Horace42

When you attend your training course, (and assuming you have your own PAT tester), then in this scenario, you would be the 'expert' and thus would be able to tell us we need our boat tested, or not. I am curious about the content of the training course and why it is necessary. Let's face it, you can buy a PAT tester off Amazon or eBay, read the instructions, and become a 'Tester'. So does the course cover more details like electrical theory, form filling etc, (that creates an audit trail of responsibility when you issue 'pass' certificates), and how to service the actual equipment you will be testing, and perhaps more importantly how to find and 'fix' faults. Having read the replies to date, I would be inclined to say boats are exempt. But having said that it would be so easy to plug a boat into your PAT - and interesting to see what happens.

The answer is a lemon.................

Yes! See #8. I had my boat blacked there last September. Contact Narrowcraft at Alvecote marina. Lawrence Williams was my contact. narrowcraft@alvecotemarina.co.uk

No better at coming up with a solution. In fact, even with some artistic nudging and roping, opening sluices to assist in moving heavy unbalanced lock gates, and the tail end of flooding, also with heavy bridges on the K and A a few years ago that were physically demanding (and too tough for two of us at our advancing years, even waiting for passers-by to assist, we gave up and abandoned our trip to Bristol - and turned back at Newbury.

In this day and age I agree it is bad practice and something I avoid doing, except sometime gates are stiff, or too heavy, or off balance, and need a nudge. Where perhaps more so for those who are single handed, but I imagine in the old days it would have been normal practice for working boats to use ropes and horses and the momentum of the boat to open and shut gates without worrying too much about the delicacy and finesse of lock operation.

.... as you are likely to have, where a generator would be essential because all the promised charging points never materialised, and those that have been installed are being so few and far between, meaning the generator needs to be large enough to propel the boat in the event of a flat battery, to reach a vacant mooring with a charging point. If a generator disqualifies under terms of 'sole' - then using a pole to move the boat when the battery is flat must similarly apply.

Is there a formal CRT definition of what an electric boat is ? - at least for the purpose of qualifying for a discount. I would assume it is one where the prime mover is a propeller only driven by an electric motor.

.......and also the acronym could be the factors the contract managers give priority to in decision making.... .........' Potential Pay, Pension, Perks, Privileges and Promotion in Personal Pay Packages ' ..... that must be got right above all else.... (give or take a P).

Hear! Hear!

On a technical point, the RH is affected by the air temperature and pressure. As warm air can hold more water vapour than cold air, an increase in temperature will cause the RH to drop. So bringing in cold air from outside and warming it up means the air becomes drier. Things will dry out when water evaporates thus raising the RH. Then when it cools down (eg, heat off), the RH drops, when and at the actual dewpoint (100%RH) the vapour condenses (seen as water on cold windows) but also permeates soft fabrics making them feel damp.

Same with me, usually only for mooring (when at home during winter) - to stop dampness in soft furnishings and condensation on windows - set at 50% or thereabouts. Anything lower is unnecessary - it just consumes more power for no real benefit.

"......Trust the Force.....Cal..."

And a nice pub/restaurant at the bottom.

One tries to please! bovine

Thanks Tacet. Reading through 45 pages of RICS guidance is something of a tall order - and something probably only needed if things go wrong - but I 'flicked' through the pages to get a 'feel' of the content. It embodies a basis of 'fairness' for both parties. ... albeit a cynical view is the whole estate agency business is geared up for those who provide professional support services to make money out of failure. .... eg, structural surveys on aborted sales arising from broken chains... and solicitors paid fees regardless of completion. But what of boat brokers ? is it much the same ?

I have no problem with the concept of market price or actual price - these evolve during the marketing exercise. My earlier comments were more to do with the mechanism of calculating the sales price to start the marketing process to attract offers. Put simply, if the broker deducts 25% of the sales price to cover all selling costs, then you have to add 33.3% to the nett price (the minimum you will accept) to arrive at the sales price. If in the event of proper marketing forcing you to accept a lower price, the 25% the broker deducts will still be equal to 33.3% of the nett price you end up with. From which, if a broker quotes a percentage for charging - you need to make sure whether it applies to the nett price you ask , or the sales price charged - and for the pedants, who will say it does not affect the market price, then it will certainly affect how much you get. As I said, I do not know about common practice among boat brokers, but it is something I would watch out for, just in case.

Mine is a case of a sole agency, for which there is a lower fee, and being a complex sale, where the agent has to do a lot more work to sell the property - and can do so fairly safe in the knowledge they will be paid something for the effort and expenditure they incur .... albeit having to wait until completion to be paid. The problem arises if a deal fails to materialise - perhaps in a case of offers not being enough (for all sorts of reasons) - after proper marketing - the client thus not accepting any - and deciding not sell. This is when the small print of the RICS type contract becomes magnified .... especially in response to the blunt instrument of 'sacking.' These things lurk in the background - but I don't know if this applies to boat sales.

Thanks Tacet. A lot of useful background. To enlarge slightly on the RICS definition (from my current dealings with a house for sale) the basic criteria in the agent's contract is to find a buyer 'Ready, Willing and Able'. Which in reality means I incur a fee based on the 'offer' price - that I will be expected to pay - even if the offer is a silly one and I refuse to accept it. I appreciate it could degenerate into an argument over what is 'proper marketing' if it all falls through. I don't know if this is the way brokers in boat selling work - but it is something to watch.

Please provide an explanation, a example calculation for instance, to demonstrate the logic behind your NO's. ....one example will do ....

The boat is worth what the buyer and seller agree on. My comments where more to do with the calculations to arrive at the selling price to start the sales process.

The house (or the boat) is worth what the buyer will pay for it, regardless of how the seller calculates the price. But in order to arrive at a sales price, the seller has to decide the minimum net price they want, on to which is added all the selling costs, to arrive at the list price. Which in terms of simple arithmetic, 33.33% will needed to be added to the net price to allow 25% to be deducted the list price. Whether net price and list price, or even broker fees are realistic, is a separate issue.

Yes, that's right, the sales price is not inflated by commission. It is the minimum price the seller will accept that is inflated by broker costs to arrive at an asking price. The sales price will eventually depend on the broker finding a buyer - from which the fees will be deducted. It remains to be seen whether the expectations of the buyer and seller are achieved by the broker. A broker who charges commission at 25% of the sales price, means the seller's price will have to be inflated by 33.33%.

Yes, but that does not stop the seller from accepting a higher price or better offer - and arbitrarily returning your deposit. This is where a good broker comes in handy.

I suspect, in terms of sales psychology, the brokers fee can appear to be a lot less if calculated as a percentage of the sales price and deducted from what the buyer actual pays, with the balance going to the seller. By example, using round numbers to make the arithmetic easy to follow: The boat seller wants £90k. The broker wants £30k. The buyer has to pay £120k. To get £30k, the broker deducts 25% from the sales price, or must add 33.3% to the asking price. As a sales ploy, for those not versed in the finer points of sales techniques, a broker charging 25% sounds a much better proposition than one charging 33.3%. Whereas the step-by-step route the money takes could make a big difference.

What is proof of ownership ? - nothing really. In fact, when you think about it, it is quite difficult to prove ownership (...of anything). In the end it comes down to trusting the evidence (the provenance). And then if it goes pear-shaped - what independent law enforcement parties make of the evidence if the buyer seeks redress. Even if a scam, buying a boat off Arthur Daley, in itself is not an issue, it is only when the real buyer turns up wanting the boat back does the trouble start. ....when they in turn will have to produce evidence they are the real owners............not easy !