Straight sided boats ?

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

 Joshua, or Josher, style, refers to Fellows, Morton & Clayton boats, or boats built in their style; the name comes from a director of the original company, one Joshua Fellows.

Again I think you have missed noddyboater's subtlety.

Whilst Joshua Fellows was indeed a director of FMC, when it came to the boats they wee only ever "Joshers".  "Joshua style" is a modern invention that seems to fail to realise this, unless the intention is that the boats look like an FMC director, rather than an FMC boat.

(Pedant mode off!)

[alan_fincher]

13 minutes ago, Athy said:

Not, then, by Tyler Wilson who are based in Yorkshire.

I don't know who coined the term originally, bit the builders would have been people like Les Allen I suggest.

I would agree it probably predated Jonathan Wilson or Tim Tyler trading under their own names.  (Mr Wilson I believe was a nephew of Mike Heywood, and originally learnt his trade from him.  Mike Heywood (who also traded as Evan's & Son) boats are usually "Birmingham Square, so I suspect Mr Wilson's probably are too.

I have no idea when Wilson or Tyler first traded under their own name, or from where originally.  The merged Tyler Wilson, is of course a very modern thing - they used until only a few years ago to be separate businesses.

EDIT:

Tyler Wilson are certainly now using the term - see the advert on this page.

Edited March 2, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Athy]

15 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Again I think you have missed noddyboater's subtlety.

Whilst Joshua Fellows was indeed a director of FMC, when it came to the boats they wee only ever "Joshers".  "Joshua style" is a modern invention that seems to fail to realise this,

I thought that "josher" was a colloquial corruption of "Joshua", rather as "Birnigum" derives from "Birmingham".

I do not know Noddyboater and I took his comment as meaning that he was not aware of the term "josher", apologies if I have got that wrong.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Athy

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, Athy said:

I do not know Noddyboater and I took his comment as meaning that he was not aware of the term "josher", apologies if I have got that wrong.

I'll leave that point for Noddyboater to clarify if they want to.

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Athy

[Athy]

4 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I don't know who coined the term originally, bit the builders would have been people like Les Allen I suggest.

I would agree it probably predated Jonathan Wilson or Tim Tyler trading under their own names.  (Mr Wilson I believe was a nephew of Mike Heywood, and originally learnt his trade from him.  Mike Heywood (who also traded as Evan's & Son) boats are usually "Birmingham Square, so I suspect Mr Wilson's probably are too.

I have no idea when Wilson or Tyler first traded under their own name, or from where originally.  The merged Tyler Wilson, is of course a very modern thing - they used until only a few years ago to be separate businesses.

All this is correct, but my comment referred to Noddyboater's assertion that Tyler and Wilson had probably invented the term.

[alan_fincher]

Just now, Athy said:

All this is correct, but my comment referred to Noddyboater's assertion that Tyler and Wilson had probably invented the term.

Hard to say, I guess.

Builders in Birmingham may have built with wide baseplates, without giving the style" a name.

Later builders copying a style from Birmingham builders may have chosen to dub it "Birmingham Square" even if not themselves building in Birmingham, (and I freely admit I don't know where Tyler or Wilson first built boats or when).

I was not aware of the term until I would say the 1990s, so I don't know its origins.

Having just Googled the expression I see Waterways World have also at some stage said in their Q&A section that it relates to BCN day boats originally - I very much doubt that is true, but then much of what has been written about boat history in WW is not accurate.

[MtB]

I remember having the term "Birmingham Square" explained to me when I had my first narrow boat shell built back in the mid 1980s. 

It would have been one of the builders we approached. These were Hancock and Lane, Orion, Peter Nichols, and Colecraft. Colecraft at the time had only just started up IIRC, and Hancock and Lane were winding their shell building business down if that helps date it. 

 

Hmmm apologies for managing to right-justify this post. Can't correct it by editing!

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman

[Movin' on]

7 hours ago, Athy said:

Not, then, by Tyler Wilson who are based in Yorkshire.

Direct quote from a well respected surveyor on this subject

 

It was predominantly 'Brum' based boat builders that built on a 6' 10" base plate setting the hull side plate perpendicular to the base plate - hence 'Birmingham square. Today Johnathan Wilson, Tim Tyler, Brinklow and quite a few more build to this style. Other builders build up off a 2metre plate 6' 6" and then set the plates  with a slight tumblehome up to lower gunwale level.

[rusty69]

14 hours ago, PMcC said:

So I'll just have to fork out for a good looking boat.

Don"t get a narrowboat then!