Gas fridge freezer on a boat.

[Scooby]

We are liveaboards and currently have a battery eating 12v powered fridge/freezer, our current one is a waeco 80 litre about 4 years old, always seams to come on all the time, can anyone recommend other options ie gas fridge.

[lexicon]

what kind of consumption figures are you getting?

 

do you know the wattage of the appliance?

 

and if you wish to fit a gas fridge do you have space etc to arrange flue etc?

[Scooby]

what kind of consumption figures are you getting?

 

do you know the wattage of the appliance?

 

and if you wish to fit a gas fridge do you have space etc to arrange flue etc?

 

Dont know if i have space for flue or vent, i think the fridge is 5 amp/h obviusoly at startup not average wondering if maybe more efficeint electric fridge would be better, we dont have electric hookup.

[lexicon]

well 5 amp seems high.

from the research on fridges i have done the shoreline ranges tend to be closer to 2 amp so would cut down a bit?

 

do you have any solar?

[smileypete]

We are liveaboards and currently have a battery eating 12v powered fridge/freezer, our current one is a waeco 80 litre about 4 years old, always seams to come on all the time, can anyone recommend other options ie gas fridge.

Does the black condenser grid at the back get hot when it's running? Also how much ventilation is there around it?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Scooby]

I have now checked the internet for wattage etc on our fridge and it seams 2.2 amps on average(saying 50 watts, to me thats like our telly being on all day), a shoreline seams to be about 1- 1.2amps so thats like half of ours, should i go for a shoreline instead, the fridge we have now is under the worktop enclosed, but i have put 2 small vents in to help it out but still constantly comes on at least every 30 minutes. Its doing my head in on a night. If i could get a gas fridge i would be not really possible on our boat.

 

Ps we do have 200 watts solar power but wont be getting much now but a month ago was good. I have replaced the batteries today cos we knew they were ruined because we werent charging properly but has now been sorted, i just dont want to spoil the batteries, we been buying them every year so far.

[MtB]

Dont know if i have space for flue or vent, i think the fridge is 5 amp/h <snip>

 

Biting my tongue....

 

Oh can't resist. Manufacturers stating Amps per hour is meaningless rubbish, from a technical POV. An Amp is a measure of current flowing. The current flows when the compressor is running, and doesn't flow when the compressor is OFF. The Amps don't accumulate as time passes, so "Amps per hour" is a meaningless term.

 

My best guess is the manufacturers mean that over a one hour period, the average current will be 5 Amps. I.e if the compressor runs 50% of the time, it draws 10A when running and 0A when off, averaging 5 Amps over any given whole hour.

 

Anyone got a better explanation? I'd be very happy to be authoritatively corrected on this!

 

MtB

Edited November 12, 2012 by Mike the Boilerman

[Justme]

Or over a period of one hour it will use 5 ah.

 

That does seem very high & would be 125ah per day.

[smileypete]

... the fridge we have now is under the worktop enclosed, but i have put 2 small vents in to help it out but still constantly comes on at least every 30 minutes. Its doing my head in on a night. If i could get a gas fridge i would be not really possible on our boat.

 

Try pulling it out, see if the grid at the back gets warm, then have a fan blowing on it and see if the run time drops. Also a fridge/freezer thermometer would tell if the thermostat is running it too cold.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited November 12, 2012 by smileypete

[alan_fincher]

I.e if the compressor runs 50% of the time, it draws 10A when running and 0A when off, averaging 5 Amps over any given whole hour.

Unless it is a very inefficient one, that would be very big numbers for a typical compressor fridge I think, though.

 

Usually quoted as drawing more like 4 amps running, but off at least half the time, bringing it down to no worse than 2 amps.

 

I think we need to know exactly what is on the data plate.

 

I think the problem with going the gas route might be if Scooby wants a significant freezer capability instead of (mostly) fridge. Although there are Dometic models with seperate freezer compartments, unless you have a very big unit, my memory is the freezer part is very small. Certainly in the small unit we have on Chalice, there is only a very small freezer compartment.

 

Bought new gas fridges now seem to be silly money.

[MtB]

Or over a period of one hour it will use 5 ah.

 

Thanks!

 

But in that case the correct notation for the manufacturers to use would be Amp-hours per hour. in this case, 5 Amp-hours per hour. Perfect sense technically.

 

Maybe they use Amps per hour because non-technical punters ask too many questions when they use Amp-hours per hour!

 

MtB

[Paul C]

Thanks!

 

But in that case the correct notation for the manufacturers to use would be Amp-hours per hour. in this case, 5 Amp-hours per hour. Perfect sense technically.

 

Maybe they use Amps per hour because non-technical punters ask too many questions when they use Amp-hours per hour!

 

MtB

 

 

I'm not sure any fridge manufacturers quote figures in amps per hour. People might post things with those units, but its probably just down to a misquote of the actual units involved.

[alan_fincher]

Thanks!

 

But in that case the correct notation for the manufacturers to use would be Amp-hours per hour. in this case, 5 Amp-hours per hour. Perfect sense technically.

 

Maybe they use Amps per hour because non-technical punters ask too many questions when they use Amp-hours per hour!

 

MtB

OP said Waeco 80 litre, and there is an advert for one here.

 

Don't know if that's it, (or similar), but it will be something like.

 

They actually quote amp-hours per hour, (Ah/h), Mike!

 

Current consumption:

1.8 Ah/h at +25°C ambient temperature,

2.1 Ah/h at +32°C ambient temperature,

both at +5°C interior temperature and -18°C in the freezer compartment

 

So in round numbers, my guess was about right 2 Ah/h or 48 Ah/day.

 

I know it has been said that sort of number can be as much as half of some people's daily power usage.

 

It would take a fully charged 100Ah battery down to 50% charged in a day, meaning at least one of your batteries is dedicated just to powering the fridge.

 

(I'm remembering why I like gas fridges, now!....)

[Scooby]

OP said Waeco 80 litre, and there is an advert for one here.

 

Don't know if that's it, (or similar), but it will be something like.

 

They actually quote amp-hours per hour, (Ah/h), Mike!

 

 

 

So in round numbers, my guess was about right 2 Ah/h or 48 Ah/day.

 

I know it has been said that sort of number can be as much as half of some people's daily power usage.

 

It would take a fully charged 100Ah battery down to 50% charged in a day, meaning at least one of your batteries is dedicated just to powering the fridge.

 

(I'm remembering why I like gas fridges, now!....)

 

 

 

Thats the one alan, its drawing loads of power due to the position of it, its in a kind of boxed wooden cupboard i have put 2 vents in the cupboard to help it out but you can imagine its pulling in all the hot air from in the boat, i wondering if a shoreline might be more efficient power wise, or spend a little more and get an isotherm one which has an asu built onto it which holds extra power for when you disconnect from 240v to 12v it tries to use lower power for as long as it can.

 

Due to us having a towpath mooring and livingaboard we are out during the day and the batteries low due to the fridge, in the summer its fine because of the solar, i fitted 5 new 110 amp batteries yesterday and dont want to fry these new ones yet again, although we do charge up better now we have an alternator booster, and when we charging we also use the travelpower.

 

Heres what i have thought about buying, as i think gas is not an option for us.

 

http://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/fridges/narrow-fridges/narrow-rr5010w

 

or the isotherm with asu.

 

http://www.norfolkmarine.co.uk/shop-online/isotherm-1103g-cruise-100l-eutectic-1010003-p-4331.html

[sueb]

My under the work surface gas fridge has a freezer compartment that goes across the top of the fridge and is more than adequate for our needs

[Scooby]

My under the work surface gas fridge has a freezer compartment that goes across the top of the fridge and is more than adequate for our needs

 

But is it ventalated, excuse the spelling.

[mrsmelly]

My under the work surface gas fridge has a freezer compartment that goes across the top of the fridge and is more than adequate for our needs

 

Gas fridges are definately the best, you seem to have the model my old pal has and its the way to go. I have leccy at the moment as it was on the boat but should I go cc ing again I would deff prefer gas again.

 

Tim

[Scooby]

Thats the one alan, its drawing loads of power due to the position of it, its in a kind of boxed wooden cupboard i have put 2 vents in the cupboard to help it out but you can imagine its pulling in all the hot air from in the boat, i wondering if a shoreline might be more efficient power wise, or spend a little more and get an isotherm one which has an asu built onto it which holds extra power for when you disconnect from 240v to 12v it tries to use lower power for as long as it can.

 

Due to us having a towpath mooring and livingaboard we are out during the day and the batteries low due to the fridge, in the summer its fine because of the solar, i fitted 5 new 110 amp batteries yesterday and dont want to fry these new ones yet again, although we do charge up better now we have an alternator booster, and when we charging we also use the travelpower.

 

Heres what i have thought about buying, as i think gas is not an option for us.

 

http://www.shoreline.../narrow-rr5010w

 

or the isotherm with asu.

 

http://www.norfolkma...003-p-4331.html

[Tony Brooks]

Thats the one alan, its drawing loads of power due to the position of it, its in a kind of boxed wooden cupboard i have put 2 vents in the cupboard to help it out but you can imagine its pulling in all the hot air from in the boat, i wondering if a shoreline might be more efficient power wise, or spend a little more and get an isotherm one which has an asu built onto it which holds extra power for when you disconnect from 240v to 12v it tries to use lower power for as long as it can.

 

Due to us having a towpath mooring and livingaboard we are out during the day and the batteries low due to the fridge, in the summer its fine because of the solar, i fitted 5 new 110 amp batteries yesterday and dont want to fry these new ones yet again, although we do charge up better now we have an alternator booster, and when we charging we also use the travelpower.

 

Heres what i have thought about buying, as i think gas is not an option for us.

 

http://www.shoreline.../narrow-rr5010w

 

or the isotherm with asu.

 

http://www.norfolkma...003-p-4331.html

 

 

I think that you will find all makes of 12V fridge draw similar current and that is because there are only two makers of the compressors and control gear. On some fridges Waeco fit a "computer" fan to blow air through the evaporator so that may draw another 0.3 amps when the fridge is running.

 

Unless you comply with the fitting instructions and allow adequate ventilations (I seem to remember a gap of 1" to sides and top any 12v fridge will run more that it needs and you may find a gas fridge does not cool enough unless you address the ventilation issue.

 

The best advice I can give is to cut a long hole in the floor below the evaporator so cool air can be draw up form the bilge and then get adequate ventilation at the top. If that does not improve matters fit couple of 12v DC computer fans over the hole and wired in series, fed from the fridges control box. That should give you minimum run times.

[Scooby]

I think that you will find all makes of 12V fridge draw similar current and that is because there are only two makers of the compressors and control gear. On some fridges Waeco fit a "computer" fan to blow air through the evaporator so that may draw another 0.3 amps when the fridge is running.

 

Unless you comply with the fitting instructions and allow adequate ventilations (I seem to remember a gap of 1" to sides and top any 12v fridge will run more that it needs and you may find a gas fridge does not cool enough unless you address the ventilation issue.

 

The best advice I can give is to cut a long hole in the floor below the evaporator so cool air can be draw up form the bilge and then get adequate ventilation at the top. If that does not improve matters fit couple of 12v DC computer fans over the hole and wired in series, fed from the fridges control box. That should give you minimum run times.

 

That sounds like a good idea, gunna try that first and see if it helps, drill holes in the floor and block the vents off. If it dont work i can always sort it as i run a laser cutting machine at work.

[Tony Brooks]

That sounds like a good idea, gunna try that first and see if it helps, drill holes in the floor and block the vents off. If it dont work i can always sort it as i run a laser cutting machine at work.

 

 

You will still need a high level vent along the top of the fridge to let the hot air out. At least a 1" gap along the top of the fridge or the equivalent area vents on either side.

[Scooby]

You will still need a high level vent along the top of the fridge to let the hot air out. At least a 1" gap along the top of the fridge or the equivalent area vents on either side.

 

Done the holes in the floor, seams to be a gel type seal under the wood floor about 3 inch below so left that alone, so currently have 2 vents at the top of the fridge, the rear of the fridge at the top is where all the cooling stuff is with a grill thingy and a fan built it, it was full of dust which has now been sorted, we have one vent at the back of the fridge at the top near the fan but thats where backs of to our dinnete is so gets blocked a bit by the cushion, and another vent to the side which isnt blocked, will have to see what happens now.

 

Done the holes in the floor, seams to be a gel type seal under the wood floor about 3 inch below so left that alone, so currently have 2 vents at the top of the fridge, the rear of the fridge at the top is where all the cooling stuff is with a grill thingy and a fan built it, it was full of dust which has now been sorted, we have one vent at the back of the fridge at the top near the fan but thats where backs of to our dinnete is so gets blocked a bit by the cushion, and another vent to the side which isnt blocked, will have to see what happens now.

 

Might be an idea to block the side vent maybe, cos thats not near the fan and might let the cold air out but mainly let hot air in.

[Scooby]

Done the holes in the floor, seams to be a gel type seal under the wood floor about 3 inch below so left that alone, so currently have 2 vents at the top of the fridge, the rear of the fridge at the top is where all the cooling stuff is with a grill thingy and a fan built it, it was full of dust which has now been sorted, we have one vent at the back of the fridge at the top near the fan but thats where backs of to our dinnete is so gets blocked a bit by the cushion, and another vent to the side which isnt blocked, will have to see what happens now.

 

 

 

Might be an idea to block the side vent maybe, cos thats not near the fan and might let the cold air out but mainly let hot air in.

 

There is also a 3 inch piece of wood at the top of the front of the fridge, so i could turn that into a vent like you say to let the air out.

Great ideas keep em coming. I will be on autocad in the morning all the vents will be made in under 10 minutes lol, Company perks i love em.

[Phil Ambrose]

Biting my tongue....

 

Oh can't resist. Manufacturers stating Amps per hour is meaningless rubbish, from a technical POV. An Amp is a measure of current flowing. The current flows when the compressor is running, and doesn't flow when the compressor is OFF. The Amps don't accumulate as time passes, so "Amps per hour" is a meaningless term.

 

My best guess is the manufacturers mean that over a one hour period, the average current will be 5 Amps. I.e if the compressor runs 50% of the time, it draws 10A when running and 0A when off, averaging 5 Amps over any given whole hour.

 

Anyone got a better explanation? I'd be very happy to be authoritatively corrected on this!

 

MtB

 

It does'nt matter how you dress it up, amp/hrs gives everybody an idea of how much drain on the battery bank a particular bit of kit will take.

 

We have an under counter fridge and a under counter freezer, both Shoreline and we use about 48amp/hrs in every 24. Should have said we do live aboard

 

Phil

[sueb]

But is it ventalated, excuse the spelling.

It ventalates into the boat with a gap at the sides and back