Photos: Bingley Five Rise Locks - Walk thru

[Robbo]

Note it's open again tomorrow (Sunday 29th), see link for details http://waterwaynews.blogspot.com/2012/01/bw-canal-open-days.html

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 9 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 7 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 6 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 5 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 4 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 3 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 2 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 10 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 8 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

 

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 12 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

Edited January 29, 2012 by Robbo

[Guest]

Nice set of pictures Robbo,

 

I guess we can look forward to our next descent not involving gallons of water on the counter and in the engine bilge/tray....

 

(everybody should do the Five rise at least once)

[magpie patrick]

Great pictures, and worth comparing with those taken about a century ago, although I can't find those on the internet

 

What is a shame though (and perhaps it's only me that thinks so) is to see that the gates and gate paddle gear these days bear little resemblance to that used historically, the buffer boards have been left off the gates, and the paddles look to be the neutered clone rack and pinion gear found almost everywhere, I had hoped that Bingley being a listed structure it might have escaped this fate.

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2012 by magpie patrick

[Pluto]

Great pictures, and worth comparing with those taken about a century ago, although I can't find those on the internet

 

What is a shame though (and perhaps it's only me that thinks so) is to see that the gates and gate paddle gear these days bear little resemblance to that used historically, the buffer boards have been left off the gates, and the paddles look to be the neutered clone rack and pinion gear found almost everywhere, I had hoped that Bingley being a listed structure it might have escaped this fate.

 

 

These are the gate fittings which were fitted historically. Listing usually means that things have to be kept in the form they were at the time of listing. At Barrowford, they wanted to keep steel gates, as they had been used at the time of listing. Note in this photo that there were a number of features to prevent ropes from catching.

 

[magpie patrick]

These are the gate fittings which were fitted historically. Listing usually means that things have to be kept in the form they were at the time of listing. At Barrowford, they wanted to keep steel gates, as they had been used at the time of listing. Note in this photo that there were a number of features to prevent ropes from catching.

 

 

Agreed, variance from the time of listing needs listed building consent: Bingley were listed in 1966...

 

As you suggest listing can be a nuisance when things are restored, as they may be listed in their altered or ruined state

[Titus]

A good day was had by all, hopefully next time we'll be in our boat though.

 

 

 

 

 

Dave

[Robbo]

A good day was had by all, hopefully next time we'll be in our boat though.

 

It's well worth the visit, apparently 3488 people were counted through today...

[Guest]

Gates made just up the road at Stanley Ferry too....

 

Nice one..

[Robbo]

Gates made just up the road at Stanley Ferry too....

 

There having an open day on Saturday Feb 11th as well.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Robbo

[magpie patrick]

A good day was had by all, hopefully next time we'll be in our boat though.

 

 

Dave

 

Looking at that, at least they've got the balance beams right, but why do we just sit back and accept ripping out prime exhibits in the only true waterways museum that exists? For heavens sake most of the metalwork for the old paddles could be transferred to new gates

 

Sorry, it makes me cross. Me being cross is why the Cotswold Canals are being restored with as-near-as-we-can-manage-consistent-with-safety original paddle gear. I didn't design it, someone else deserves that accolade, but I insisted on it as a condition for funding.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

The problem with true traditional gear is that what is good for a full width full length short boat on trip money and an experienced crew ( Jo Briggs claimed to have moved 50 ton of sugar from Liverpool to Leeds in 52 hours during the war) is a disaster for inexperienced leisure boaters on narrow boats.

[Guest]

The problem with true traditional gear is that what is good for a full width full length short boat on trip money and an experienced crew ( Jo Briggs claimed to have moved 50 ton of sugar from Liverpool to Leeds in 52 hours during the war) is a disaster for inexperienced leisure boaters on narrow boats.

 

Not with standing of course that on 5 rise the locks are operated by and under the supervision of the lockies...so it does seem a shame they couldn't fit the trad stuff...

[Titus]

Looking at that, at least they've got the balance beams right, but why do we just sit back and accept ripping out prime exhibits in the only true waterways museum that exists? For heavens sake most of the metalwork for the old paddles could be transferred to new gates

 

Sorry, it makes me cross. Me being cross is why the Cotswold Canals are being restored with as-near-as-we-can-manage-consistent-with-safety original paddle gear. I didn't design it, someone else deserves that accolade, but I insisted on it as a condition for funding.

 

 

There was alot of the old metal work (paddles etc) stacked at the side of the locks yesterday so maybe they're putting it back on, if not I'd have thought it would have been removed by now !

 

Dave

[Pluto]

Looking at that, at least they've got the balance beams right, but why do we just sit back and accept ripping out prime exhibits in the only true waterways museum that exists? For heavens sake most of the metalwork for the old paddles could be transferred to new gates

 

Sorry, it makes me cross. Me being cross is why the Cotswold Canals are being restored with as-near-as-we-can-manage-consistent-with-safety original paddle gear. I didn't design it, someone else deserves that accolade, but I insisted on it as a condition for funding.

One of the interesting features of L&LC paddle gear is that, although there were some standard types, each workshop along the canal seemed also to have its own particular style. There are at least four styles of ground paddle, and four styles of gate paddle which date to pre-nationalisation. Within those styles are ones which, with minor adaption, are perfectly suitable for modern amateur operation, while one or two of the others are more difficult for the inexperienced. The one feature they all had was the ability to close the paddle quickly, something which some modern types lack, to the detriment of safety.

 

I have suggested on many occasions to BW engineering and heritage staff, that a few locks, mainly those where there are lock keepers, should be restored as they were at specific dates. Not only would this, with suitable interpretation, add interest to visitors by both land and water, but it could also be used for filming, offering sites as representative of the canal at a specific date. I can't see that it would add much to the cost as the necessary information is around. I have written reports on the paddle gear on the Rochdale, and on lock gates nationally, which have identified sources of information in the archives. It just needs an organisation which is primarily concerned with conservation and education, the two keystones of charitable status.

[Robbo]

Just added another photo...

 

Bingley Five Rise Locks - 12 by Robbo-312, on Flickr

[Janet S]

There are at least four styles of ground paddle

 

...and Greenberfield Locks is a prime example.

 

No wonder new hirers get confused!

 

Janet

Edited January 29, 2012 by Janet S

[magpie patrick]

One of the interesting features of L&LC paddle gear is that, although there were some standard types, each workshop along the canal seemed also to have its own particular style. There are at least four styles of ground paddle, and four styles of gate paddle which date to pre-nationalisation. Within those styles are ones which, with minor adaption, are perfectly suitable for modern amateur operation, while one or two of the others are more difficult for the inexperienced. The one feature they all had was the ability to close the paddle quickly, something which some modern types lack, to the detriment of safety.

 

I have suggested on many occasions to BW engineering and heritage staff, that a few locks, mainly those where there are lock keepers, should be restored as they were at specific dates. Not only would this, with suitable interpretation, add interest to visitors by both land and water, but it could also be used for filming, offering sites as representative of the canal at a specific date. I can't see that it would add much to the cost as the necessary information is around. I have written reports on the paddle gear on the Rochdale, and on lock gates nationally, which have identified sources of information in the archives. It just needs an organisation which is primarily concerned with conservation and education, the two keystones of charitable status.

 

 

In fact, someone inventive could probably attract grant funding for authentic gear which would reduce the overall cost to the navigation authority.

 

The problem with true traditional gear is that what is good for a full width full length short boat on trip money and an experienced crew ( Jo Briggs claimed to have moved 50 ton of sugar from Liverpool to Leeds in 52 hours during the war) is a disaster for inexperienced leisure boaters on narrow boats.

 

This is a bit of an odd statement: some designs of paddle gear probably are intrinsically less safe, ones that require the operator to lean over the water, and arguably ones that need you to stand on the gates. I would have thought as well that Leeds and Liverpool ground paddle gear, which is next to the water and requires the operator to face the canal, is less safe than say Trent and Mersey gear which is set back from the edge is operated by facing parallel to the canal. The "horns" on some of those ground paddles look a bit dodgy to me as well, when we did the L&L with mum and dad as kids, the standard way of dropping paddles with "horns" seemed to be to yank hard on the horns and use gravity, you wouldn't want to get in the way, and yet they survive, so I don't think the loss of the local gate paddle gear along the L&L is down to safety, I think it's down to gates being changed every 20-30 years and BW in the past not appreciating what they were throwing in the skip.

 

Since this thread started I have heard that the surviving historic gate paddle gear at Bingley is being refurbished and put back on the new gates

[Derek R.]

The last line of Patricks mail is good news. With regard to safe working, though I have not experienced all types of gear throughout the UK, those on the River Wey when we boated there in 1982 seemed positively frightening. I'll never forget the surprise I felt when standing on a small piece of wood to operate the long swing windlass of some gate paddles. In comparison, the Southern GU was all efficiency and delight.

 

The Shroppie and T & M gear must rate as some of my favourites, and the variety on the L & L was fascinating, though the later fitted (I think) Fenner gear with its slow action gave us some 'moments'. Less said about the Richdale Nine gear in '83 the better!

 

I find the varieties reflect different engineering solutions in given circumstances, and finding something new is all part of life's ongoing education. Similarly, bywashes and wier water can cause just as much consternation and requirement for increased vigilance and technique - It's what makes boating so fascinating.

[RichardH]

It's well worth the visit, apparently 3488 people were counted through today...

 

I reckon I missed a good opportunity to market boating holidays.....!

 

Never mind, we had a lovely walk to East Marton and sampled the beer and food with the family at the Cross Keys.

[Robbo]

I reckon I missed a good opportunity to market boating holidays.....!

 

Over the two days I believe 7,276 were counted....

[Robbo]

Video from Yorkshire Post here...

 

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/thousands_queue_for_chance_to_see_drained_five_rise_locks_1_4193275

[Titus]

I reckon I missed a good opportunity to market boating holidays.....!

 

Never mind, we had a lovely walk to East Marton and sampled the beer and food with the family at the Cross Keys.

 

 

If it makes you feel any better Richard, no-one else was there selling there wares except the cafe and a boat that I've seen regularly at Gargrave but who's name escapes me, selling painted canalware

 

Dave

[fanshaft]

In fact, someone inventive could probably attract grant funding for authentic gear which would reduce the overall cost to the navigation authority.

 

 

 

This is a bit of an odd statement: some designs of paddle gear probably are intrinsically less safe, ones that require the operator to lean over the water, and arguably ones that need you to stand on the gates. I would have thought as well that Leeds and Liverpool ground paddle gear, which is next to the water and requires the operator to face the canal, is less safe than say Trent and Mersey gear which is set back from the edge is operated by facing parallel to the canal. The "horns" on some of those ground paddles look a bit dodgy to me as well, when we did the L&L with mum and dad as kids, the standard way of dropping paddles with "horns" seemed to be to yank hard on the horns and use gravity, you wouldn't want to get in the way, and yet they survive, so I don't think the loss of the local gate paddle gear along the L&L is down to safety, I think it's down to gates being changed every 20-30 years and BW in the past not appreciating what they were throwing in the skip.

 

Since this thread started I have heard that the surviving historic gate paddle gear at Bingley is being refurbished and put back on the new gates

 

I attended on Sunday, partly to record an interview for the L&L aural history project - it seems I am now 'history'! I was impressed with the arrangements which ensured safety without the attendant 'officialese' which is often experienced these days. There were, I am told, over 7000 people over the two days, and even with a long queue for the lock tour there was general good humour, and a sense that people were having 'a good day out' in a way that has, to some extent, disappeared. I was reminded of the never-to-be-forgotten Five Rise Bi-Centenary in March 1974 when 10,000 people crowded the locks (nobody fell in), and the church bells rang as my loaded Short Boat ('Wye') entered the top lock.

 

I agree with Mike and Patrick - I was very disappointed and dismayed to see that the four new sets of lock gates had been fitted with what looked like new (or refurbished) modern paddle gear - similar to the dreaded 1970s 'Fenner' gear still found on this canal. When I asked why this was I was told 'safety' - but Three Rise Locks, next below, have been retro-fitted with the rack type gate paddles which are relatively easy and quick to open (and most importantly, to close) so this argument doesn't hold, and, as has been said, a lock keeper does much of the work anyway. Let's hope the gates are fitted with all the other bits and pieces, and that they don't leak - though they probably will. I have never understood why L&L lock gates leak so much, even new ones - it can't be because they are wide because GU lock gates, in my experience, can be relatively or very tight, especially north of Braunston.

 

Nonetheless a good effort by BW and great PR for the CRT.

 

regards

 

David L