smileypete

I s'pose its confusing compared to say a flow of water which is the other way round. 20 litres/hour is a flow rate and 20 litres is a quantity of water. Whereas for charge it's 20 amps for a rate of charge and 20 Amp Hours for a quantity of charge. It's perfectly legitimate to say I use 70 litres a day.

Just disable the update service: http://www.thewindowsclub.com/turn-off-windows-update-in-windows-10 Happy? (probably not... )

Fit a changeover switch 'cam switch' that allows you to switch the sockets between shoreline inlet and combi output. Fit a small 10A or 20A charger to work in parallel with the combi charger (don't have it powered from the combi output obviously!) Both will help to overcome various issues and failure modes mentioned here, and will still be of use if and when you decide to go to separates. HTH....

The more info you can give the better the advice will be. If you feel up to it there's a list of questions on this topic: 'When you post about your battery problem, please include the following information. If you don't know how to get it, then by all means post asking how to find it, but this info is essential before anyone can give any meaningful help diagnosing a battery problem. 1) Type of battery. Open cell, sealed, AGM, something else 2) Number of batteries in your bank, and the make, model and age of them 3) Exact make and model of any monitoring device(s) you have. Or say if you have none. 4) The method you use to charge them. Engine alternator, generator and charger, shore line and charger, solar, something else 5) The make and model of your engine alternator, charger, generator etc. 6) The voltage at which your batteries are being charged, assuming you have a voltmeter 7) A brief description of your charging regime, i.e. how long you charge for, how frequently 8) A brief description of how you know when your batteries need to be charged. I.e. when do you start charging? 9) A brief description of how you know when to stop charging them. I.e. how do you decide when they are full? 10) A brief description of how the batteries are seen to be underperforming or failing. The board will probably still come back with further questions, based on the info above you supply, but this will speed an answer to your problems by several days, probably. Many thanks! Sorry it's either 'question hell' or 'expert hell', the choice is yours... The less information given then the more disparate and confusing the advice may be, being based more on speculation about the problem.

There's thermal switches on Ebay for a couple of quid. Maybe have one to start the pump running slowly at 60°C, then another to run the pump fast at 90°C. Usually they switch back at 10 to 15°C lower. Or use the dig thermostat to start the pump running slowly at a lower temp then have a 80°C to 90°C thermal switch as a backup.

If you shoehorn in a cubbyhole for a studio size washer then you're restricted to that type with few choices and high prices. So if refitting I'd allocate space for a full size one if possible, it can be repurposed as cupboard space if you find you don't need it (!) or don't need it yet. Some models are slim depth (45 to 50cm) which may play better in a narrowboat, also some models have a cold wash button or temperature dial which will play better with cold washes or separately heated water.

To date the main options for reading current appear to be: - Something like a UK supplied NASA BM1 or BM2 made for the boating market which also has an amp hour counting SoC gauge (use with great care!) - The wireless VA meter which reportedly works well. - The meter mentioned a couple of weeks ago where there is a built in isolator. This means its shunt can go in the negative or positive and it can read both directions. - A handheld clamp meter such as the Uni Trend UT210E which can be had for about £30 from Amazon - An old school analogue meter where its shunt can go in the positive or negative. Some of the single direction 100A ones have a good enough scale for reading tail current, I s'pose two could be used for both directions, running off the same shunt. - A single direction ammeter where the shunt must be in the negative, probably not worth it these days with the other options available. - The older bidirectional ammeters which need an external isolated supply for reading both directions. Again, a bit too fiddly nowadays with so many other options available. Some product links... Wireless meter: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-120V-300A-Wireless-Volt-Ammeter-Power-Meter-battery-Charge-discharge-capacity/172278832577 Meter with built in isolator: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-100V-500A-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Charge-Discharge-Isolation-current-tester-12v-24v/172733947168 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-100V-200A-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Charge-Discharge-Isolation-current-tester-12v-24v/182623244034 Clamp meter: https://www.amazon.co.uk/UNI-T-UT210E-Current-Meters-Capacitance/dp/B00O1Q2HOQ Typical 100A analogue meter: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-100A-Current-Ampmeter-Analog-AMP-Panel-Meter-Ammeter-Gauge-85C1/202025021524 Only thing to watch is that some meters need the shunt purchased separately, the cheap ones tend to use a 75mV shunt and the more expensive marine meters a 100mV shunt, the meter needs the correct matching one or the reading will be waaay out.

I kinda covered that in post #43, trapped air will kill gravity circulation stone dead so a 'self bleeding' system is very useful. I don't think so really, a domestic system has bottom entry and exit, usually on startup the hot water evenly fills the top of the rad and then spreads evenly down. I expect the top backboiler exit was above the bottom rad tapping or at least close to it. Trouble is only say 2% of boat backboiler systems are like that, the rest follow the usual layout with stove at front. What works very well for your sample of 1 will not work for the other 98%. TLDR; I posted a sample layout, if people want to do it differently, that's absolutely fine by me. But if it underperforms then what can I do, I tried my best... ETA: probably well worth doing a diagram anyway, it's likely to be a fraction of the time spend on installing and will help identify booboos. Even a sketch on paper is much better than nothing...

I reckon once people properly get the hang of 'tail current' then it's not a huge step to correctly set up an amp hour counter and understand it's shortcomings. Trouble is some (most?) canal or riverboat owners want a 'fit and forget' type box with no instruction manual reading needed, and so their batts die slowly or not so slowly in the meantime.

Haven't read every reply in detail but here's my thoughts: Somewhere in another topic I suggested three main scenarios for batt ownership: Plan A for most (95%?) of boaters would be decent brand leisure batts. Plan B would be Trojans but only if they can be provided with the correct charge and EQ voltages, and required maintenance and monitoring. I expect this needs a genuine long term interest, hmmm... Plan C is to use a less common battery make/type/chemistry/desulphators etc, but then you may be the guinea pig on that one. I guess most second home type boats fall into Plan A, and most off grid liveaboards move towards Plan B at some point. Sounds like the OP is firmly 'Plan A' at this point and using the boat while moored in a marina with a shoreline and I guess will stay that way through the winter. So the initial step might be best to get some decent brand leisure batts (Numax, Varta, Banner) and a modest charger to keep them topped up, I made a suggestion for a charger on the other topic: Later on when circumstances change might be a good time to think about battery monitoring (Smartgauge? ammeter?) and possibly a decent solar setup if warranted. A lot may depend on how much the inverter will be used when off grid... I guess you could split 'Plan A' down between those having very modest electrical demands or very occasional use off grid, and those with large inverter expecting something akin to a shore based lifestyle while off grid, with the majority in between somewhere.

Not really worth it IMHO when a multifuel stove with a similar size 'footprint' is a little more: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Warranty-5-5KW-Efficiency-Burning-Multifuel/dp/B008KG4JH6/ref=sr_1_3/259-7586861-8188407

I never said it did. Having wasted a goodly amount of quality time on bl**dy Peukert and a certain persons obsession with it, I'm reluctant to answer further... I'm sure the assembled experts can work something out on the centering thing...

Johnson cartridge pumps are good, the ribbed pond hose seems to last OK on a typical narrowboat and is much more flexible than the usual braided stuff. Modern float switches 'mercury free' appear to be pants as the reviews seem to suggest they don't last long term, no cheap and easy way out of that one I'm afraid. I s'pose you could get an industrial mercury tilt switch for £20ish and build it into some sort of tilting float arrangement...

I would say 99% of canal and river boats have a 12V pump and some 12V lights (or 24V of course), so my general advice should be appropriate. If on a mains supplied mooring 24/7 with such a boat, then yes, you don't neeeeed a £££££ charger, but.... If people have some wierd and wonderful setup, chances are they don't need advice.

Sure you can buy a decent 12V power supply for buttons these days, plenty for LED lights, 12V fridge and water pump; but most (98%?) of boaters want something 'fit and forget' and are prepared to pay for it.

If it was then I can't see how a gravity system would work at all in the first place. Seems to me domestic rads heat evenly along the top even with fairly little flow though them. But if people prefer one way instead of the other that's fine by me... How did you get on with piping up your rads into the system?

Yeah I'm just thinking that if there's some space to one side of the gravity rads then they can be swapped round to change the heat output in different locations, in case the more distant ones aren't giving out enough heat. With a diagonal connection it might be more tricky if all soldered in, with connections one one side it might just mean undoing the compression to 1/2 BSP that connects into the rads.

Sorry for the late reply... I s'pose 15mm should work OK for the 'tails' off the main run if we're talking about several small rads running off a smallish back boiler. Some people put the flow and return at diagonal corners for the gravity rads but I doubt this makes much difference, and might make it trickier to change the radiator later on for a bigger/smaller one if need be.

Use self drilling 'tek' screws to drill and cut a thread, then replace with identical thread stainless ones if and when... I think the light tek screws go up to 5mm steel, not sure what most builders use for decks these days...

For just keeping a few leisures topped up on shoreline a 10A or 20A Numax\Electroquest one should do: https://electroquestuk.com/chargers/leisure-battery-chargers-marine-battery-chargers/fully-automatic-marine-leisure-battery-charger-12v-10a https://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-Commercial-Battery-Charger-20A-P6139.html

Wrap your shoes in chicken wire? (I'm surprised Mr Bizzard hasn't suggested this... )

I did a sample layout diagram a while back which may help: Some things worth mentioning are - There must be NO valve between backboiler top outlet and header tank vent pipe (v. important!!!). - The top of the gravity fed radiators should be as high as poss compared to the backboiler top outlet. - The heat output of the gravity fed rads should largely match the heat output of the backboiler, say at least 70% to 80% - If a pump is needed the cheap 100°C rated 'solarproject' type pumps are reported to work well. - The gravity fed rads can be near or next to the stove which allows more choice over where the heat is output to. - The incline on the pipes to the gravity fed rads is more about making that part of the system 'self bleeding' of trapped air. All that said backboilers are more worthwhile for off grids boats largely occupied 24/7 in winter, for partly occupied boats that some quick heat at the other end once or twice a day, there's also blown air diesel and propane heaters like Eberspacher and Propex.

Hate to be negative but personally I feel a backboiler system is only worth the hassle for year round off grid live aboard, or long term winter boating. Though it is a very nice idea. How much experience does the handy friend have of installing backboiler systems on boats? It's quite a bit different to normal domestic plumbing which is almost plug n play these days...

Buy a scale off Ebay for about a fiver, weigh cylinder (for Mike only: disconnect cylinder first!), have a nice long hopefully warm enough shower for 20 to 30 mins, then reweigh the cylinder. OP has already changed a couple of parts and serviced it to no avail, I'd have though the above was considerably easier and cheaper, and what's more will answer the crucial assumption, namely is 'gas to the boiler' actually fine or not? Unless Mike has a better idea or really wants to write an Encyclopedia of Morco Troubleshooting for Boats. Which I don't. If the gas boiler is using the rated amount of gas then the problem lies elsewhere....

Not that hard surely, what's your alternative?