Dealing with boatyard/contractors

[TheWilk]

Previous saga here

 

So after an expensive, stressful and time consuming summer, I was told almost a week ago (last Tuesday) my boat needs replating. On Friday I was given a quote over the phone and told the work could go ahead straight away, but I asked to first be emailed a quote with a full breakdown of costs. I'm still waiting for that email, I'm just about to phone to chase it up.

 

I'm about to spend a lot of money here and yet I have very little confidence and feel I have very little bargaining power. I'm all too aware of how jobs can go over budget and beyond schedule. I live on my boat and I need it back as soon as possible, and I certainly don't have a bottomless pit of cash.

 

Does anyone have any advice about how I can cover my back in anyway? They've got me where they want me really, the boat has been in the boatyard since June and there's a crane there, so it will likely always be the cheapest option to do the work in situ rather than add the cost of transportation to a boat builder.

[smileypete]

Had a look at the photos on facebook, doesn't look great TBH, a few deep pits here and there but I bet there are more than a few similar boats like that which are still afloat.

 

I guess the deeper were pits filled in by the welder, and judged not to be satisfactory. Given the track record with the surveyor and welders I'd be inclined to just black it and put it back in the water, fit a couple of decent automatic bilge pumps, and fit a galvanic isolator if using a a shoreline.

 

Then next time it's out for blacking find a capable surveyor with a ultrasound tester to just check out the all iffy areas, and hopefully by then you'll have picked up some good contacts for people who can weld to a good standard.

 

If you go ahead with the replate now the risk is that it takes longer and isn't done to a good standard, and other areas suddenly are judged to need welding

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[TheWilk]

I'm hoping to sell up as soon as possible, and I've been told it's not a good idea to put it back in the water as is. The first welder actually made matters worse, I think he even knocked through the baseplate in places.

Also, just remembered, they told me they were going to fix plates onto the baseplate, then drill holes into them and fill them with weld. I know nothing about welding but does that sound legit to everyone?

Edited September 23, 2013 by TheWilk

[smileypete]

If the first welder has really made a hash of it I'd see if another second welder can just fix up what the first welder did, so the boat can go back into the water for now and get sold.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[TheWilk]

If the first welder has really made a hash of it I'd see if another second welder can just fix up what the first welder did, so the boat can go back into the water for now and get sold.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

That's exactly what I asked a second welder to do, however he and my surveyor looked at it together and decided the only solution was overplating.

 

I'm waiting for my insurers to return my call to see what they advise.

[smileypete]

Well, before spending 3k I would most certainly get a second opinion paid or otherwise, from another surveyor and/or welder that has no association with the boatyard or the current surveyor/welder.

 

If you have deeeeep rust pits then it does show that there's at least some thickness to the surrounding metal , so maybe not a lost cause.

 

If the boat is going to get welded in some way or another then why not drill a few holes both through the deeper pits and elsewhere, then you can see for yourself exactly how thick the metal is, no real need for a ££££ ultrasound hull survey right off the bat.

 

OR even just hit the suspect areas firmly with a larger 'ball pein' hammer (google), if the metal doesn't dent then there should be no less than a few mm there.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited September 23, 2013 by smileypete

[Alastair]

Also, just remembered, they told me they were going to fix plates onto the baseplate, then drill holes into them and fill them with weld. I know nothing about welding but does that sound legit to everyone?

That is the correct method of overplating.

 

If they don't do the 'drill and fill' bit, then the overplates are only attached around the edges. The extra welding at the holes makes the 'whole' thing stronger.

[Richard10002]

I'm hoping to sell up as soon as possible, and I've been told it's not a good idea to put it back in the water as is. The first welder actually made matters worse, I think he even knocked through the baseplate in places.

Also, just remembered, they told me they were going to fix plates onto the baseplate, then drill holes into them and fill them with weld. I know nothing about welding but does that sound legit to everyone?

If the welder was able to knock through the base plate, it must have been pretty thin, and probably needed knocking out to get back to some thicker stuff.

 

If I were you, I would contact Steve Hands at Hands on Marine, and pay him to travel to wherever you are, (Liverpool?), and give you his opinion on what is wrong, and what is the best solution. I think most people here would suggest that, whatever he says, is the correct answer and solution. It would also be worth asking him if he could monitor/manage the repair for you.

 

He's not next door, but he is repeatedly recommended here when a recommendation is asked for. He did my survey and everything he said, (good and bad), has turned out to be exactly the case over my 2 years of ownership.

 

There might an equally well regarded surveyor close to you, or the one you have used may be well regarded!

[TheWilk]

That is the correct method of overplating.

 

If they don't do the 'drill and fill' bit, then the overplates are only attached around the edges. The extra welding at the holes makes the 'whole' thing stronger.

 

Thanks! Unfortunately I've lost all trust in everyone who's dealt with my boat this summer.

If the welder was able to knock through the base plate, it must have been pretty thin, and probably needed knocking out to get back to some thicker stuff.

 

If I were you, I would contact Steve Hands at Hands on Marine, and pay him to travel to wherever you are, (Liverpool?), and give you his opinion on what is wrong, and what is the best solution. I think most people here would suggest that, whatever he says, is the correct answer and solution. It would also be worth asking him if he could monitor/manage the repair for you.

 

He's not next door, but he is repeatedly recommended here when a recommendation is asked for. He did my survey and everything he said, (good and bad), has turned out to be exactly the case over my 2 years of ownership.

 

There might an equally well regarded surveyor close to you, or the one you have used may be well regarded!

 

Thanks, I'll look into that if I can't find anyone closer.

[frangar]

Get in touch with mike carter....he's based in northwich so not too far away

 

http://www.marinesurveysltd.co.uk/

 

See what he has to say then take it fom there....given how you feel and what you have said I don't think another opinion will hurt.

 

No connection apart from a satisfied customer

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[TheWilk]

So it turns out the completed survey has been waiting for me for at least a month, dunno I how I was supposed to know that but whatever...

 

I've just spoken to the surveyor and he said he thought my boat sat pretty low in the water already and was concerned how the extra plating (it's getting OVERplated, not replated, my bad) would affect that, does anyone have any anecdotal evidence about this?

 

I've also finally got my written quotation for the overplating work. It doesn't include the fees I'm paying for being in the boatyard (£45 a week). I've asked for those to be frozen as it's taken them two weeks to even get this far. Is there any way I can cover my back so they can't demand any more than the quote? I feel like I don't have a leg to stand on here.

[madcat]

I can recommend Mike Carter, did my hull survey last year.

 

Is there anybody who can give Wilk a hand and a bit of back up, if we were still in Formby then Boris and I would have helped if we could. Boris being a chartered engineer comes in handy sometimes

[smileypete]

As others say I'd strongly recommend getting a second independent opinion on the overplating before spending a few K.

 

Having them to agree and then check how the work has been done to a good standard would also be very worthwhile.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited September 28, 2013 by smileypete

[TheWilk]

I can recommend Mike Carter, did my hull survey last year.

 

Is there anybody who can give Wilk a hand and a bit of back up, if we were still in Formby then Boris and I would have helped if we could. Boris being a chartered engineer comes in handy sometimes

 

Thanks, that's really thoughtful! At this point I just really need good advice because I'm out on a limb and don't know who to trust. But I can totally see that the hull does need overplating, speaking to the surveyor today he was trying to be helpful by suggesting the cheapest way around and it just hasn't worked out that way, he said he's spoken to a couple of other welders about filling in the pits, they've had a look and none of them want to touch it.

[Psycloud]

So it turns out the completed survey has been waiting for me for at least a month, dunno I how I was supposed to know that but whatever...

 

I've just spoken to the surveyor and he said he thought my boat sat pretty low in the water already and was concerned how the extra plating (it's getting OVERplated, not replated, my bad) would affect that, does anyone have any anecdotal evidence

We once looked at a boat that needed overplating and the surveyor did point out that the boat already sat low and the extra weight of the new steel would mean the waste outlets, deck/locker drain holes and other orrifices would be dangerously low, especially if using on a river.

[Alastair]

Remove some ballast?

[Ally]

A friend of ours bought a Colecraft boat that sat low, he had it overplated and it sat VERY low after. He hadn't realised till he found water in his bathroom cupboard. We took a look and the outlet was underwater, and the way the plumbing was run meant it was gently lapping in. We removed a load of ballast. He still sits low but is dry now, we managed to get the outlets above the waterline by about 3". Not ideal but better. Mind you, he does have a 70' library in there, so that doesn't help!!

[TheWilk]

Right, I'm at my wits end now!

 

I instructed them to go ahead with the overplating 10 days ago and the work was due for completion TODAY but the metal is still on order.

 

They phoned me today with a story that the metal is on order but because it comes "in rolls" (6mm) it has to be flattened out and that means it'll now be two weeks til the work is done.

 

Now my very first job about 16 years ago was for a sheet metal merchant so I know that metal that thick coming in a roll is ridiculous. I mean, surely EVERYBODY knows that? I'm going to ask to inspect the metal as soon as it arrives (and try and drag along a male of the species who can at least ACT as though he knows something about metal because I can only assume it's my gender that screams MUG at them).

 

As usual, advice welcome. I'm thinking a chat with Trading Standards in on the cards.

[PaddingtonBear]

They are right I am affraid, sheet metal of this type usually comes in a coil (roll) and has to be decoiled to get it to flat plate. I think your biggest problem is that you are unused to 'boatyard time' everything takes two or three times longer that quoted and............ I wont say the last bit, it might tip you over the edge:) Keep smiling though, you have lots of support on here.

[rover220]

having worked at a few yards and been part of several rebottom jobs, ive never seen steel come in coiled, always done in one sheet of flat in my experience

[Batavia]

having worked at a few yards and been part of several rebottom jobs, ive never seen steel come in coiled, always done in one sheet of flat in my experience

Steel is delivered to large stockholders in coils, and they uncoil it prior to selling it on. Some boat builders are very selective as to who does the uncoiling, since if it is not done well, the plates will have ripples and the coil ends will be peculiar (not really an issue if the steel is to be used for over-plating, but more significant if you want mirror finish cabin sides!).

 

Chris G

Edited October 11, 2013 by Batavia

[Machpoint005]

When I were a lad, sheet steel was anything up to 1/8 inch (10 gauge or 3mm) -- anything thicker was plate, and was therefore delivered as such. Why would you coil up a length of plate when it's so difficult to flatten it out again?

[TheWilk]

I've just looked back at their original quote:

 

 

Supply 8 no sheets of 6mm marine grade steel 9 sheets £96.00 £912.00

 

Anyone spot the mistake(s)?

 

I've been on the phone to the steel merchants I used to work for to get a quote for myself. The steel comes in 6'x3' plates. It's a big warehouse and I've never seen coils of metal of that thickness. Thin stuff for pressing and moulding, yeah, but not plate.

[Offcumden]

I've just looked back at their original quote:

 

 

Supply 8 no sheets of 6mm marine grade steel 9 sheets £96.00 £912.00

 

Anyone spot the mistake(s)?

VAT @ 20% ?

[TheWilk]

VAT @ 20% ?

 

No, the VAT is added on at the end.