Up-Side-Down

In 148 posts I believe that there have only been two references (from Tony and Tam & Di) to the fundamental question that should be asked before embarking a project like this - way before deciding on a builder and/or fitter. And that is 'what am I going to use this boat for in the course of my ownership?' The OP has declared an interest in crossing the Channel and cruising extensively in France. In RCD terms this, IMO, equates to Category B. Tam & Di make a point about the suitability (unsuitability) of many new-build craft designed in the UK for Continental cruising and refer the OP to the Barge Association as part of the basic research process required before commissioning a new vessel. WT build beautiful narrowboats which I have regarded with great envy for many years! The overall shape, and especially the cabin and hull sheer, of their wide-beam boats also appear very appealing in the pictures I have seen. However, is the OP absolutely clear which RCD category the finished craft will meet (and appear on the registration plate - linked to by Tony) and whether it is the best possible boat for their intended continental cruising, which differs widely (and in so many ways) from boating the UK inland waterways?

But very comforting to find the light's still working well .............

John Gould - a trader on the eastern section of the waterway who, in 1955, successfully petitioned against the British Transport Commission's failure to maintain the waterway and obtained damages for loss of business. Arguably, without him, there would be no K & A today.

Thanks Wassat - that's the one I was after. However, I'm not sure that the PBO test makes the distinction between emulsifiers and de-emulsifiers in the clear and straightforward way that Tony has done in past posts. Nor is there mention of the Marine 16 'regular' treatment. Just the shock dose that again Tony has mentioned - but alongside the ongoing treatment.

A little over 5 years ago Practical Boat Owner tested 10 products designed to attack diesel bug and their results are available in this pdf: http://www.marine16.co.uk/acatalog/d..._pbo_test1.pdf This is, of course, now somewhat out of date and they repeated their tests on 12 products for the May 2011 issue. Unfortunately I can only find access to this in a back number at the princely sum of £6.95 although I believe I did once have a copy of it. Does anyone else have a copy that could be made available on the site?

Tony, many thanks for taking so much trouble to provide such a comprehensive and far ranging reply. It provides the bigger picture which was the motive behind my making my original post. There is lots to think on here and it has also improved my overall understanding of the injection side of a diesel engine - particularly that there are two separate and distinct areas where the IP requires lubrication: one that can be fed from an engine oil gallery etc and one reliant on the passage of fuel. The aching silence on the part of the fuel companies on this issue leaves me feeling slightly suspicious. One statement could answer a lot of these questions - silence leaves me wondering if there is something to hide or at least that there are areas of concern.

The link in my post No 13 shows, amongst other things, the comparative effectiveness of Stanadyne's product taken from an American trial. Obviously this needs to be viewed in the light of Tony's subsequent observations. I realise that my original post, that mentions Grade D diesel, was pretty 'information heavy' and could easily cause confusion for which I apologise. I was just trying to set my observations/questions in the context of what I'd learnt. Grade D diesel is the old (pre 1/1/11) high sulphur content, red diesel that we all used before EU regulations more or less prohibited its use in anything but heating appliances and generators. As such it is 35 sec gas oil as distinct from 28 sec kerosene - or heating oil - and therefore thicker. I believe the 'sec' refers to the time taken for a given quantity to pass through an orifice of a prescribed size - but I'm sure Tony will correct me if I'm wrong. I agree with your comments about 'good technical information!' I feel that Tony has, over the months, screwed down the diesel bug issue to a set of cut and dried recommendations and given us all an excellent understanding of what's going on and the strategy needed to come out on top of the situation. Peripheral to this, is the lubricity issue surrounding ULSD - especially where no bio is added. Again I think he's nailed this one - in the course of this thread - as far as he is able without input from the injector pump companies and the fuel companies.

I think that's Graham and his son Karl Acaster from Goole standing on the Stern/bow. Acaster's Water Transport had a contract in the summer to move equipment from Hull up to Stragglethorpe Power Station above Newark and they hired one of Waddington's few remaining dumb barges to do that job - I believe that was Resilience too. Visible, just beyond the bridge is, I believe, one of their tugs - either Little Shuva or Little Shifta. I think Shuva was used last time but my memory defeats me. When not pushing a dumb barge on the Besthorpe - Whitwood gravel run, these tiny tugs push large ocean-going vessels around Goole Docks with ease. Lots of youtube footage showing them at work. Their wheel boxes go up and down to clear the canal bridges on the A&C using a re-cycled fork lift mast. Ingenious people the Acasters!

On reflection I can see that it is more than likely that there will be a difference between UK/EU fuel standards and those in the US - and the cynic in me does tend to concur with your gut reaction Tony. Nevertheless, do you think I might be justified in drawing two conclusions from this research? i) That wear is reduced by the presence of sulphur in fuel - albeit, by just how much, is a matter open to debate, as it is likely that we and our US cousins might well be working from different base lines. ii) That additives (be they bio-diesel; sulphur; engine oil or whatever) clearly reduce wear in metal to metal surfaces and that this is significant in what is surely the diesel engine's most delicate (and expensive) component - namely the injector pump. My concern reaches way beyond my own indifferent lump (of which there are plenty of examples around) and is ultimately focused on those Kelvins, Gardners, Russell Newbery's and the like which, apart from being objects of engineering excellence and visual/audio beauty, are a part of our heritage and increasingly difficult to source spares for. In my ignorance I'm afraid I don't know to what extent the fuel provides lubrication or whether there is a direct tapping to the engine oil. I recall that in earlier Ford tractors there was a small plug on the in-line Simms injector pump that you unscrewed, and poured in oil, as part of the regular routine maintenance regime.

I used CAPS to emphasise that Tony has the experience - while I'm just spouting theory and received wisdom. As such I could easily be talking through my proverbial hat and was wanting to make this clear - I'm very sorry if it wasn't. The Grangemouth Refinery is certainly still producing Grade D high sulphur diesel and as you'll see from my previous post I have just been offered it at a couple of pence below the price of ULSD. This was what prompted my query to Tony and I have also held off filling my tanks until I can get to the bottom of the matter. No, diesel bug is certainly not new. It's just that the incidence of it has increased considerably since bio was added to diesel due, as I understand it, to bio's hygroscopic nature which en-trains greater quantities of water in the fuel - thereby providing just the environment where the yeasts, microbes and bacteria can thrive.

Thanks very much for that considered reply Tony. Having spent the best part of 50 years being subject to the doctrine that sulphur = essential diesel fuel pump lubrication, I felt I should at least make an attempt to rise to your challenge of finding some chapter and verse on the matter. So making good use of Mr Google, as always, I went for a trawl round the WWW and soon lighted on this which appears to be some pretty Kosher research. See what you think: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177728 If the fuel companies feel that 520 micron wear is now acceptable when using ULSD, yet 460 micron wear was the norm in pre-ULSD days, then we're looking at increased wear of approx 13%. If true, then I believe that this is not acceptable - but maybe this should all be taken with a pinch of salt. I look forward to your response based on many more years PRACTICAL experience than I can ever muster.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons for the addition of up to 7% bio diesel is to replace the lubricity (required by the injector pump and injectors) that was previously inherent in the high sulphur content of the diesel sold as 'red diesel'- or gas oil to give it its proper name. The other reason being, of course, is in support of EU air quality objectives. As of 1/1/11 gas oil used in all diesel engined non-road mobile machinery (NRMM) had to contain no more than 10 milligrams of sulphur per kilogram of fuel making it virtually 'sulphur free'. This is known as Grade A2 NRMM propulsion fuel and usually contains a bio content. This fuel will almost certainly be DERV with an added red dye. Grade D (the original high sulphur content diesel we all purchased as 'red diesel' to fill our boat tanks with pre 1/1/!!) is still available (@ a penny or two cheaper than Grade A2) and is known as heating and stationary power generating fuel. It is also sometimes described as 'Marine Diesel' and is used by all deep sea vessels as the problems from diesel bug could be potentially catastrophic. So far so good! With a 700 litre tank capacity on my boat I buy directly from a fuel oil distributor and he is currently offering me Grade A2 sulphur free gas oil, which is also bio free, as no bio is at present being added at the Grangemouth refinery. So the 'plot thickens!' There are effectively 3 types of red diesel out there: i) Grade A2 with up to 7% biodiesel added ii) Grade A2 with no biodiesel added iii) Grade D high sulphur diesel - the 'dirty' old pre 1/1/11 red diesel hated by most diesel central heating boilers and cooking stoves, mine included. Around the system boatyards boast that their diesel is bio-free but is this because a) they're stocking the old Grade D gas oil OR is it Grade A2 minus the bio content? Which brings me to my 64 thousand dollar question for Tony (sorry its taken so long getting to the point!). Where is the all-important diesel pump lubrication coming from when Grade A2 fuel - without bio - is used? My conjecture is that either the refinery is using an additive or they rely on a modern diesel's reduced need for fuel system lubrication. As I understand it my 1960s Ford lump (otherwise known as a Beta Tug engine) is very partial to large volumes of sulphur passing through its injector pump on a regular basis and I would therefore be very reluctant to use Grade A2 fuel without bio. However, my diesel cooker/heater would love the 'clean' Grade A2 and I would spent far less time de-gunking it. I'd be very grateful if anybody could throw some light on my dilemma before I order my next consignment of fuel. Although I have two tanks I like to maintain the flexibility of using either for heating and/or propulsion. The stove is fed from the bottom of the tanks which is a crude (though effective) way of removing the water and rubbish and over the past 12 years the Dickinson (with its separate filter system) has never objected to its varied diet. As we know, the brew of microbes, yeasts etc that Tony mentions live most contentedly at the interface between the diesel/water layer (exacerbated by the hygroscopic nature of bio-diesel) and my system continuously and effectively interferes with this interface.

If they connect a live feed into the cctv security cams on my mooring, where the ice now covers the cut as far as the eye can see, I might just be able to arrange a Titanic replay for you. And who knows in this challenged climate - a full size iceberg might even come up the Clyde!

Another fire brigade shuttle?

It's there again - a wee bit downstream of where it was this morning. I believe 'Nessie' usually takes annual leave around this time of the year.

It was happening this morning too for quite a few webcam refreshes. Thought it was a small boat at first ...... and then I thought seal ....... and then I remembered I'd been wrong several times already in the course of this thread ...... so thought I'd better say nowt! Whatever it is it doesn't move despite the fast flowing current. (and yes, the occasional seal has visited York before!)

Cat B - although I have seen it described as exceeding Cat C & B. It is one of Peter Nicolls range of FCN Seagoing Motor Barges http://www.steelboats.com/widebeam_barges/FCN_barge.htm Definitions of Boat Design Categories. ‘A’ OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, and vessels largely self-sufficient. ‘B’ OFFSHORE: Designed for offshore voyages where conditions up to, and including, wind force 8 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 4 m may be experienced. ‘C’ INSHORE: Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers where conditions up to, and including, wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 2 m may be experienced. ‘D’ SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small bays, small lakes, rivers and canals when conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 0.3 m may be experienced, with occasional waves of 0.5 m maximum height, for example from passing vessels.

I suspect he's got a lot to answer for!

River Ouse at Viking Recorder - just above the Ouse Bridge seen on the webcam Last updated 19:00 on 28/11/2012 Summary The river level at Viking Recorder is 4.42 metres. This measurement was recorded at 19:00 on 28/11/2012. The typical river level range for this location is between 0.05 metres and 1.90 metres. The highest river level recorded at this location is 5.40 metres and the river level reached 4.47 metres on 23/01/2008. (And by Matty40's reckoning the level reached 5.1 in September of this year) The current level is down about 6" below the max of last night.

Water level appears to have peaked and even dropped - by 0.01 metres - according to EA Viking Recorder.

That's a 60' x 12' fat narrowboat, just one year old, Piper pedigree with less than 100 hours on the engine. It's just the blue water gizmos that made my mind boggle!

But in a Cat D vessel? (RCD spec: Significant wave height = 300mm max & wind no greater than Force 3). Pretty limiting up here in Scotland. We Cat D boats like to keep our banks very much in sight!

Fairy nuff! But to be serious, it looks like a very nice boat at what is possibly a good price for an almost new, no-expense-spared 60' Piper. It's just that these gizmos somewhat jumped out at me, ambushing the rest of the spec STS.

My memory (backed up by the view through the hatch) is that canals and rivers have banks to tell you where you are - and they can very often be used to help take you where you want to go!