Buying a Sailaway

[callumrexreid]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and I don't yet have a boat but I'm doing my research now and hope to enter into the world of liveaboard as soon as I feel I've soaked up enough facts that I can make a wise enough decision as to what suits me best. My first questions of course revolve around what hull/sailaway type I should go for, and for the purpose of this area of the forum what the best or most reasonable manufacturer should be? Firstly I have a fairly good idea what type I want to buy, the Blackrose 12ft by 57ft http://www.barging.co.uk/BlackRose.htm narrowboat style widebeam is looking to me to seem the perfect choice for me atm. Firstly I am fine about being consigned to the widebeam canals of the south of UK having used the www.barging.co.uk map as guide. Secondly as a liveaboard I do feel the width benefits would be a necessity for me. I work as a freelance TV Editor and I would like the option of being able to moor up in London to do some work during the winter months then CC through the summer months, any thoughts on this also welcome. I am 28 and feel that I've got enough energy in me to have a good go at fitting out a sailaway hull up to the standards and style that I have in mind. I have to say that making it my home and putting a lot of 'me' into it is a very important part of this project, and I am fully aware of how very hard this will be, but I've always enjoyed challenges. Anyway, my thoughts at the moment would be to buy a Liverpool Boats Co. sailaway lined 12ft by 60ft from them and mooring non residential poss kingston area whilst I fit her up inside over a year or so, to get her to the point I can continue fitting her up but can live in her too. all thoughts on my endeavors most appreciated and very welcome.

 

Cal

 

P.S

This forum has been a great read, so thanks for everyone for making such a useful and interesting forum.

[alan_fincher]

Your first problem will be that Liverpool Boats, as such, are no longer trading.

 

The same outfit has set up a much smaller operation, Collingwood, but there has been some doubt about the status of that company.

 

Searching for "Collingwood" on this forum should give you some info.

 

The "BlackRose" in your post is actually a boat name, rather than type. It's owned and fitted by a regular contributor on here, although I haven't noted him on for a while.

 

Alan.

[sueb]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and I don't yet have a boat but I'm doing my research now and hope to enter into the world of liveaboard as soon as I feel I've soaked up enough facts that I can make a wise enough decision as to what suits me best. My first questions of course revolve around what hull/sailaway type I should go for, and for the purpose of this area of the forum what the best or most reasonable manufacturer should be? Firstly I have a fairly good idea what type I want to buy, the Blackrose 12ft by 57ft http://www.barging.co.uk/BlackRose.htm narrowboat style widebeam is looking to me to seem the perfect choice for me atm. Firstly I am fine about being consigned to the widebeam canals of the south of UK having used the www.barging.co.uk map as guide. Secondly as a liveaboard I do feel the width benefits would be a necessity for me. I work as a freelance TV Editor and I would like the option of being able to moor up in London to do some work during the winter months then CC through the summer months, any thoughts on this also welcome. I am 28 and feel that I've got enough energy in me to have a good go at fitting out a sailaway hull up to the standards and style that I have in mind. I have to say that making it my home and putting a lot of 'me' into it is a very important part of this project, and I am fully aware of how very hard this will be, but I've always enjoyed challenges. Anyway, my thoughts at the moment would be to buy a Liverpool Boats Co. sailaway lined 12ft by 60ft from them and mooring non residential poss kingston area whilst I fit her up inside over a year or so, to get her to the point I can continue fitting her up but can live in her too. all thoughts on my endeavors most appreciated and very welcome.

 

Cal

 

P.S

This forum has been a great read, so thanks for everyone for making such a useful and interesting forum.

You will need to check the moorings in the Kingston area. Some of them on the Thames can be very short (in time) indeed. 24 and 48 hrs are common. There are long term residential and non residential moorings in Kingston. I suggest you contact the Environment Agency for details.

Sue

[callumrexreid]

Your first problem will be that Liverpool Boats, as such, are no longer trading.

 

The same outfit has set up a much smaller operation, Collingwood, but there has been some doubt about the status of that company.

 

Searching for "Collingwood" on this forum should give you some info.

 

The "BlackRose" in your post is actually a boat name, rather than type. It's owned and fitted by a regular contributor on here, although I haven't noted him on for a while.

 

Alan.

 

 

Ah.. well that will be a prob.

 

I knew that the Black Rose was the name, I just thought I'd refer to her as a good example of what I wanted.

I don't mind where I get my hull from, as long as they are similarly priced to the Liverpool boats co. i.e: 50K for sailaway lined 12ft by 60ft narrow boat style widebeam.

I would consider paying a bit more if it meant that I was getting more quality. Any advice on good hull manufacturers welcome.

 

Thanks for the prompt reply

 

Cal

 

You will need to check the moorings in the Kingston area. Some of them on the Thames can be very short (in time) indeed. 24 and 48 hrs are common. There are long term residential and non residential moorings in Kingston. I suggest you contact the Environment Agency for details.

Sue

 

Thanks Sue.. will do, good advice.

 

Cheers

Cal

[alan_fincher]

Whilst I think a shell of the right quality, at the right price, is clearly important, I would suggest that more than ever it is at least as important to research the financial stability and trading position of any builder you are considering.

 

Several shell builders have gone bottoms up recently, some known for building a good wide-beam shell.

 

It's not getting any easier to ensure that when it happens that it's your money they take with them.

 

Personally I would not consider a new build in the current economic climate, (not that I could afford it, anyway!), but obviously it's up to each individual to assess the level of risk they are prepared to live with. I would suggest unless you can find some broker selling an already completed shell, such that you get no input to the build, (e.g. window or porthole positions), then there will always be a degree of financial risk.

 

Not trying to scare you, but better to go into it knowing what can, (and sometimes does), happen.

 

Alan.

[callumrexreid]

Whilst I think a shell of the right quality, at the right price, is clearly important, I would suggest that more than ever it is at least as important to research the financial stability and trading position of any builder you are considering.

 

Several shell builders have gone bottoms up recently, some known for building a good wide-beam shell.

 

It's not getting any easier to ensure that when it happens that it's your money they take with them.

 

Personally I would not consider a new build in the current economic climate, (not that I could afford it, anyway!), but obviously it's up to each individual to assess the level of risk they are prepared to live with. I would suggest unless you can find some broker selling an already completed shell, such that you get no input to the build, (e.g. window or porthole positions), then there will always be a degree of financial risk.

 

Not trying to scare you, but better to go into it knowing what can, (and sometimes does), happen.

 

Alan.

 

 

Thanks Alan, I really appreciate sound advice, I will look into second hand more now, but I have to say I really love the black rose, and would love to find a good builder that could make one similar for me, do you have any suggestions as to what builder may be good to look at.

Cheers

Cal

[alan_fincher]

......do you have any suggestions as to what builder may be good to look at.

Not I personally, having experience neither of new builds, nor of wide beams.

 

Hopefully some will pop up who have a wide-beam from a company still trading, although the fact that Liverpool Boats are no longer producing may rule out 50% of people who may have responded. Another forum member speaks enthusiastically about his shell builder, but they went into administration. Let's see who has one by a company still trading.

[blackrose]

I've been a bit busy and don't have internet connection on the boat at the moment.

 

After seeing them at Crick last year I would recommend Amber boats http://www.amberboats.eu/ (although I don't know anything about the company's books)

 

The spec of the boats is very good, but when I saw then they only sold fully-fitted boats. In the current downturn perhaps they could be persuaded to sell you a sailaway?

[callumrexreid]

I've been a bit busy and don't have internet connection on the boat at the moment.

 

After seeing them at Crick last year I would recommend Amber boats http://www.amberboats.eu/ (although I don't know anything about the company's books)

 

The spec of the boats is very good, but when I saw then they only sold fully-fitted boats. In the current downturn perhaps they could be persuaded to sell you a sailaway?

 

 

Thanks Black Rose, will def look into that.

 

In the hopeful event that I do manage to get a sailaway of similar design and size to yours, are their any pointers you could give me, problems or benefits that having a boat such as Back Rose has given you. I read your breakdown on barging.co.uk and found it very interesting. I would be fascinated to hear first hand how you are finding living day to day life on a boat that I believe would be

exactly what I am after. A couple of my questions specifically revolve around whether you cruise with her regularly? if so how do you find the mooring situation with that size boat? And if you could would you of done anything different when fitting her out or choosing her size?

 

Thank you for replying to my previous post, I would be really grateful if you do find the time to respond to this one...

 

All the best

 

Cal

 

P.S

if you can't tell already.... love the boat!

[Gary Peacock]

You need to be very careful when looking at fat narrowboats to build correctly it isn't just a case of making it wider because the engineering to get it to pass the scantlings ISO's at much over 8' begins to change either the actual steel specs need to increase quite a bit or the amount of framing and support needs to be increased either of these equates to more steel and more work so obviously an increase in price.

 

A lot of builders tread a very fine line with scantling calculations often relying on claims of ignorance that could in reality open them up to legal action from T/S.

 

It gets quite complicated but a narrowboat doesn't really have a lot to do with boatbuilding it's more of a floating box but because of it's dimensions a very narrow beam in relation to length it will almost always pass the scantling requirement, narrowboat builders know this so I don't actually think any bother to do the calculations at all.

 

However when the boat is made broader at about 8' with the boat coming into a more expected beam to length ratio things begin to change rapidly from it can't fail to does fail big time!

 

Does it make any difference if it fails the scantlings ISO?

 

Legally yes.

 

Strength wise it will be weaker than one done correctly but without it is really poor like the well known one that collapsed when it was being craned it would probably be no worse than many already on the water for years.

 

The reality is the builder either builds them right or knowingly doesn't so some are built right many others aren't.

[callumrexreid]

You need to be very careful when looking at fat narrowboats to build correctly it isn't just a case of making it wider because the engineering to get it to pass the scantlings ISO's at much over 8' begins to change either the actual steel specs need to increase quite a bit or the amount of framing and support needs to be increased either of these equates to more steel and more work so obviously an increase in price.

 

A lot of builders tread a very fine line with scantling calculations often relying on claims of ignorance that could in reality open them up to legal action from T/S.

 

It gets quite complicated but a narrowboat doesn't really have a lot to do with boatbuilding it's more of a floating box but because of it's dimensions a very narrow beam in relation to length it will almost always pass the scantling requirement, narrowboat builders know this so I don't actually think any bother to do the calculations at all.

 

However when the boat is made broader at about 8' with the boat coming into a more expected beam to length ratio things begin to change rapidly from it can't fail to does fail big time!

 

Does it make any difference if it fails the scantlings ISO?

 

Legally yes.

 

Strength wise it will be weaker than one done correctly but without it is really poor like the well known one that collapsed when it was being craned it would probably be no worse than many already on the water for years.

 

The reality is the builder either builds them right or knowingly doesn't so some are built right many others aren't.

 

 

mmm thanks for the advice, am I right in understanding that you are saying that I must be very careful or more careful when buying a 12ft widebeam but if I am careful then It should be no problem or are you saying I shouldn't go for such a widebeam because the structural issues will be inherent in the design?

 

Thanks for your input

 

All the best

 

Cal

 

 

 

You need to be very careful when looking at fat narrowboats to build correctly it isn't just a case of making it wider because the engineering to get it to pass the scantlings ISO's at much over 8' begins to change either the actual steel specs need to increase quite a bit or the amount of framing and support needs to be increased either of these equates to more steel and more work so obviously an increase in price.

 

A lot of builders tread a very fine line with scantling calculations often relying on claims of ignorance that could in reality open them up to legal action from T/S.

 

It gets quite complicated but a narrowboat doesn't really have a lot to do with boatbuilding it's more of a floating box but because of it's dimensions a very narrow beam in relation to length it will almost always pass the scantling requirement, narrowboat builders know this so I don't actually think any bother to do the calculations at all.

 

However when the boat is made broader at about 8' with the boat coming into a more expected beam to length ratio things begin to change rapidly from it can't fail to does fail big time!

 

Does it make any difference if it fails the scantlings ISO?

 

Legally yes.

 

Strength wise it will be weaker than one done correctly but without it is really poor like the well known one that collapsed when it was being craned it would probably be no worse than many already on the water for years.

 

The reality is the builder either builds them right or knowingly doesn't so some are built right many others aren't.

 

Sorry one more thing

What prices would you do for the type of craft that I am after, ie: 12ft by 57-60ft narrowboat style widebeam sailaway lined?

 

Thanks again

 

Cal

[Gary Peacock]

If it's the general shape you like than building one correctly at 12' is not much of a problem but there are many around that are literally big narrowboats built purely using narrowboat methods too.

 

The better builders are using the simplest methods to gain compliance by increasing the thickness of the steel used in construction or adding more actual "structure" to support the hull and cabin.

 

I do find the fat narrowboat concept a bit strange even though we have built quite a few over the years a narrowboat is what it is because of the restriction it's environment of narrow shallow waters with low air draft force upon it.

 

Building a boat for a completely different environment and crippling it with narrowboat features seems very strange to me.

 

I suppose that what is actually being achieved is the building of a houseboat that can move a bit, where I would prefer a boat of that size to be a more capable boat.

 

It's probably just me that doesn't get them because there have been many built and sold over the years but I still suspect a lot is down to what many narrowboat builders were capable of building when building a barge came up in conversation.

 

I think a nice compromise might be a bit of tweaking of the hull but still sticking a narrowboat cabin on top to keep the lines especially if it was going to European waters, it wouldn't really be any more alien than a lot of the "replica" dutch barges you see that have virtually nothing in common with the real examples.

 

 

You can read how the owners of this fairly fat narrowboat spend their time cruising here-

 

http://www.moet-chandon.co.uk/

 

 

 

And how this rather different configuarations owners go on too here-

 

http://www.ross-craft.com/

 

 

This variation sits somewhere in the mid ground!

Edited March 2, 2009 by Gary Peacock

[callumrexreid]

If it's the general shape you like than building one correctly at 12' is not much of a problem but there are many around that are literally big narrowboats built purely using narrowboat methods too.

 

The better builders are using the simplest methods to gain compliance by increasing the thickness of the steel used in construction or adding more actual "structure" to support the hull and cabin.

 

I do find the fat narrowboat concept a bit strange even though we have built quite a few over the years a narrowboat is what it is because of the restriction it's environment of narrow shallow waters with low air draft force upon it.

 

Building a boat for a completely different environment and crippling it with narrowboat features seems very strange to me.

 

I suppose that what is actually being achieved is the building of a houseboat that can move a bit, where I would prefer a boat of that size to be a more capable boat.

 

It's probably just me that doesn't get them because there have been many built and sold over the years but I still suspect a lot is down to what many narrowboat builders were capable of building when building a barge came up in conversation.

 

I think a nice compromise might be a bit of tweaking of the hull but still sticking a narrowboat cabin on top to keep the lines especially if it was going to European waters, it wouldn't really be any more alien than a lot of the "replica" dutch barges you see that have virtually nothing in common with the real examples.

 

 

You can read how the owners of this fairly fat narrowboat spend their time cruising here-

 

http://www.moet-chandon.co.uk/

 

 

 

And how this rather different configuarations owners go on too here-

 

http://www.ross-craft.com/

 

 

This variation sits somewhere in the mid ground!

 

 

I am fairly new to the boat/barge community and I have to say for me personally I really like the shape and size of Black Rose http://www.barging.co.uk/BlackRose.htm, I understand that it is restricting but I have researched where it may restrict me too, and it seems that based on http://www.barging.co.uk/mapuk.htm that I will still be quite able to move around from london to Goldaming or Oxford or Bath or even Warwick with the possibility of moving further afield if they finish renovating the canals between north and south. As I mentioned earlier I am looking for something that I can be residentially moored in for a few months of the year and then perhaps move around a bit in the summer. If these are the only restrictions that you are referring to then I am happy to live with them for the added space, I am not very interested in the replica barge shape or design as I don't intend to go seafairing, and if I do decide to go to the continent I would most likely have it taken over by lorry. And if I did this it would be in view of living over there for a while. If I am missing something please let me know, I'm always eager to learn more about is fast becoming a new obsession of mine.

 

All the best

 

Cal

[alan_fincher]

I understand that it is restricting but I have researched where it may restrict me too, and it seems that based on http://www.barging.co.uk/mapuk.htm that I will still be quite able to move around from london to Goldaming or Oxford or Bath or even Warwick with the possibility of moving further afield if they finish renovating the canals between north and south.

Cal,

 

Warwick is theoretically possible, but in practice very hard.

 

Once in Northamptonshire the major tunnels at Blisworth (near Northampton) & Braunston will not allow the passing of boats over 7 feet beam.

 

Wide-beams can only navigate under special arrangements with BW to prevent traffic entering from the other end. In practice I suspect it happens almost never these days.

 

Anyway up there although the locks are broad the canal has never been widened from it's originally intended use of narrow boats, so passage would often be difficult.

 

I am not aware of any restoration or improvement plans that will permit wide-beams on southern-canals to pass via the canal network to northern canals. All locks in Birmingham are narrow, and the obvious North/South link, the Leicester section of the Grand Union has flights of narrow locks at each end of a summit level, (Watford & Foxton).

[David Schweizer]

Cal,

 

Warwick is theoretically possible, but in practice very hard.

 

Once in Northamptonshire the major tunnels at Blisworth (near Northampton) & Braunston will not allow the passing of boats over 7 feet beam.

 

Wide-beams can only navigate under special arrangements with BW to prevent traffic entering from the other end. In practice I suspect it happens almost never these days.

 

Anyway up there although the locks are broad the canal has never been widened from it's originally intended use of narrow boats, so passage would often be difficult.

 

I am not aware of any restoration or improvement plans that will permit wide-beams on southern-canals to pass via the canal network to northern canals. All locks in Birmingham are narrow, and the obvious North/South link, the Leicester section of the Grand Union has flights of narrow locks at each end of a summit level, (Watford & Foxton).

Not to mention the Blue Lias bridge at Stockton on the Northern GU (before Warwick), The hull will fit, but depending on the shape and height of the cabin there may be problems. Others who have tried it with a widebeam will be able to give more a informattive answer.

[churchward]

Cal,

 

Warwick is theoretically possible, but in practice very hard.

 

Once in Northamptonshire the major tunnels at Blisworth (near Northampton) & Braunston will not allow the passing of boats over 7 feet beam.

 

Wide-beams can only navigate under special arrangements with BW to prevent traffic entering from the other end. In practice I suspect it happens almost never these days.

 

Anyway up there although the locks are broad the canal has never been widened from it's originally intended use of narrow boats, so passage would often be difficult.

 

I am not aware of any restoration or improvement plans that will permit wide-beams on southern-canals to pass via the canal network to northern canals. All locks in Birmingham are narrow, and the obvious North/South link, the Leicester section of the Grand Union has flights of narrow locks at each end of a summit level, (Watford & Foxton).

 

I suspect you are right it is not often a wide boat goes through the two tunnels. I guess they are are at least 14ft wide since two narrowboats can pass each other in the tunnels fairly easily. I do recall a wide beam going through Braunston I think in recent years but I can't think when it was. As you say it needs special arrangement and traffic control at the exit to stop other boats going in.

[alan_fincher]

I guess they are are at least 14ft wide since two narrowboats can pass each other in the tunnels fairly easily.

Except if you are exactly at the 'S' bend kink that is near one end of Braunston, as we discovered the hard way last year.

 

Yes, they must both be well over 14 foot at the water, because there is a significant gap when you pass, (as for all the GU tunnels). I wouldn't want to take a 14' * 70' barge, or breasted 7' * 70' narrowboats through Braunston though, even if I knew nobody could come the other way.

 

It has previously been suggested on this forum that BW's approach to ensuring a wide-beam has a clear passage is to tell them to enter at 5:00 am, or similar, but to take no other actions.

 

I just hope they don't try that when the Jam 'Olers are making one of their 5.00 am starts, and travelling in the other direction!

[david and julie]

I have a friend with a 60' x 12' boat and he tells me its a real handful and not really that pleasurable for cruising.

 

Personally, I'd have a look in a 10ft wide boat and see what you think - they are still spacious - but apparently much less of a handful.

[Roger Gunkel]

Cal,

 

The choice is fairly simple, do you want a spacious home afloat, that you can also move around a fairly limited area, or do you want a boat to cruise the entire inland waterways system that you can also use as a comfortable but narrow home?

 

I think you have already reached that decision, one which we also came to when we bought our 57' x 10' sailaway. My wife and I have absolutely no regrets about our decision and we are now in our 5th year living aboard.

 

As regards a suitable builder, there are wise words already posted here. As stated, Collingwood boats have taken on a reduced production of what used to be Liverpool Boats, although there has been some ambiguity and smoke blowing regarding the status of the company. My own sailaway was basically built by LB and it is generally to a good standard with some minor reservations. Collingwoods probably still have the designs for Mike's Blackrose and our own narrower but similar design. You would need to check the company very carefully if you approach them and make sure that all contractual safeguards are on your side in the event of any problems. This would of course also apply to any boatbuilder that you choose.

 

I'm not sure about Mike's boat, but our's was marketed through the New Boat Co, who are probably still supplying widebeam sailaways from their subcontract builders.

 

If you are interested, there are pictures of our boat in our gallery on my profile.

 

Roger

[churchward]

Except if you are exactly at the 'S' bend kink that is near one end of Braunston, as we discovered the hard way last year.

 

Yes, they must both be well over 14 foot at the water, because there is a significant gap when you pass, (as for all the GU tunnels). I wouldn't want to take a 14' * 70' barge, or breasted 7' * 70' narrowboats through Braunston though, even if I knew nobody could come the other way.

 

It has previously been suggested on this forum that BW's approach to ensuring a wide-beam has a clear passage is to tell them to enter at 5:00 am, or similar, but to take no other actions.

 

I just hope they don't try that when the Jam 'Olers are making one of their 5.00 am starts, and travelling in the other direction!

 

Yes I always worry about meeting a boat a that point the kink does narrow the passage rather!

 

I will be OK if going through at 5:00am is the method as I am much more likely to be tucked up in a warm bed at that time!

[mrsmelly]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and I don't yet have a boat but I'm doing my research now and hope to enter into the world of liveaboard as soon as I feel I've soaked up enough facts that I can make a wise enough decision as to what suits me best. My first questions of course revolve around what hull/sailaway type I should go for, and for the purpose of this area of the forum what the best or most reasonable manufacturer should be? Firstly I have a fairly good idea what type I want to buy, the Blackrose 12ft by 57ft http://www.barging.co.uk/BlackRose.htm narrowboat style widebeam is looking to me to seem the perfect choice for me atm. Firstly I am fine about being consigned to the widebeam canals of the south of UK having used the www.barging.co.uk map as guide. Secondly as a liveaboard I do feel the width benefits would be a necessity for me. I work as a freelance TV Editor and I would like the option of being able to moor up in London to do some work during the winter months then CC through the summer months, any thoughts on this also welcome. I am 28 and feel that I've got enough energy in me to have a good go at fitting out a sailaway hull up to the standards and style that I have in mind. I have to say that making it my home and putting a lot of 'me' into it is a very important part of this project, and I am fully aware of how very hard this will be, but I've always enjoyed challenges. Anyway, my thoughts at the moment would be to buy a Liverpool Boats Co. sailaway lined 12ft by 60ft from them and mooring non residential poss kingston area whilst I fit her up inside over a year or so, to get her to the point I can continue fitting her up but can live in her too. all thoughts on my endeavors most appreciated and very welcome.

 

Cal

 

P.S

This forum has been a great read, so thanks for everyone for making such a useful and interesting forum.

 

Hi

 

Try Pinders they have years of experience and will build anything u want I have bought new shells from them. They will do the shell or full boat or whatever.

Regards

 

Tim

[callumrexreid]

Cal,

 

The choice is fairly simple, do you want a spacious home afloat, that you can also move around a fairly limited area, or do you want a boat to cruise the entire inland waterways system that you can also use as a comfortable but narrow home?

 

I think you have already reached that decision, one which we also came to when we bought our 57' x 10' sailaway. My wife and I have absolutely no regrets about our decision and we are now in our 5th year living aboard.

 

As regards a suitable builder, there are wise words already posted here. As stated, Collingwood boats have taken on a reduced production of what used to be Liverpool Boats, although there has been some ambiguity and smoke blowing regarding the status of the company. My own sailaway was basically built by LB and it is generally to a good standard with some minor reservations. Collingwoods probably still have the designs for Mike's Blackrose and our own narrower but similar design. You would need to check the company very carefully if you approach them and make sure that all contractual safeguards are on your side in the event of any problems. This would of course also apply to any boatbuilder that you choose.

 

I'm not sure about Mike's boat, but our's was marketed through the New Boat Co, who are probably still supplying widebeam sailaways from their subcontract builders.

 

If you are interested, there are pictures of our boat in our gallery on my profile.

 

Roger

for starters I went to look at your gallery and I found 3D anaglyph pictures....All I had to do was reach behind my computer for my anaglyph glasses that are always ready by my side, I am a massive 3D fan I have an old 1897 3D stereo viewer and fantastic pictures from the period to go with, as my previous post explains I currently work in the world of TV but this is merely a bi product of my fascination with image whether it be painting photography or film, one of my main passions is 3D so much appreciated from me..

 

Anyway thank you for your reply, do you think you may of preferred a 12ft wide craft or do you feel that 10ft meant that it was that bit easier to navigate. I guess what I mean to say is do you feel that the 2ft less beam gives you more in terms of comfort if talking about the experience as a whole i.e: both living and moving around within the limited amount of canals available to broadbeams?

 

thanks again to everyone for all their replies, very much appreciated.

 

Cal

 

 

 

Hi

 

Try Pinders they have years of experience and will build anything u want I have bought new shells from them. They will do the shell or full boat or whatever.

Regards

 

Tim

 

Thanks Tim will do..

[David Schweizer]

Except if you are exactly at the 'S' bend kink that is near one end of Braunston, as we discovered the hard way last year.

 

Yes, they must both be well over 14 foot at the water, because there is a significant gap when you pass, (as for all the GU tunnels). I wouldn't want to take a 14' * 70' barge, or breasted 7' * 70' narrowboats through Braunston though, even if I knew nobody could come the other way.

 

It has previously been suggested on this forum that BW's approach to ensuring a wide-beam has a clear passage is to tell them to enter at 5:00 am, or similar, but to take no other actions.

 

I just hope they don't try that when the Jam 'Olers are making one of their 5.00 am starts, and travelling in the other direction!

It must have been poor navigation on the part of the other boat, Alan. I passed a pair of Ex-working boats several years ago through the kink and we did not touch.

Edited March 3, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Colin Smith]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum and I don't yet have a boat but I'm doing my research now and hope to enter into the world of liveaboard as soon as I feel I've soaked up enough facts that I can make a wise enough decision as to what suits me best. My first questions of course revolve around what hull/sailaway type I should go for, and for the purpose of this area of the forum what the best or most reasonable manufacturer should be? Firstly I have a fairly good idea what type I want to buy, the Blackrose 12ft by 57ft http://www.barging.co.uk/BlackRose.htm narrowboat style widebeam is looking to me to seem the perfect choice for me atm. Firstly I am fine about being consigned to the widebeam canals of the south of UK having used the www.barging.co.uk map as guide. Secondly as a liveaboard I do feel the width benefits would be a necessity for me. I work as a freelance TV Editor and I would like the option of being able to moor up in London to do some work during the winter months then CC through the summer months, any thoughts on this also welcome. I am 28 and feel that I've got enough energy in me to have a good go at fitting out a sailaway hull up to the standards and style that I have in mind. I have to say that making it my home and putting a lot of 'me' into it is a very important part of this project, and I am fully aware of how very hard this will be, but I've always enjoyed challenges. Anyway, my thoughts at the moment would be to buy a Liverpool Boats Co. sailaway lined 12ft by 60ft from them and mooring non residential poss kingston area whilst I fit her up inside over a year or so, to get her to the point I can continue fitting her up but can live in her too. all thoughts on my endeavors most appreciated and very welcome.

 

Cal

 

P.S

This forum has been a great read, so thanks for everyone for making such a useful and interesting forum.

 

Hi Cal,

 

After 5 years of looking and research (yep 5 years!), we hooked up with a fantastic builder who has built our dream at a cost that was less than a decent 2nd-hand one without compromising on quality etc. Our budget was very low so I decided to do some of the finishing work myself - which helped keep the costs under control. I'm reasonably handy but have little time (or inclination) to get too involved so all the major stuff has been done - wiring, most of the fit-out etc etc.

 

She's a 57ft x 11ft barge with a good spec (10, 6, 5, 5 steelwork, Barrus 65Hp engine). There are some pictures on Flickr at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/synibex

 

The builders are marine engineers based in the north west who build off-shore stuff as well as river/canal barges and narrowboats. The whole process was superb and we were involved from the very start with the designer who worked with us to give us exactly what we wanted - and the price was better than our other short-listed builders!

 

There's an awful lot of things to think about but I'd advise you to concentrate on the shell firstly ie. the detail of it. I'm from a motorsport background so had/have pretty high standards when it comes to welding and testing. I couldn't believe what absolute garbage some builders think is acceptable. For example "we'd send a chap down at the launch with some welding gear in case there are any leaks"......"we've never had more than one or two leaks on a new boat".....!!! These comments were form some well known and "respectable" builders (not Ledgard Bridge I hasten to add - excellent company, superb product but way out of our price bracket - sorry :-))

 

The company that we went with are rock-solid financially (I checked thoroughly) and have a great team of people. Their designer spent a lot of time with us refining our ideas and came up with some great things to help us get what we wanted and stay within our very limited budget. I'm not sure if I can say who they are on an open forum (advertising rules?) but if you PM me, I'd be happy to pass on their details. Our barge is based near Chester so it may be well out of your way but you'd be welcome to have a look at her anytime.

 

Good look with your search!

 

Colin

[Gary Peacock]

Size wise I would stick around 11' much more and the price will begin to jump quite a lot due to not being able to get or transport the baseplate in a suitable size making for a lot more work.

 

We will go up to 11' 6" based on a 15,8,5,5 spec with coach roof built to a structural deck standard but from there up to 16' construction methods change and the price soars.

 

I don't have a price for a sail away (Actually I aren't in theory doing anything to do with boats at the moment although I didn't escape completely! ) but I will get some one to work one out and P/M it to you.

 

I very much doubt we will be competitive in the budget market because that's not really the market aimed at, also in the DIY market we did a lot of "Ready to go range" boats where the greater majority of the work along with CE marking and RCD documentation was completed leaving only the few final simple jobs to complete.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Gary Peacock