Order of Electricity

[Felshampo]

4 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Put a red armband around your left arm, and a green on the other

Good idea I'll try that. 

 

4 minutes ago, Robbo said:

These things can be re-wired from standard and usually only one of those panels would be used so to really figure it out you should ask the previous owner or get someone who's comfortable with electrics to figure it out to really have a look.

I asked the previous owner and he had no idea. I don't think he ever used shore power though. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Felshampo

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, Felshampo said:

I asked the previous owner and he had no idea. I don't think he ever used shore power though. 

I think you’ll need to do some cable tracing. By ‘you’ I mean someone confident and competent to do so if you’re not comfortable doing so yourself. 

[rusty69]

The order of electricity is

 

AC~BC~DC~EC~PC........simples

[Felshampo]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I think you’ll need to do some cable tracing. By ‘you’ I mean someone confident and competent to do so if you’re not comfortable doing so yourself. 

It is a bit like spaghetti behind that panel but it's worth a try. The consumer unit is well labelled. 

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

It is a bit like spaghetti behind that panel but it's worth a try. The consumer unit is well labelled. 

Try to draw it on a bit of paper as you go. If the cables don’t have any labels then you could put little flags on them with insulating tape. Obviously disconnect any shore power, turn off the genny and turn off the inverter before you start. 

 

Once the wiring is drawn then then you can re-draw it neater but at the initial stages just get it down. 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

It is a bit like spaghetti behind that panel but it's worth a try. The consumer unit is well labelled. 

There must be a wiring diagram (it is a requirement) in the RCD documentation folder - that should answer the questions.

[Felshampo]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There must be a wiring diagram (it is a requirement) in the RCD documentation folder - that should answer the questions.

I don't have an RCD documentation folder ....................as far as I know.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Felshampo said:

I don't have an RCD documentation folder ....................as far as I know.

How old is the boat, out of interest?

[Felshampo]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

How old is the boat, out of interest?

6 years

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Felshampo said:

6 years

Then it should have an RCD unless it was a home build. 

[Felshampo]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Then it should have an RCD unless it was a home build. 

It's got 2

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

It's got 2

RCD being in this instance Recreational Craft Directive documentation.  

[Felshampo]

14 minutes ago, WotEver said:

RCD being in this instance Recreational Craft Directive documentation.  

In that case no. The original owners probably still have it. The previous owner certainly would have given it to me if he had one. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Felshampo

[WotEver]

31 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

In that case no. The original owners probably still have it. The previous owner certainly would have given it to me if he had one. 

I believe that the builders have to keep a copy by law, so they may be able to sort one out for you, probably at a small cost. 

[Felshampo]

14 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I believe that the builders have to keep a copy by law, so they may be able to sort one out for you, probably at a small cost. 

Unfortunately it was the 23 boat built by Sandhills Narrowboats who ceased trading one boat later. 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I believe that the builders have to keep a copy by law, so they may be able to sort one out for you, probably at a small cost. 

From the RCD :

 

Technical Documentation
The builder is required to prepare technical documentation and to retain this for at least ten years from the date of
completion of the last boat of the model. The objective of the Technical Documentation is to enable the boat’s
compliance with the RCD to be demonstrated. It shall cover the design, manufacture and operation of the boat and
contain any required Notified Body certificates.

 

Technical documentation
The technical documentation shall be compiled by the manufacturer and comprise all relevant data or means used
to ensure compliance with the ESR
The technical documentation shall enable understanding of the design, manufacture and
operation of the product, and shall enable assessment of conformity with the requirements of
this Directive.
The documentation shall contain so far as relevant for assessment:
(a) a general description of the type,
(b) conceptual design and manufacturing drawings and schemes of components,
sub-assemblies, circuits, etc.,
(c) descriptions and explanations necessary for the understanding of said drawings and
schemes and the operation of the product,
(d) a list of the standards referred to in Article 5, applied in full or in part, and
descriptions of the solutions adopted to fulfil the essential requirements when the
standards referred to in Article 5 have not been applied,
(e) results of design calculations made, examinations carried out, etc.,
(f) test reports, or calculations namely on stability according to section 3.2 of the
Essential Requirements and on buoyancy according to section 3.3 thereof (Annex I.A),
(g) exhaust emissions test reports demonstrating compliance with section 2 of the
Essential Requirements (Annex I.B),
(h) noise emissions test reports or reference boat data demonstrating compliance with
section 1 of the Essential Requirements (Annex I.C).

3 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Unfortunately it was the 23 boat built by Sandhills Narrowboats who ceased trading one boat later. 

Whoever wound the company it is bound to keep the documentation for 10 years.

[Felshampo]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

From the RCD :

 

Technical Documentation
The builder is required to prepare technical documentation and to retain this for at least ten years from the date of
completion of the last boat of the model. The objective of the Technical Documentation is to enable the boat’s
compliance with the RCD to be demonstrated. It shall cover the design, manufacture and operation of the boat and
contain any required Notified Body certificates.

 

Technical documentation
The technical documentation shall be compiled by the manufacturer and comprise all relevant data or means used
to ensure compliance with the ESR
The technical documentation shall enable understanding of the design, manufacture and
operation of the product, and shall enable assessment of conformity with the requirements of
this Directive.
The documentation shall contain so far as relevant for assessment:
(a) a general description of the type,
(b) conceptual design and manufacturing drawings and schemes of components,
sub-assemblies, circuits, etc.,
(c) descriptions and explanations necessary for the understanding of said drawings and
schemes and the operation of the product,
(d) a list of the standards referred to in Article 5, applied in full or in part, and
descriptions of the solutions adopted to fulfil the essential requirements when the
standards referred to in Article 5 have not been applied,
(e) results of design calculations made, examinations carried out, etc.,
(f) test reports, or calculations namely on stability according to section 3.2 of the
Essential Requirements and on buoyancy according to section 3.3 thereof (Annex I.A),
(g) exhaust emissions test reports demonstrating compliance with section 2 of the
Essential Requirements (Annex I.B),
(h) noise emissions test reports or reference boat data demonstrating compliance with
section 1 of the Essential Requirements (Annex I.C).

Whoever wound the company it is bound to keep the documentation for 10 years.

That would be so useful! 

I have the Declaration of Conformity which refers to the "owners handbook" but I guess the original owners kept/lost that. 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Felshampo

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

That would be so useful! 

I have the Declaration of Conformity which refers to the "owners handbook" but I guess the original owners kept/lost that. 

It is not obligatory for the Owners manual to contain the wiring diagrams so it may not be in it, or, it may be.

However it is a legal requirement for the "technical document" to be have those details retained for 10 years.

[Sea Dog]

8 hours ago, Mike55 said:

I have a Mastervolt unit. A few months ago the shore supply tripped (due to water in the 16A trailing socket) when it was in charger only mode. On re-establishing the supply the charger wouldn't work. Turned out all it needed was a reset, which involves switching to inverter mode and then returning to charger position. It's been fine since.

Pleased to hear that. I didn't find that reset mode in the manual, but I did try various off and on again resets to no avail.  Mine works fine as an inverter, but no longer as a charger or shore supply pass through.  A return to the Mastervolt repair loop in the Netherlands is 400 odd quid and if they don't think it's fixable, they keep it and offer you 25% off their RRP on a replacement (or you can pay them to post it back).  I took the option to switch to Victron separate charger and inverter units which got me back up and running quickly, but have yet to decide whether to seek repair or whatever on the Mastervolt.

[Felshampo]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is not obligatory for the Owners manual to contain the wiring diagrams so it may not be in it, or, it may be.

However it is a legal requirement for the "technical document" to be have those details retained for 10 years.

Any suggestions as to how I could get a copy of this document from a builders that was ony two men who dissolved the company in 2016? 

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

 

Any suggestions as to how I could get a copy of this document from a builders that was ony two men who dissolved the company in 2016? 

It depends on how hard you want to try.

 

Were they a registered company ?

If you check on companies house website it will show the names of the directors.

You can then find the Directors home address and contact them and ask them for a copy of the Technical Documents for your 'build'.

 

I've done half of it for you :

 

The company Secretary and Director names and address are shown here :

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03858507/officers

 

Their Registered Office (probably an accountant or Solicitors) may possibly be holding their documentation for the legally required period of time.

 

Registered Office :  4 Church Green East, Redditch, Worcestershire, B98 8BT

 

Edit to add :

Further research shows that the business operating from that address is indeed a firm of Accountants.

"Rigbey Harrison"

 

http://www.rigbeyharrison.co.uk/

Edited November 22, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Felshampo]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It depends on how hard you want to try.

 

Were they a registered company ?

If you check on companies house website it will show the names of the directors.

You can then find the Directors home address and contact them and ask them for a copy of the Technical Documents for your 'build'.

 

I've done half of it for you :

 

The company Secretary and Director names and address are shown here :

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03858507/officers

 

Their Registered Office (probably an accountant or Solicitors) may possibly be holding their documentation for the legally required period of time.

 

Registered Office :  4 Church Green East, Redditch, Worcestershire, B98 8BT

 

Edit to add :

Further research shows that the business operating from that address is indeed a firm of Accountants.

"Rigbey Harrison"

 

http://www.rigbeyharrison.co.uk

Thanks for that Alan. I'll give them a ring and let you know how I get on. 

[Sea Dog]

15 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There must be a wiring diagram (it is a requirement) in the RCD documentation folder - that should answer the questions.

It's a nice idea, but my boat is built to RCD by a reputable builder (Piper) and I don't find the documentation all that helpful. There's certainly no wiring diagram.

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

It's a nice idea, but my boat is built to RCD by a reputable builder (Piper) and I don't find the documentation all that helpful. There's certainly no wiring diagram.

It is not compulsory to include it in the 'RCD Owners Manual" but it is compulsory to keep it in the 'Technical Documents' which are retained by the manufacturer for a minimum of 10 years after the last vessel of the type is manufactured. 

This is so if there are any 'issues' the RCD authorities can inspect the 'remains' of the boat against the build specification and identify if the manufacturer was at fault, or, if it was as a result of 'owner tampering / modifications',

 

As an aside, my boats "Owners Manual" (31 pages) does contain 5 pages on the 'Electrical System' including a basic wiring schematic, and location and function of all switches, fuses etc etc.

The "operators manual" is 110 pages of 'everything' and includes both schematics and colour photos of apparatus and its location.

 

eg : Owners manual - Location of Switches, Switchboard and Appliances

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Sea Dog]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As an aside, my boats "Owners Manual" ...

Narrowboat?  Yours does sound quite comprehensive, but I suspect there's a difference between reputable blue water and most muddy ditch boat builders.

 

The 10 year Tech Docs retention thing is interesting though.