special&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_482c157644-bf7385dd1f-63363945 Ken

I remove the PRV, connect the fitting and pressurise the top of the tank, water comes out of the cold tap. When the cylinder is empty I close all the taps pump it up to about ten pounds and open a hot tap, repeat for each tap. That empties the hot pipework. Ken

Yes because eventually the water stops flowing and air comes out of the taps instead. Ken

I also empty the hot water tank but I do not have a drain point. I made up a fitting using the correct size of pluming fitting for the pipework on top of the vertical cylinder and a Schrader valve from an old bike inner tube. Break into the plumbing, fit my adaptor and pressurize the tank using an air pump with a hot tap open. Gets rid of all the water in the tank and in the pipework. Ken

Just to be boring and bring it back on topic. I'm going to be refurbishing the interior of my boat next year and as I am in a marina which does not require a C&RT license I sent Customer services an e mail informing them of my intentions and asking if there was anything else I needed to do. I received an e mail this morning asking me to log on to the licensing website and there I could declare the boat off water. This I did, took about 30 seconds start to finish. I have always found that if you deal sensibly with people they deal with you in exactly the same way. Ken