Gas fitting for oven and hob

[Johny London]

I've been reading all the threads about gas on this forum, as my mind now turns to getting my hob and oven hooked up.

My intention is to get hold of a single length of pipe, run it from lockers to appliances, all properly clipped up etc, then get someone to connect all the hoses, valves, regulators etc, and test and certify.

As I understand it I will need :The correct regulator(s), bubble test, hose, bulkhead fitting(s) 2x13kg bottles. 3/8" or 1/2" annealed copper pipe to BS EN1057. Also isolator and hose for oven and a tee to the hob. (I'd like the hob done in pipe without hose as it is accessible).

But I'm unclear as to the arrangement at the gas bottle end of things. I have 2 gas lockers (one port one starboard, astern). I don't know how they would both connect to the supply pipe. Or what happens with changeover valves etc?

I saw that someone was able to calculate size of pipe and regulators required - well I have a hob with 1x3kw, 1x1.75kw, 1x1kw burners, and the oven is stated as 2.5kw oven, 2.3kw grill but 2.5kw total (I presume you can't oven and grill together though it is twin cavity). The length of run between the nearest locker and the appliances is approximately  10-12 metres. I'm hoping to run it a couple inches up from the floor, all the way through various areas to the kitchen.

The hob comes with an lpg adapter nozzle and three lpg jets, the oven is a Belling made especially for LPG only.

Just trying to figure it all out at this stage, get an idea of cost and what's involved before going ahead. Thanks for any info.

[mrsmelly]

30 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I've been reading all the threads about gas on this forum, as my mind now turns to getting my hob and oven hooked up.

My intention is to get hold of a single length of pipe, run it from lockers to appliances, all properly clipped up etc, then get someone to connect all the hoses, valves, regulators etc, and test and certify.

As I understand it I will need :The correct regulator(s), bubble test, hose, bulkhead fitting(s) 2x13kg bottles. 3/8" or 1/2" annealed copper pipe to BS EN1057. Also isolator and hose for oven and a tee to the hob. (I'd like the hob done in pipe without hose as it is accessible).

But I'm unclear as to the arrangement at the gas bottle end of things. I have 2 gas lockers (one port one starboard, astern). I don't know how they would both connect to the supply pipe. Or what happens with changeover valves etc?

I saw that someone was able to calculate size of pipe and regulators required - well I have a hob with 1x3kw, 1x1.75kw, 1x1kw burners, and the oven is stated as 2.5kw oven, 2.3kw grill but 2.5kw total (I presume you can't oven and grill together though it is twin cavity). The length of run between the nearest locker and the appliances is approximately  10-12 metres. I'm hoping to run it a couple inches up from the floor, all the way through various areas to the kitchen.

The hob comes with an lpg adapter nozzle and three lpg jets, the oven is a Belling made especially for LPG only.

Just trying to figure it all out at this stage, get an idea of cost and what's involved before going ahead. Thanks for any info.

Hi

 

One of my boats had seperate gas lockers either side at the back end. One locker had all the pipework in and was connected to the system whilst the other was simply to store the spare bottle in. When one ran out it only took seconds to disconect and swop over and as they last about 3 months it was no big deal. If you want my advice even if you connect them both to the system dont use a auto change over switch simply let one run out and manualy change or you will run out of gas one day believe me. This boat has auto change over but I ensure the full gas bottle for back up is turned off on its outlet valve so I have to turn it on myself reminding me to get a new bottle.

[cuthound]

I do exactly the same with my auto-changeover valve. One full bottle is always turned off so that I don't accidentally end up wirh two empty bottles miles from anywhere. 

 

Edited to change "mules" back to "miles"

Edited March 10, 2017 by cuthound
Spillung

[Johny London]

What's the auto changeover valve like? Would it even be possible to have the second bottle connected to it, as far as it's location is concerned?

In fact, I was thinking of going gas for a generator, so maybe the two separate bottles would work for me.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Johny London
More text

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, Johny London said:

What's the auto changeover valve like? Would it even be possible to have the second bottle connected to it, as far as it's location is concerned?

In fact, I was thinking of going gas for a generator, so maybe the two separate bottles would work for me.

Are you planning on running the generator 'on the boat', (not recommended) or lifting it off and running it on the bank-side (recommended)

If running on the boat you need to investigate exhausts piping etc etc - it was a generator* running on board that killed the family with Carbon-Monoxide last year.

 

* Not a 'properly installed' marine generator, it was just a portable generator sat on the deck.

[Johny London]

Well, I assumed that out on the deck it would have been ok - especially as no worries with petrol - so I don't know then. Mind you, if I'm moored to port the stern cabin stinks of diesel fumes after running the engine for a while anyway - as that's the side the exhaust is and having it right by the bank seems to do that. My Co monitor doesn't seem to care.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Johny London said:

My Co monitor doesn't seem to care.

Well - that's all right then !!

[Neil Smith]

I have 2 gas lockers on each side on the stern of the cruiser deck, as said before one is plumbed in with bubble tester, regulator and pipework, the other just holds the spare bottle, I don't think you could link them as the connecting pipe would have to run through the engine room making it a bss fail I would think. I also have an LPG honda Genny that I intend to run a long pipe to the bank.

Neil

[Keeping Up]

It is definitely possible to have two lockers, each with a connected bottle, as that is what I have on my cruiser stern.  In my case there is one suitably vented locker on each side of the back door, each containing a 13 kg bottle. In one locker there is a regulator with auto changeover together with the take off into the boat. There is a fixed welded steel pipe running through the engine bay, providing a gas tight interconnection between the two lockers. This has an internal diameter of about an inch.

In the locker with the changeover valve, connection to the bottle is by a conventional flexible pigtail, but the connection to the other input of the change over is NOT by flexible pipe. Instead there is a fixed copper pipe which runs from there through the welded tube to a fixed bulkhead-mounted adaptor in the other locker and it is from there that the pigtail connects to the second bottle. This counts as fixed plumbing and is therefore not subject to the restrictions of length and manufacture which apply to flexible pigtails. 

This arrangement is fully BSS compliant and I have a letter from the BSS office to confirm this fact. It passes the inspection every time.

[Neil Smith]

16 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

It is definitely possible to have two lockers, each with a connected bottle, as that is what I have on my cruiser stern.  In my case there is one suitably vented locker on each side of the back door, each containing a 13 kg bottle. In one locker there is a regulator with auto changeover together with the take off into the boat. There is a fixed welded steel pipe running through the engine bay, providing a gas tight interconnection between the two lockers. This has an internal diameter of about an inch.

In the locker with the changeover valve, connection to the bottle is by a conventional flexible pigtail, but the connection to the other input of the change over is NOT by flexible pipe. Instead there is a fixed copper pipe which runs from there through the welded tube to a fixed bulkhead-mounted adaptor in the other locker and it is from there that the pigtail connects to the second bottle. This counts as fixed plumbing and is therefore not subject to the restrictions of length and manufacture which apply to flexible pigtails. 

This arrangement is fully BSS compliant and I have a letter from the BSS office to confirm this fact. It passes the inspection every time.

Well that makes my thought wrong, but I still prefer manual change over so I can start looking for gas when one runs out.

Neil

[Keeping Up]

47 minutes ago, Neil Smith said:

Well that makes my thought wrong, but I still prefer manual change over so I can start looking for gas when one runs out.

Neil

Fair enough but for me, with the central heating being powered by gas, life wouldn't be worth living if the gas ran out during the night in wintertime so that the boat was cold when the crew woke up in the morning. Ditto if the oven went out while she was cooking the dinner. And with the changeover valve being easily visible just by lifting the lid of the locker by the back door it is a habit to check regularly that it hasn't changed over.

[Johny London]

Thanks for the useful replies. I think for now I will go for a single connected bottle in the locker that's on the side I want the pipe run. The other one can have the second bottle which can normally be used for a gas generator. If one runs out I have the option of swapping out a bottle to tide me over. And perhaps in the fullness of time adapt to Keeping Up's system.

Neil - what connections do I need for the gas generator? I was thinking of some kind of quick release take off point - so maybe the bottle would be fitted to the regulator, then hose to a bulkhead type fitting then maybe something I have heard of but not seen - a BBQ connecting point? So I can whip the genny out quick Also I need to think about where the gas unit thing goes for convenience on the genny or at the bottle end/in the locker?

Also - I can't find the thread now (searching gas or lpg is bringing up no threads at all) but there was a member who could work out the correct pipe size for an installation. I'd be grateful to know this so I can make a start with things.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Johny London

[widebeamboy]

Johnny, sent you a message about a gas fitter who is also BSS liveaboard gas registered.  Might be worth giving him a call as you'll need a new BSS once it has all been installed anyway and he will be in a good position to have already been onboard your boat. 

[Johny London]

Hi yes, thanks for that - I do intend to give him a call anyway.

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Neil - what connections do I need for the gas generator? I was thinking of some kind of quick release take off point - so maybe the bottle would be fitted to the regulator, then hose to a bulkhead type fitting then maybe something I have heard of but not seen - a BBQ connecting point? So I can whip the genny out quick Also I need to think about where the gas unit thing goes for convenience on the genny or at the bottle end/in the locker?

Where do you plan on actually running the generator once you have 'connected it' via the QR point ?

In a Locker ?

On Deck ?

On the 'bank' ?

Somewhere else ?

What distance will the generator be from the gas-cylinder ?

[Johny London]

Well, I've been advised that on the bank is the best place for it, so on the bank, right next to the boat, to avoid any probs with the gas pipe getting run over by cyclists etc?

[Johny London]

An update: I'm almost ready to go ahead - gas man primed and I have the 3/8" pipe ready to run with suitable clips. I'm unsure of which type of bulkhead fitting I need for the locker - if it's 3/8" to rubber tube, then I'm ready to go to tube then regulator and hey presto. If it's from 3/8" to 3/8" then I guess I would need more connections to get to rubber pipe, but it might be handier if I want to add a bubble tester later, I think those prefer a pipe connection in to them? Or can you get different sorts?

Also I must decide on my pipe run - I wanted it about 10cm above the floor, simply because it will be safely out of the way - especially rather than passing it just under the gunnel very close to the bed which concerned me in case it gets knocked or pulled somehow. I've been advised that gunnel sort of height is preferable, but that low down is acceptable if there are no joins, so I'd like your thoughts on that before I go ahead!

I'll soon be cooking with gas