Gas cooker installation

[Lee J]

I'm about to start my gas installation and really need to run the gas pipe under the gunwhale in the well deck. My intention is to adhere some tanalised timber to the underside of the gunwhale, come out of the gas locker with a bulkhead fitting, then attach the pipe with clips under the gunwhale and finally into the cabin via another bulkhead fitting. Is this a problem with the BSS?

 

Also, I have a stoves 550DIT cooker, which has the standard 1/2" bsp "socket" for the gas inlet. I want to use a standard bayonet cooker hose. Once again is this complient?

 

Thanks

 

Lee

[ChrisPy]

I'm about to start my gas installation and really need to run the gas pipe under the gunwhale in the well deck. My intention is to adhere some tanalised timber to the underside of the gunwhale, come out of the gas locker with a bulkhead fitting, then attach the pipe with clips under the gunwhale and finally into the cabin via another bulkhead fitting. Is this a problem with the BSS?

 

Also, I have a stoves 550DIT cooker, which has the standard 1/2" bsp "socket" for the gas inlet. I want to use a standard bayonet cooker hose. Once again is this complient?

 

Thanks

 

Lee

I suggest that metal pipe clips should be insulated with rubber to minimise vibration and possible corrosion. I used washing machine hose, split and clipped around the copper gas pipe, before fixing the pipe clips.

 

Best practice is to use copper pipe all the way, no hose connection except from the bottle to the regulator. Why do you need a hose? I made a flexible U-bend just before the stove connection, to avoid putting any strain on the final connection.

[dor]

Not sure that bayonet fittings will pass the BSS. Even if they did, I wouldn't use them on a boat - too much chance of a leak.

 

The gas pipe should be run under the gunwale, clipped at about 30 cm with copper saddle clips, and the pipe should be visible for inspection (so an examiner can confirm there are no joints). Opinions vary if tools are allowed to remove trim etc to permit inspection.

 

 

 

Apart from BSS requirements, just KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid), And Reduce Simple Errors.

[Ex- Member]

I recall batonet fittings weren't acceptable, my oven and hob have a separate supply and are both fitted units so plumbed directly into the back of the oven and hob where 10mm pipe was ready to be connected to, there should also be a stopcock close to the cooker which is accessible and can isolate the appliance. I managed to plumb the cooker using only one joint in a 8 metre length. The joint and all the copper work are accessible though. The main length of pipe runs under the gunwale and I rigged a cover for it using clips, so it simply unclips for any inspection. The remianing pipe runs under the kitchen units and the kick boad is removable where any pipe runs. Bubble tester is a good investment also, may be a requirement now anyway, unsure.

 

I used these type clips in stainless steel.

 

http://ccsfasteners.co.uk/stainless-steel-pclips-c-88.html

[Ray]

Have as few joints as possible.

 

Mine was fitted with bulkhead connectors that were slid over the pipe (which wasn't cut) and the connector fixed into place, effectively acting as a metal grommet. The pipe clips outside were rivetted in place, with the rivet head at the top, recessed into an recessed hole that was then filled prior to painting. A bit like Ernie Wise's wig, you can't see the join (between rivet and boat).

 

Beside the isolation valve in the gas locker we also have one under gunwale in the bow - simply lean over the side (from the bank) and isolate the supply before it enters the boat). A lot quicker than trying to open a gas locker.

[alan_fincher]

Not sure that bayonet fittings will pass the BSS.

 

I recall batonet fittings weren't acceptable.............................

 

I think they are OK......

 

(From the BSS Regs....)

 

Pre-made flexible hose connections conforming to BS 669 may be used for cooker connections. Such hose connections usually have a red stripe running along the length of the hose and must terminate with self-closing bayonet connections. The portable appliance connection checks at 7.10 also apply.

 

However, given that there is always a push to do it in as few joints as possible, and the bayonet connection represents a joint most people don't need, I personally would not attach a boat cooker in this way.

[Lee J]

The problem I have is that the connection on the cooker is quite a long way down on th back of the cooker, and I really can't reach to fit a solid piece of pipe. (Though I just might be able to do so if I lay flat on the worktop! I would have a much easier time of it if I did use a hose. Though I guess I could make a piece of pipe up and pre-install it to the cooker before sliding it into place, then connect that to the isolation valve. Food for thought.

 

Like the idea of protecting the pipe through the well deck with some split hose.

 

I am intending doing the full run of pipe in one shot, the cooker is about as far aft as you can get so this is going to be fun!

 

I have bought a bubble tester, but I don't have a test point on the installation, do you think I should?

 

Lee

[Smelly]

The problem I have is that the connection on the cooker is quite a long way down on th back of the cooker, and I really can't reach to fit a solid piece of pipe. (Though I just might be able to do so if I lay flat on the worktop! I would have a much easier time of it if I did use a hose. Though I guess I could make a piece of pipe up and pre-install it to the cooker before sliding it into place, then connect that to the isolation valve. Food for thought.

 

Like the idea of protecting the pipe through the well deck with some split hose.

 

I am intending doing the full run of pipe in one shot, the cooker is about as far aft as you can get so this is going to be fun!

 

I have bought a bubble tester, but I don't have a test point on the installation, do you think I should?

 

Lee

 

Lee, the connections on our New World cooker were 3/8 so I used one of these from the isolator to the cooker instead of bayonet fittings. Edit to say there was a threaded fitting that needed putting on the cooker's inlet but I'd need a photo to identify it.

 

Noone's mentioned drilling out the bulkhead fittings, which makes life easier and reduces the number of joints, just nip up the olives to hold the pipe without tightening them completely.

 

What does the team think about Rocol White? Some surveyors seem reluctant so I've heard

Edited February 10, 2009 by Smelly

[alan_fincher]

Lee, the connections on our New World cooker were 3/8 so I used one of these from the isolator to the cooker instead of bayonet fittings. Edit to say there was a threaded fitting that needed putting on the cooker's inlet but I'd need a photo to identify it.

 

Allegedly, this type of hose, with braiding over the orange hose inside, is no longer recommended for boat use.

 

My BSS inspector reckoned they were being phased out to be replaced by something similar, but with no braiding.

 

The argument went that with the braiding, it was not possible to inspect the internal neoprene hose it covered for deterioration.

 

This wasn't a fail, though.

 

I was not afterwards able to find anything on the BSS site about it, but it might be worth a phone call to get current recommendations.

 

(My chandlery still only sells braided ones - but they are dated about 4 years ago...)

 

Personally, if it's hard to reach the fitting on the back of the cooker, I'd do as you suggest, and use a permanently connected flexible hose, connecting the cooker end before you put it in place.

 

I have bought a bubble tester, but I don't have a test point on the installation, do you think I should?

Are you sure there isn't one on the cooker itself ? Many appliances have an integral one.

[dor]

Personally, if it's hard to reach the fitting on the back of the cooker, I'd do as you suggest, and use a permanently connected flexible hose, connecting the cooker end before you put it in place.

 

That's what I did. Makes installation simple and no extra joints as you connect it to the isolator or test point.

 

BSS may insist you can get a spanner on the joints though. They certainly must be visible.

[blackrose]

I'm about to start my gas installation and really need to run the gas pipe under the gunwhale in the well deck. My intention is to adhere some tanalised timber to the underside of the gunwhale, come out of the gas locker with a bulkhead fitting, then attach the pipe with clips under the gunwhale and finally into the cabin via another bulkhead fitting. Is this a problem with the BSS?

 

Also, I have a stoves 550DIT cooker, which has the standard 1/2" bsp "socket" for the gas inlet. I want to use a standard bayonet cooker hose. Once again is this complient?

 

Thanks

 

Lee

 

Use Marineflex or another PU sealant/adhesive to bits of stick harwood or tanalised timber where you want. I wouldn't use any other kind of adhesive outside. I used copper saddle clips to hold the gas pipe on.

 

As others have said, an appliance which doesn't beed to be moved shouldn't really be connected with a flexible hose.

 

Allegedly, this type of hose, with braiding over the orange hose inside, is no longer recommended for boat use.

 

My BSS inspector reckoned they were being phased out to be replaced by something similar, but with no braiding.

 

The argument went that with the braiding, it was not possible to inspect the internal neoprene hose it covered for deterioration.

 

This wasn't a fail, though.

 

I was not afterwards able to find anything on the BSS site about it, but it might be worth a phone call to get current recommendations.

 

(My chandlery still only sells braided ones - but they are dated about 4 years ago...)

 

Personally, if it's hard to reach the fitting on the back of the cooker, I'd do as you suggest, and use a permanently connected flexible hose, connecting the cooker end before you put it in place.

 

 

Are you sure there isn't one on the cooker itself ? Many appliances have an integral one.

 

Is your gas fridge connected with a hose Alan? I did mine with a flexible metal braided hose. I'm sure they wouldn't expect a fridge to be plumbed in with solid pipe would they? I need to be able to get to the back of mine to check the exhaust.

Edited February 10, 2009 by blackrose

[Lee J]

That's what I did. Makes installation simple and no extra joints as you connect it to the isolator or test point.

 

BSS may insist you can get a spanner on the joints though. They certainly must be visible.

 

Does spanner access and visability include the one at the back of the cooker? I am concerned about pulling out the cooker for inspection with solid pipes connected and I'm assuming it would be bad form to have to disconnect the cooker for the inspector to check.

 

Lee

[dor]

I cut a hole in the panel of the cupboard alongside the cooker. I can get a spanner on the nut. Turning it, however, is another matter.

[david and julie]

I have the same cooker and 2 years ago(don't know if its changed since) I was actually told by the guy who oversaw my build that I should use the bayonet fitting - which is available at chandlers. The supply pipe comes from the front through a drilled out bulkhead fitting then into an isolation valve (next to the cooker under the gunnel) the bayonet hose then screws into the other side of the isolation valve.

 

You also need a safety chain or other bracket fixing to the back of the cooker and the wall or floor, this is meant to stop the cooker toppling over if any kids pull down on the door. It isn't hard to make a cooker topple when the door is open and it can then either fall onto someone or break the supply pipe.

 

My boat was in primer when I fitted it out so I fastened a piece of Oak under the gunnel by drilling and tapping and using SS screws, the bit protruding out of the top was then ground flush.

[Smelly]

Does spanner access and visability include the one at the back of the cooker? I am concerned about pulling out the cooker for inspection with solid pipes connected and I'm assuming it would be bad form to have to disconnect the cooker for the inspector to check.

 

Lee

 

Isn't that why you need a flex hose? Surely the examiner needs to get to the back of the cooker to check the connections so it needs to be moved...

[Lee J]

Isn't that why you need a flex hose? Surely the examiner needs to get to the back of the cooker to check the connections so it needs to be moved...

 

That's exactly why I would like to use a hose! I think base on Alan's reply, and the fact that gas cookers have been installed in hundreds of thousands of domestic situations with bayonet hoses I'll take my chances, I guess my real question was "is it complient" and I think it probably is.

 

Lee

[ChrisPy]

That's exactly why I would like to use a hose! I think base on Alan's reply, and the fact that gas cookers have been installed in hundreds of thousands of domestic situations with bayonet hoses I'll take my chances, I guess my real question was "is it complient" and I think it probably is.

 

Lee

missing the point.

A slight gas leak in a domestic building is unlikely to be noticed and is hardly ever catastrophic.

A slight gas leak on a boat is unlikely to be noticed until the gas in the bilges reaches the lower explosive limit of gas/air mixture and then explodes.

[Lee J]

missing the point.

A slight gas leak in a domestic building is unlikely to be noticed and is hardly ever catastrophic.

A slight gas leak on a boat is unlikely to be noticed until the gas in the bilges reaches the lower explosive limit of gas/air mixture and then explodes.

 

I am struggling to understand your point. What are you are suggesting. That I don't use a bayonet? How will this avoid an explosion? Or are you informing me of the heavier than air properties of LP gas? I already understand that.

 

Thank you for your input.

 

Lee

[Ex- Member]

A slight gas leak on a boat is unlikely to be noticed until the gas in the bilges reaches the lower explosive limit of gas/air mixture and then explodes.

 

Gas will only ignite or explode if done so from a spark or flame, it won't explode of it's own accord as far as I'm aware.

[david and julie]

Houses have air bricks so any leaks would more than likely blow away, obviously that isn't the case in a boat, so leaks could build up in the bilge.

 

If it bothers you fit a bubble tester or/and an alarm - both a good idea anyway.

 

Its a long time since as I had dealings with LEL limits but you may fine this intersting.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Explosive+limit

Edited February 11, 2009 by david and julie

[ChrisPy]

I am struggling to understand your point. What are you are suggesting. That I don't use a bayonet? How will this avoid an explosion? Or are you informing me of the heavier than air properties of LP gas? I already understand that.

 

Thank you for your input.

 

Lee

we don't normally use hoses inside the cabin because there is a greater risk of failure of a hose than a copper pipe with proper connections.

 

 

 

Gas will only ignite or explode if done so from a spark or flame, it won't explode of it's own accord as far as I'm aware.

of course, but you cannot avoid sources of ignition on a boat.

better to assume that if an explosive mixture builds up, it will explode.

[alan_fincher]

we don't normally use hoses inside the cabin because there is a greater risk of failure of a hose than a copper pipe with proper connections.

 

But that's a choice thing, not a standards thing, surely ?

 

When we bought our boat, the hob, separate oven & fridge are all connected via armoured flexible hoses. Only the instantaneous water heater uses solid copper connections.

 

I saw no reason to change this, and in the case of oven and fridge, it would be almost impossible to do it any way, due to the locations of the connectors.

 

I've changed all hoses for new, but made no attempt to reduce the number. Our BSS inspector commented favourably upon our gas installation, saying it looked most professional.

 

The only one I think I could realistically convert to a solid copper feed is the hob.

[ChrisPy]

But that's a choice thing, not a standards thing, surely ?

 

When we bought our boat, the hob, separate oven & fridge are all connected via armoured flexible hoses. Only the instantaneous water heater uses solid copper connections.

 

I saw no reason to change this, and in the case of oven and fridge, it would be almost impossible to do it any way, due to the locations of the connectors.

 

I've changed all hoses for new, but made no attempt to reduce the number. Our BSS inspector commented favourably upon our gas installation, saying it looked most professional.

 

The only one I think I could realistically convert to a solid copper feed is the hob.

 

quotation from Calor Marine Shop advice page:

 

All appliances should be fitted with an isolation valve for servicing and maintenance, to isolate the appliance when do in use.

 

Fixed appliances should be connected by solid pipework to keep flexible connections to a minimum.

 

Gimballed appliances should be connected with flexible hose (may be armoured)

 

Hose should be fixed at supply end with floor tap or securely clipped to prevent movement of any joints or connections. Armoured hoses are not required by British Standards only that the hose is made to BS3212 pt2, however it is a wise precaution to reduce the risk of mechanical damage.

 

Appliances should not put an undue strain on pipework to reduce the risk of mechanical damage and work hardening

 

Pipework should not assist in retaining the appliance to reduce the risk of mechanical damage and work hardening.

 

All appliances should be positively and securely fixed to prevent accidental movement, to reduce the risk of mechanical damage and work hardening to pipework.

 

 

no further comment

[Dave Hannigan]

quotation from Calor Marine Shop advice page:

 

All appliances should be fitted with an isolation valve for servicing and maintenance, to isolate the appliance when do in use.

 

Fixed appliances should be connected by solid pipework to keep flexible connections to a minimum.

 

Gimballed appliances should be connected with flexible hose (may be armoured)

 

Hose should be fixed at supply end with floor tap or securely clipped to prevent movement of any joints or connections. Armoured hoses are not required by British Standards only that the hose is made to BS3212 pt2, however it is a wise precaution to reduce the risk of mechanical damage.

 

Appliances should not put an undue strain on pipework to reduce the risk of mechanical damage and work hardening

 

Pipework should not assist in retaining the appliance to reduce the risk of mechanical damage and work hardening.

 

All appliances should be positively and securely fixed to prevent accidental movement, to reduce the risk of mechanical damage and work hardening to pipework.

 

 

no further comment

 

 

A cooker would not be regarded as a fixed appliance- they are will need to be moved for cleaning purposes. Personally I would rather a connection designed for that purpose than solid pipework that was not designed to allow cookers to be moved on a regular basis.

 

I agree hobs and ovens meant to be secured in housing units should be solid pipework.

 

Dave

[Gary Peacock]

Use a bayonet and hose.

 

The reasons why they are used in house are perfectly valid on boats.