Another builder closing their doors

[blueberry]

Heard through work today that Bill Sterling has shut up shop

 

his last boat is currently for sale through a certain broker even with a part ex!

 

after reading through rather allot of threads recently, i think Gary's prediction is coming to light

 

when is it going to get going again!!

we have a couple under construction at the mo,

 

but with the cost of materials going through the roof, we can't make any profit !!so makes you wonder who will carry on the tradition of building narrow-boats in the future

 

 

oh buy the way great forum, have been stalking for ages

 

i don't normally whinge that much honest!!

[Tonyl]

Heard through work today that Bill Sterling has shut up shop

 

his last boat is currently for sale through a certain broker even with a part ex!

 

after reading through rather allot of threads recently, i think Gary's prediction is coming to light

 

when is it going to get going again!!

we have a couple under construction at the mo,

 

but with the cost of materials going through the roof, we can't make any profit !!so makes you wonder who will carry on the tradition of building narrow-boats in the future

 

 

oh buy the way great forum, have been stalking for ages

 

i don't normally whinge that much honest!!

 

Core blimey, completely messed up here, have you got Gery's thread of his prediction. Its a shame to hear of builders going under.

 

Tony

 

Or even Gary's threrad.

 

That should be thread, and I am looking to work a 57 footer ?, God help us .

Edited July 1, 2008 by Tonyl

[carlt]

but with the cost of materials going through the roof, we can't make any profit !!so makes you wonder who will carry on the tradition of building narrow-boats in the future

Jem Bates

Ian Kemp

Steve Priest

RW Davis

Roger Fuller

Norton Canes

Barry hawkins

Roger Farringdon

and a very few others

 

If you mean bog standard clonecraft boats, though, the tradition will continue, ably, a long way east of here.

[blueberry]

Jem Bates

Ian Kemp

Steve Priest

RW Davis

Roger Fuller

Norton Canes

Barry hawkins

Roger Farringdon

and a very few others

 

If you mean bog standard clonecraft boats, though, the tradition will continue, ably, a long way east of here.

take out Mr Hawkins as i think he's stopped trading?

got to say not much of a list is there?? missed out Malcom Webster

 

yes we build bog standard clonecraft ( i would love to AFFORD to build trady boats) but are they not the future of tradition?? im sure in the past the now 'traditional' cargo boat was BOG standard??

 

if you look closely, the clone boats are paying alot towards the up-keep of the canals, are they not? how many miles would be open if it was only the tradys that were on 't' cut?

 

i'm sorry if my comment of 'Tradition of building narrowboats' has offended

 

for you Tonyl clicky type thingy to the Garys prediction of the future ' were all dooooooomed'

Edited July 1, 2008 by blueberry

[redfastlad]

Heard through work today that Bill Sterling has shut up shop

 

his last boat is currently for sale through a certain broker even with a part ex!

 

after reading through rather allot of threads recently, i think Gary's prediction is coming to light

 

when is it going to get going again!!

we have a couple under construction at the mo,

 

but with the cost of materials going through the roof, we can't make any profit !!so makes you wonder who will carry on the tradition of building narrow-boats in the future

 

 

oh buy the way great forum, have been stalking for ages

 

i don't normally whinge that much honest!!

The cost of any material with a ferrous or non ferrous content will be so expensive as to make boat builders really want to pack it all in, as a employee in the recycling industry i have never seen metal prices like the ones we are realising at the moment i buy many tons of steel from Corus the steelmakers and now they will not give me a price for July deliveries. I am now having to purchase steel bars on a trust basis that they will not rip me off, but i know what price my company is getting for scrap from Corus therefore the finished steel will be exhorbitantly priced. Now try to weigh up the metal on your boat ok most of todays boats are produced from foreign cheap steel. but most of the boat the fire the sink the shower the cooker the fridge the engine the gearbox the prop all the wiring all the plumbing the lights the tv the water tanks all metal im afraid and it has all gone up by at least 30% so sorry for anyone wanting a new boat but good news for used boats as the value has got to be holding good at the moment but finding a buyer may not be as easy as in the past

[Mukiwa]

Jem Bates

Ian Kemp

Steve Priest

RW Davis

Roger Fuller

Norton Canes

Barry hawkins

Roger Farringdon

and a very few others

 

If you mean bog standard clonecraft boats, though, the tradition will continue, ably, a long way east of here.

I would also like to add Dave Harris (in the same yard as Ian Kemp).

[bargeeboy]

Jem Bates

Ian Kemp

Steve Priest

RW Davis

Roger Fuller

Norton Canes

Barry hawkins

Roger Farringdon

and a very few others

 

If you mean bog standard clonecraft boats, though, the tradition will continue, ably, a long way east of here.

 

Don't forget NarrowCraft oh and Steve Hudson my neighbour.

Edited July 2, 2008 by bargeeboy

[WJM]

I am in a similar (but totally unconnected) bespoke manufacturing industry. I am also seeing the same flushing out of weaker companies. The problem is not primarily about rising costs. It is about small poorly managed companies using outdated and uneconomic processes and practices. Outside of very niche markets, there is no place in this economy for small old style craftsmen. The Polish, who seem to be cornering the mass market for narrowboats, are to some extent insulated from this by their lower overheads costs but unlike most of the british manufacturers, they have embraced modern production methods.

 

 

This is the british disease. In the 1960s Britain and France both built Concorde aircraft. In Britain they were built in an ad-hoc, scattered system on the floor of an old hanger. In France they were built on a modern new production line. Although Concorde was not a success, that French production line has continued to produce Airbus jetliners ever since, while the british industry curled up and died. I blame it on a class system that places incompetent people at the heads of major industry, while the competent but not socially connected are excluded. The process starts with Monarchy. Britain will not emerge from this declining twilight until this system ends.

[Dominic M]

I am in a similar (but totally unconnected) bespoke manufacturing industry. I am also seeing the same flushing out of weaker companies. The problem is not primarily about rising costs. It is about small poorly managed companies using outdated and uneconomic processes and practices. Outside of very niche markets, there is no place in this economy for small old style craftsmen. The Polish, who seem to be cornering the mass market for narrowboats, are to some extent insulated from this by their lower overheads costs but unlike most of the british manufacturers, they have embraced modern production methods.

 

 

This is the british disease. In the 1960s Britain and France both built Concorde aircraft. In Britain they were built in an ad-hoc, scattered system on the floor of an old hanger. In France they were built on a modern new production line. Although Concorde was not a success, that French production line has continued to produce Airbus jetliners ever since, while the british industry curled up and died. I blame it on a class system that places incompetent people at the heads of major industry, while the competent but not socially connected are excluded. The process starts with Monarchy. Britain will not emerge from this declining twilight until this system ends.

It is not so much that the Polish have cornered the market, more that a number of British people involved in the canal boat building industry have outsourced the work to somewhere with lower overheads. As have many other manufacturers. But the end product is not exactly cheap to the buyer. Nor is it necessarily any good. I was offered a 2 year old Polish built boat for sale recently. It cost c. £70k. The flimsy interior linings were turning black in a number of places, indicating poor or non-existent insulation. Beading which had simply been stapled to the deckhead was springing loose. It was virtually unsaleable without at least £10k of work being carried out (the figure was a rough estimate given to me by a boat fitter who cast an eye over the problem for me). The hapless owners settled for half what they had paid for it, selling it to a company that buys in boats.

 

And I have to agree with Carl's list - there will always be a market for quality boat builders. Can I add Dave Thomas and Peter Nicholls to that line up?

[Liam]

hasn't Dave Thomas (at Braunston) packed it in aswell?

 

Apologies if I am incorrect but I think I remember reading that.

[carlt]

take out Mr Hawkins as i think he's stopped trading?

got to say not much of a list is there?? missed out Malcom Webster

 

yes we build bog standard clonecraft ( i would love to AFFORD to build trady boats) but are they not the future of tradition?? im sure in the past the now 'traditional' cargo boat was BOG standard??

 

if you look closely, the clone boats are paying alot towards the up-keep of the canals, are they not? how many miles would be open if it was only the tradys that were on 't' cut?

Sorry, it wasn't supposed to be a dig.

 

Like the converted workboat/lifeboat/landing craft of the 60s, the fibreglass cruiser of the 70s and early 80s, the clonecraft has done a marvellous job and is a worthy inland boat.

 

It's just an easy way of describing a style of boat, not entirely derogatory (as tongue in cheek as "tupperware" or "wooden knacker").

 

I think they may have had their day, though, as the most popular holiday boat. The top quality builders will survive, and not all building replicas.

 

I understand Barry Hawkins is up and running again, btw, but may be wrong.

[Dominic M]

hasn't Dave Thomas (at Braunston) packed it in aswell?

 

Apologies if I am incorrect but I think I remember reading that.

Still there as far as I know. But thanks for asking - it has given me a good excuse to pop down to the Gongoozler kaff for a fry up sometime later this week in the name of research

[carlt]

hasn't Dave Thomas (at Braunston) packed it in aswell?

 

Apologies if I am incorrect but I think I remember reading that.

You may be getting mixed up with Dave Bassett (I hope!)

[Liam]

Argh I am obviously way out there...

 

Apologies!

[Dominic M]

You may be getting mixed up with Dave Bassett (I hope!)

Stop being clever and ruining my excuse for a fry up!

[wrigglefingers]

Tsk, tsk, you missed out David Harris in your list of outstanding boatbuilders.

 

Wriggly

[carlt]

The process starts with Monarchy. Britain will not emerge from this declining twilight until this system ends.

I record, for posterity, the moment myself and WJM are in complete agreement

 

(ps. I hope it's not just one of your "devil's advocate" moments, though)

 

 

The Polish, who seem to be cornering the mass market for narrowboats, are to some extent insulated from this by their lower overheads costs but unlike most of the british manufacturers, they have embraced modern production methods.

I would add, though, the lovely Polish family who lived over the road from me have now returned home.

 

The hubby was telling me that he could now earn as much over there but the cost of living has yet to catch up so they'll be better off.

[bargeeboy]

It is not so much that the Polish have cornered the market, more that a number of British people involved in the canal boat building industry have outsourced the work to somewhere with lower overheads. As have many other manufacturers. But the end product is not exactly cheap to the buyer. Nor is it necessarily any good. I was offered a 2 year old Polish built boat for sale recently. It cost c. £70k. The flimsy interior linings were turning black in a number of places, indicating poor or non-existent insulation. Beading which had simply been stapled to the deckhead was springing loose. It was virtually unsaleable without at least £10k of work being carried out (the figure was a rough estimate given to me by a boat fitter who cast an eye over the problem for me). The hapless owners settled for half what they had paid for it, selling it to a company that buys in boats.

 

For the purpose of good order please confirm that this boat was NOT built by NarrowCraft

[carlt]

Don't forget NarrowCraft.

Sorry BB but I covered them in my last sentence but I would stress that the clonecraft description is not a reflection of quality, workmanship or boatbuilding skills.

 

There are some top quality builders of clonecraft out there and, though I haven't had a good look at any Polish nbs, I've seen some beautifully made East European seagoing boats.

[WJM]

"(ps. I hope it's not just one of your "devil's advocate" moments, though)"

 

I dont understand how the very important position of Head of State is awarded to a person for no other reason than an accident of birth, with no regard to their suitability for the job. Then the final insult is that they must stay in that job until they die thus preventing a more capable successor from taking on the job at an appropriate time. In other countries, the Head of State is a competent person who has the respect of their peers, is chosen for their abilities and they hand the job over when their time and their best effort is done.

 

My real objection is that it suggests to the whole of society that we are all born into our given situations and that we must not try to change things. That I see as the british disease, a lack of dynamism in society, a false sense of place that prevents thinking out of the box, all perpetuated by the self interest of an increasingly incompetent ruling class.

[grahoom]

all perpetuated by the self interest of an increasingly incompetent ruling class.

 

and they're shape shifting reptilians! (according to david icke..)

[cotswoldsman]

I blame it on a class system that places incompetent people at the heads of major industry, while the competent but not socially connected are excluded. The process starts with Monarchy. Britain will not emerge from this declining twilight until this system ends.

 

WOW not sure what you mean by class system, but guess the "not socially connected" you mean people who went to state schools or are from working class (whatever that is) seems a very broad statement but I guess these two are examples of "not socially conected"

 

Adam Applegarth - CEO of Northern Rock state educated started in Northern Rock as a cashier paid himself £1.5 million a year and was resposible for decline of a footsie 100 company.

 

Peter Redffern - CEO of Taylor Wimpey state educated the son of a teacher was CEO of Wimpeys took over Taylor Woodrow to create a company with combined assets of £5 billion today worth £500 million.

 

Not quite sure what monarchy has to do with business unless you mean like the American system where they have no monarchy but have been the cause of the bigest banking crisis ever. But still would not say that was caused by lack of monarchy maybe might need to look at the background of the status of the heads of the American Banking system.

[carlt]

and they're shape shifting reptilians! (according to david icke..)

That was just his attempt to make them appear more normal, in order for us republicans to accept them.

[WJM]

America has a very different ruling 'monarchy', albeit a very quiet, almost hidden one, but it is just visible under the surface.

 

Mine are just observations as an immigrant who is welcome to fup right back to where I came from if I dont like it - but I do like it! As an outsider I might be better placed to see flaws in an objective way. Britain is going through a period of rebirth after the death of empire and manufacturing. As an outsider, I see some of these legacy structures hindering the process.

 

This does relate to the OP, is the narrowboat building business doomed? - only if you retain 'old british' thinking. The future is in ripping up all the preconceived ideas of what a boat building business is and start thinking out of the box. The survivors will be those that either go after strong niche markets or embrace modern production methods, wether they are in the UK or not. My observation is that the british are relatively slow to understand this kind of thinking.

[cotswoldsman]

America has a very different ruling 'monarchy', albeit a very quiet, almost hidden one, but it is just visible under the surface.

 

Mine are just observations as an immigrant who is welcome to fup right back to where I came from if I dont like it - but I do like it! As an outsider I might be better placed to see flaws in an objective way. Britain is going through a period of rebirth after the death of empire and manufacturing. As an outsider, I see some of these legacy structures hindering the process.

 

This does relate to the OP, is the narrowboat building business doomed? - only if you retain 'old british' thinking. The future is in ripping up all the preconceived ideas of what a boat building business is and start thinking out of the box. The survivors will be those that either go after strong niche markets or embrace modern production methods, wether they are in the UK or not. My observation is that the british are relatively slow to understand this kind of thinking.

 

Ah well I see it from the outside myself being from South Africa. Its just that I found your statement a bit broad not so sure that the class system will ever change and that includes the class system on the canals.