Alternator controllers

[pwl]

There has been a lot of discussion on the forum on battery charging but I cant find any reference to which alternator contoller works, is reliable etc. Hence this thread. So far I have found the X-ALT Range of which the 'Skipper' seems a good choice. I have also found the Kestrel 90 and the Sterling Power DAR 12 but they are all quite expensive. Does anyone have experience of these units or any others? My banks are currently 1 x 110 AH for the engine and 3 x 110 AH for the cabin bank. If I can find some space I want to raise the csize of the cabin bank or fit 135 AH instead.

 

P

[blackrose]

There has been a lot of discussion on the forum on battery charging but I cant find any reference to which alternator contoller works, is reliable etc. Hence this thread. So far I have found the X-ALT Range of which the 'Skipper' seems a good choice. I have also found the Kestrel 90 and the Sterling Power DAR 12 but they are all quite expensive. Does anyone have experience of these units or any others? My banks are currently 1 x 110 AH for the engine and 3 x 110 AH for the cabin bank. If I can find some space I want to raise the csize of the cabin bank or fit 135 AH instead.

 

P

 

I have Sterling - the one without the separate control panel. Seems fine to me but I haven't had it long. I thought they were the cheapest, so when you say they seem expensive - compared to what?

[Sir Nibble]

These threads tend to run on a bit! Somewhere or other I posted a "charging survey" for this sort of situation but I can't find it now. The upshot is this, if you're not getting as much charge as you need then it is being limited, a charge controller will overcome this if the limit it is reaching is the regulated voltage. It may also be limited by the maximum current output of the alternator, or the speed at which it is driven. I presume that before buying a "controller" rather than just swallowing the marketing you will have determined that your system is indeed quickly reaching regulated voltage. If it isn't, then all the bolt on charge controllers in the world will have no effect, none at all.

[pwl]

I have Sterling - the one without the separate control panel. Seems fine to me but I haven't had it long. I thought they were the cheapest, so when you say they seem expensive - compared to what?

My surveyor indicated they were worth getting and cost about 50 quid. Most seem to be 100+. Guess prices have risen. P

These threads tend to run on a bit! Somewhere or other I posted a "charging survey" for this sort of situation but I can't find it now. The upshot is this, if you're not getting as much charge as you need then it is being limited, a charge controller will overcome this if the limit it is reaching is the regulated voltage. It may also be limited by the maximum current output of the alternator, or the speed at which it is driven. I presume that before buying a "controller" rather than just swallowing the marketing you will have determined that your system is indeed quickly reaching regulated voltage. If it isn't, then all the bolt on charge controllers in the world will have no effect, none at all.

Monitoring the bank is the plan but the boat is new to us so I need to see how things run. Our power needs should not be high but we have done the 8 hours cruising a day on hire boats and on our own plan more holidays with a 'day off' so I need to get the battery banks sorted to cope. Solar panels are in plan but given the refit work she needs (10 berth down to 4) they may be a way off.P Edited February 8, 2008 by pwl

[chris w]

I have a Sterling PDAR (the one with the remote control monitoring and panel) and am delighted with it. You will find generally that cheaper controllers don't offer all the features like battery-type switching etc and so are limited to 14.4v instead of 14.8v for wet lead-acids batteries.

 

I also concur with what Snibble said. An external controller will never get you more current than the alternator is capable of delivering for its rating. What it will do is to give you more current (usually about double the current) at the SAME revs during the absorption stage.

 

At typical NB engine speeds, and without an external controller, you will get about 30-35% of the nominal alternator current output once the battery voltage rises to that of the alternator's internal regulator (typically around 14v). With the external controller, you will get about 60-70% of the alternator's rated output.

 

At the start of the absorption phase on my boat, I see around 27A with the external controller OFF and around 52A with the external controller ON @ approx 1000RPM. (Isuzu 35; 80A nominal alternator).

 

Chris

Edited February 8, 2008 by chris w

[Keeping Up]

The only two I can comment on from extensive personal experience are the Kestrel and the Adverc.

 

The Kestrel 90 has a clue in its name - it was great when it was introduced in 1990, there was nothing else around and I fitted them in several people's boats around that time, but now it's 17 years out of date. It's not very effective and it can easily cause more problems than it solves.

 

I've had an Adverc controller in my boat for many years, and its performance is simply brilliant. I wouldn't be without it, especially as I am a fan of diode splitters rather than split-charge relays and it compensates for that with no difficulty.

[chris w]

The Sterling PDAR has both battery and alternator temperature sensing; with automatic shutdown of the controller if the temperatures go outside preset limits (50degC for batteries; 90degC for alternators). I believe I'm correct in saying that the Adverc has battery temperature sensing but not alternator temperature sensing. Perhaps Allan can coment?

 

Chris

[Keeping Up]

The Sterling PDAR has both battery and alternator temperature sensing; with automatic shutdown of the controller if the temperatures go outside preset limits (50degC for batteries; 90degC for alternators). I believe I'm correct in saying that the Adverc has battery temperature sensing but not alternator temperature sensing. Perhaps Allan can coment?

Yes that's correct. The Adverc senses battery temperature (compensating the voltage to allow for it, and shutting down if it rises too high) but it does not monitor the alternator temperature.

[blackrose]

The Sterling PDAR has both battery and alternator temperature sensing; with automatic shutdown of the controller if the temperatures go outside preset limits (50degC for batteries; 90degC for alternators). I believe I'm correct in saying that the Adverc has battery temperature sensing but not alternator temperature sensing. Perhaps Allan can coment?

 

Chris

 

My Sterling controller doesn't have alternator temp sensing but this reminds me of the conversation we had Chris about the possibility of buying a cheap temperature sensor and soldering the thermocouple to the alternator housing. I think the cheapest you can buy is about 15 quid. Of course this won't shut down the controller in the event that the alternator overheats, but I think they make them with alarms that can be preset for specific temperatures. Is this worth doing? How often do alternators overheat as a result of controller malfunction?

 

I'm in Kaliningrad, Russia at the moment where finding an internet cafe is like winning the lottery - this one's costing me a fortune. Back home on Sunday so I'll check any answers then.

Edited February 8, 2008 by blackrose

[chris w]

Hi Mike

 

Your Sterling controller doesn't have alternator temperature sensing because you have the DAR version rather than the PDAR (cheapskate!! )

 

The fitting of a thermocouple could indeed be used to sound an alarm in the event of high alternator temperature. It would be a doddle electronically to also have the thermocouple circuit switch off the controller via its field wire as well

 

Я желаю вам славное дня

 

Chris

Edited February 8, 2008 by chris w

[Keeping Up]

How often do alternators overheat as a result of controller malfunction?

I don't think they often fail as a result of controller malfunction. They can and do overheat as a result of normal function (with or without a controller) if they haven't got enough cool air passing through them. The harder they are working the hotter they get, so they fail more often when they are being made to work harder (either because the batteries are flat, or because they have an external controller, or both)

 

Mine overheated a couple of years back, almost certainly because the dogs shed a load of hair and clogged up all the ventilation

[Bojangles]

There has been a lot of discussion on the forum on battery charging but I cant find any reference to which alternator contoller works, is reliable etc. Hence this thread. So far I have found the X-ALT Range of which the 'Skipper' seems a good choice. I have also found the Kestrel 90 and the Sterling Power DAR 12 but they are all quite expensive. Does anyone have experience of these units or any others? My banks are currently 1 x 110 AH for the engine and 3 x 110 AH for the cabin bank. If I can find some space I want to raise the csize of the cabin bank or fit 135 AH instead.

 

P

 

I'm also interested in seeing the replies to this question. My batteries are similarly configured to 'pwl'. I am not able to understand what seems to me a complex electronic discussion.

 

The choice seems to be between Kestrel ( already suggested as being an old design) Sterling, Adverc and I'm not sure if Smartgauge make an alternator regulator. Perhaps there are also some others?

 

Simply I'd just like to know which to buy and why.

 

Thanks

[Keeping Up]

I'm also interested in seeing the replies to this question. My batteries are similarly configured to 'pwl'. I am not able to understand what seems to me a complex electronic discussion.

 

The choice seems to be between Kestrel ( already suggested as being an old design) Sterling, Adverc and I'm not sure if Smartgauge make an alternator regulator. Perhaps there are also some others?

 

Simply I'd just like to know which to buy and why.

 

Thanks

To be as non-technical as possible:

 

Don't buy a Kestrel.

Smartgauge don't make them.

Adverc and Sterling are both good.

 

Adverc and Sterling will each tell you theirs is the best. They both have their fan-clubs. Sterling's are a bit cheaper than Adverc and have more features but Adverc claim their charging routine is superior. I doubt you'll find anyone to give you an unbiased and in-depth answer as to which one is best for you.

 

Does that help?

[chris w]

I'm not sure if Smartgauge make an alternator regulator. Perhaps there are also some others?

 

Simply I'd just like to know which to buy and why.

 

Thanks

 

Smartgauge don't make one.

 

As to which one, there is no simple answer because there are a few variables. Typically the more expensive ones have software control (which is more precise than hardware control) and more features.

 

If you don't uderstand the importance of the features, you will tend to dismiss them and go for a cheap controller. Don't!! Some of the variables to consider are:

 

1. Software control (very desirable leading to more precise charging matched to the batteries)

 

2. A remote panel giving charging voltages and currents (VERY, very useful)

 

3. Battery temperature monitoring (very desirable)

 

4. Alternator temperature monitoring (very desirable)

 

5. Ability to select battery type (eg: gel/AGM/wet lead acid). (Very important)

 

6. Ability to switch the controller on or off during use (useful for comparative data)

 

Price is the least important aspect IMHO. An external controller is a very powerful piece of kit and can drastically improve battery life, shorten charging times and ensure enough power is available at all times. Don't skimp on it. If you have gel (sealed) or AGM batteries you will see less improvement in charging if your internal regulator is sitting at 14.2v or more.

 

For wet lead-acid batteries, they are a definite boon.

 

Chris

[Bones]

Я желаю вам славное дня

 

Chris

восхитительный!

[NFA]

Posted in error

Edited February 8, 2008 by NFA

[steelaway]

Smartgauge don't make one.

 

As to which one, there is no simple answer because there are a few variables. Typically the more expensive ones have software control (which is more precise than hardware control) and more features.

 

If you don't uderstand the importance of the features, you will tend to dismiss them and go for a cheap controller. Don't!! Some of the variables to consider are:

 

1. Software control (very desirable leading to more precise charging matched to the batteries)

 

2. A remote panel giving charging voltages and currents (VERY, very useful)

 

3. Battery temperature monitoring (very desirable)

 

4. Alternator temperature monitoring (very desirable)

 

5. Ability to select battery type (eg: gel/AGM/wet lead acid). (Very important)

 

6. Ability to switch the controller on or off during use (useful for comparative data)

 

Price is the least important aspect IMHO. An external controller is a very powerful piece of kit and can drastically improve battery life, shorten charging times and ensure enough power is available at all times. Don't skimp on it. If you have gel (sealed) or AGM batteries you will see less improvement in charging if your internal regulator is sitting at 14.2v or more.

 

For wet lead-acid batteries, they are a definite boon.

 

Chris

 

 

 

DITTO --- all this

 

Alex

[chris w]

восхитительный!

 

Я радостен вы думаю так

 

Chris

[Bojangles]

Я радостен вы думаю так

 

Chris

 

It's clearer now. I knew I was speaking the wrong language

[steelaway]

Я радостен вы думаю так

 

Chris

 

Does this mean you have got the spell checker to work?

 

Alex

[Dylan]

Smartgauge neither make nor recommend external controllers, except for older lower voltage alternators.

[chris w]

Smartgauge neither make nor recommend external controllers, except for older lower voltage alternators.

 

This is the only issue on which Gibbo and I disagree. Both from theory and practical experience, my alternator controller doubles the current during the absorption stage despite there being a 14.3v internal regulator on my alternator.

 

Chris

Edited February 8, 2008 by chris w

[smileypete]

My Sterling controller doesn't have alternator temp sensing but this reminds me of the conversation we had Chris about the possibility of buying a cheap temperature sensor and soldering the thermocouple to the alternator housing. I think the cheapest you can buy is about 15 quid. Of course this won't shut down the controller in the event that the alternator overheats, but I think they make them with alarms that can be preset for specific temperatures. Is this worth doing? How often do alternators overheat as a result of controller malfunction?

 

This do for £1.27?

http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.asp...;moduleno=35569

 

 

With a Sterling you could probably put in in the wire to the alternator field coil. Or just wire it to a beeper.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[chris w]

This do for £1.27?

<a href="http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?kw=temperature%20switch&tier1=Electronic+Components&tier2=Sensors&tier3=Thermal+Sensors&tier4=Auto+reset+thermal+switches&moduleno=35569" target="_blank">http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.asp...;moduleno=35569</a>

 

 

With a Sterling you could probably put in in the wire to the alternator field coil. Or just wire it to a beeper.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

That'll do it. It would be best IMHO to use the thermal switch to both open the field wire and sound an alarm (I could make you a simple circuit to do this Mike). Ensure you smear the active face with thermal paste before mounting it it on the alternator.

 

Chris

[blackrose]

This do for £1.27?

<a href="http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?kw=temperature%20switch&tier1=Electronic+Components&tier2=Sensors&tier3=Thermal+Sensors&tier4=Auto+reset+thermal+switches&moduleno=35569" target="_blank">http://www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.asp...;moduleno=35569</a>

 

 

With a Sterling you could probably put in in the wire to the alternator field coil. Or just wire it to a beeper.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Thanks, Pete & Chris. Which one of those do you think would be the correct temp to shut off the alternator controller in the event of overheating?

 

Also, even if I wired it to the field wire to shut off the controller, presumably the alternator's own internal regualtor would mean the alternator was still charging (although at a lower rate perhaps) and thus still overheating? Surely once at that sort of temp it wouldn't have a chance to cool adequately even if the external reg was shut down? And wouldn't this also be the case even with your flash alternator temp sensing PDAR controllers?

Edited February 11, 2008 by blackrose