Listing

[Arthur Brown]

Good that you've found it, not so good that it's there to find. Keep pumping til it's gone, then pump again as needed til you can find the source. The issue with small leaks is that they are hard to find BUT as the leak develops other possible waterleaks (sink drains, etc and air vents ) go below the waterline then things go quickly from bad to sunk

[Murflynn]

do you have a shower pump in a plastic box, or a proper in-line pump?

 

if it's the former they are notorious for leaking when they get blocked up with hairs.

[AlexK91]

So I've finished pumping for tonight as water level got to low for the bilge pump to continue I've got a stick that I've marked the current waterline on as there's a small amount left. And can measure again in morning.

 

Good news is my boat is no longer listing doors and drawers stay open and things don't go rolling about including me.

 

I'm not sure what kind of pump my shower has as everything is sealed away behind panels etc so.

May take so,e time to find the issue. I think a lot of the works for the shower is under the shower tray. I don't know if the leak is from water going from hot water tank to the taps and showier head or if it's when I push the button to pump water out from water tray as believe they are separae when I push it it does seem all the water gets pumped out from the utter on side of boat but will be trial and error like the suggestion of food dye though might have to give that a go...taking it that would work also for sinks as well one at s time to see if it's those that are leaking

. Glad I've got the water out the boat sits really well now still very slight list but I know that's down to the waste tank as it's trim is how it is when there is some waste in there.

[Rickent]

Glad you are getting sorted. At least now you know you have a leak , you can monitor it whilst investigating without the risk of sinking.

I must admit i was concerned for you yesterday.

[Guest]

if you consider the bilge to be a simple rectangular space of the same horizontal area as the plan view of the boat at the waterline, then 1" of water will take the boat down the same amount. Archimedes, innit?

 

there is a bit of buoyancy provided by the parts of the plan area that do not form part of the bilge, so if the cabin bilge is 12m long, 750 litres of water which represents 2" depth of water in the bilge will take us down about 1.6".

 

however the bottom is not horizontal so all the water will move aft to the rear cabin bulkhead, in which case the average depth will increase by 1.6". the front will probably rise (say by 4") in which case the back will sink, by about 7".

 

for a 16 tonne narrowboat these changes in trim work out to be approximately correct when calculating moments about the longitudinal centre of buoyancy.

 

conclusion - if your water tank dumps all its contents into the bilge you could well see a change in the water level in the weed hatch of 7".

 

 

 

typically

Makes sense, as the water will run to the back end. I know on my old boat which was quite short, if the diesel tank was full, and the water tank was empty, it had a marked effect on the draft at the stern. Now if a full water tank had dumped into the cabin, and made its way to the rear, then I could see the top of the weedhatch being below the waterline in this instance.

do you have a shower pump in a plastic box, or a proper in-line pump?

 

if it's the former they are notorious for leaking when they get blocked up with hairs.

My first thoughts when I saw that soapy water was involved. Those type of drain pumps are the work of the devil.

So I've finished pumping for tonight as water level got to low for the bilge pump to continue I've got a stick that I've marked the current waterline on as there's a small amount left. And can measure again in morning.

 

Good news is my boat is no longer listing doors and drawers stay open and things don't go rolling about including me.

 

I'm not sure what kind of pump my shower has as everything is sealed away behind panels etc so.

May take so,e time to find the issue. I think a lot of the works for the shower is under the shower tray. I don't know if the leak is from water going from hot water tank to the taps and showier head or if it's when I push the button to pump water out from water tray as believe they are separae when I push it it does seem all the water gets pumped out from the utter on side of boat but will be trial and error like the suggestion of food dye though might have to give that a go...taking it that would work also for sinks as well one at s time to see if it's those that are leaking

. Glad I've got the water out the boat sits really well now still very slight list but I know that's down to the waste tank as it's trim is how it is when there is some waste in there.

Glad you are onto the problem. When you press the button that you mention to drain the shoer, do you hear a sort of gulp, gulp, gulp noise? Or a steady motor sound?

[AlexK91]

Makes sense, as the water will run to the back end. I know on my old boat which was quite short, if the diesel tank was full, and the water tank was empty, it had a marked effect on the draft at the stern. Now if a full water tank had dumped into the cabin, and made its way to the rear, then I could see the top of the weedhatch being below the waterline in this instance.

 

My first thoughts when I saw that soapy water was involved. Those type of drain pumps are the work of the devil.

 

Glad you are onto the problem. When you press the button that you mention to drain the shoer, do you hear a sort of gulp, gulp, gulp noise? Or a steady motor sound?

In regards to the noise someone else asked me that I believe its a steady motor sound. Just check by pushing button and its a steady noise

Glad you are getting sorted. At least now you know you have a leak , you can monitor it whilst investigating without the risk of sinking.

I must admit i was concerned for you yesterday.

Oh don't worry I was too....luckily it hadn't been getting any worse the listing but I think that was because the bilge was full and no more water could actually get in. The people in my marina had been discussing it too apparently which is good to know that they've been looking out for me when I've been at work.

[Murflynn]

So I've finished pumping for tonight as water level got to low for the bilge pump to continue I've got a stick that I've marked the current waterline on as there's a small amount left. And can measure again in morning.

 

Good news is my boat is no longer listing doors and drawers stay open and things don't go rolling about including me.

 

I'm not sure what kind of pump my shower has as everything is sealed away behind panels etc so.

May take so,e time to find the issue. I think a lot of the works for the shower is under the shower tray. I don't know if the leak is from water going from hot water tank to the taps and showier head or if it's when I push the button to pump water out from water tray as believe they are separae when I push it it does seem all the water gets pumped out from the utter on side of boat but will be trial and error like the suggestion of food dye though might have to give that a go...taking it that would work also for sinks as well one at s time to see if it's those that are leaking

. Glad I've got the water out the boat sits really well now still very slight list but I know that's down to the waste tank as it's trim is how it is when there is some waste in there.

having any electro-mechanical kit sealed away where it can't be inspected is a recipe for trouble.

 

I suggest you rectify that as soon as possible.

[Rickent]

My gulper is under the bathroom sink, nice and easy to get at, as is my water pump and accumulator.

[MtB]

having any electro-mechanical kit sealed away where it can't be inspected is a recipe for trouble.

 

I suggest you rectify that as soon as possible.

 

 

Seconded....

[MtB]

In fact my preference is for pumps, batteries, inverters and anything electrical to be at the FRONT of any cupboards so as to be easily accessible for inspection/testing/repair. Because they go wrong with monotonous regularity, as you'll eventually come to understand and good access makes for easy fixing.

[AlexK91]

Ill have to start having a look around for the pumps then see if I can find where they are. They may be more visible than I think just got to find them. As I say learning as I go now.

[chubby]

As mentioned above and to help ram message home .... if you have one of those " boxes " with pipes at either end and a pump inside with a clear lid then rip it out and replace it with a Whale Gulper shower pump . They are far more reliable. They are not cheap but neither are they an " arm & a leg " . They are worth it for the peace of mind & reliability they provide .

You now have an opportunity arising from a near crisis . If you make arrangements during this episode to " future proof " all this plumbing you end up with a better boat & a better home afterwards . Essentially this means fitting any new pumps where you can easily check & test it , as previously mentioned.

A Gulper pump does not need to be directly under the shower tray . My pump is next door under the galley units and they can pump a considerable distance to the skin fitting to eject the water overboard .

So now your crisis is almost over , look into re arranging your shower or bathroom- tho its a pain , it also an opportunity and you d be daft not to take it .

cheers

 

ETA : were all learning as we go . With boats its the only way innit ? I ve had bucketloads of help off the forum folk , so if you providing the info needed , you ll continue to get good help

cheers

Edited January 6, 2017 by chubby

[cuthound]

It you suspect that it is the shower pump leaking, and that the shower pump makes a constant whitting sound when used, then it is very likely you will find that the shower drains into a box with a pump in it. The pump empties the box. Either can leak.

 

The pump and box are likely to be located very close to or even under the shower, so start looking there.

 

As others have suggested, a Whale Gulper pump is a better solution, as it takes water from the shower and pumps it directly overboard. They are not prone to blockages from hair etc, and can be run dry without harm.

 

Should be relatively easy to replace the existing arrangement as the Whale Gulper can be located almost anywhere within reason.

 

Edited to note I have cross posted with Chubby. Great minds think alike...

Edited January 6, 2017 by cuthound

[Murflynn]

In fact my preference is for pumps, batteries, inverters and anything electrical to be at the FRONT of any cupboards so as to be easily accessible for inspection/testing/repair. Because they go wrong with monotonous regularity, as you'll eventually come to understand and good access makes for easy fixing.

very true.

 

I have found that in 99% of cases, the only difficult installation and maintenance jobs are those where access is limited.

 

Ensure good access and you will have a happy easygoing relationship with your boat.

[MtB]

very true.

 

I have found that in 99% of cases, the only difficult installation and maintenance jobs are those where access is limited.

 

Ensure good access and you will have a happy easygoing relationship with your boat.

 

 

There is an almost irresistible urge comes over people installing an item of equipment, to conceal it from view and have it 'out of the way'.

 

"Oh lets tuck the batteries away under the floor in the engine room then screw the floor down with no access". "Let's put the water pump right at the back of this big storage area under the foredeck". "Lets fit the alternator under the fixed floor next to this vintage engine."

 

All done by professional boat builders on my own boats. This almost sub-conscious instinct or urge in installers of equipment to hide it away and conceal it doesn't exist in us technicians who mend the stuff though!

[AlexK91]

Luckily a lot of stuff is fsilry accessible in my boat. I have a lid I can take off next to the water tank to check the pump the batteries are in the engine area with just a simple wooden box lid over them so very easy to get to.

 

After looking around to the left of the shower cubicle under the sink there is a panel that can be removed and I'm hoping removing that will let me see the pump and where the water from shower goes. Lots of people even people around me have said that the noise it makes is probably a box with a pump and a gulper will be better so will check and if so will be replacing which will hopefully be a better option.

[Murflynn]

 

 

There is an almost irresistible urge comes over people installing an item of equipment, to conceal it from view and have it 'out of the way'.

 

"Oh lets tuck the batteries away under the floor in the engine room then screw the floor down with no access". "Let's put the water pump right at the back of this big storage area under the foredeck". "Lets fit the alternator under the fixed floor next to this vintage engine."

 

All done by professional boat builders on my own boats. This almost sub-conscious instinct or urge in installers of equipment to hide it away and conceal it doesn't exist in us technicians who mend the stuff though!

and yet in an industrial environment all the bits requiring inspection and maintenance are stuck right there - in your face, literally sometimes (i.e. at shoulder/head height).

 

good boats should adopt similar, if slightly modified, principles.

[chubby]

Luckily a lot of stuff is fsilry accessible in my boat. I have a lid I can take off next to the water tank to check the pump the batteries are in the engine area with just a simple wooden box lid over them so very easy to get to.

 

After looking around to the left of the shower cubicle under the sink there is a panel that can be removed and I'm hoping removing that will let me see the pump and where the water from shower goes. Lots of people even people around me have said that the noise it makes is probably a box with a pump and a gulper will be better so will check and if so will be replacing which will hopefully be a better option.

Be assured : replacing a box type shower pump with a whale gulper IS a better option . There's no " hopefully " about it . With those box type pumps it isnt a case of " if " it lets me down , but " when " .

If thats what you find then ripping it out and swapping it for a gulper is a wise move . There are umpteen things that can go wrong on your boat but a gulper won t let you down . This means one potential headache less .That level of peace of mind is worth the money IMHO .

Even if it turns out not to be the problem & you find a leaky plumbing joint for instance , change the pump anyway as it 'll let you down eventually.

Cheers

Edited January 6, 2017 by chubby

[AlexK91]

Be assured : replacing a box type shower pump with a whale gulper IS a better option . There's no " hopefully " about it . With those box type pumps it isnt a case of " if " it lets me down , but " when " .

If thats what you find then ripping it out and swapping it for a gulper is a wise move . There are umpteen things that can go wrong on your boat but a gulper won t let you down . This means one potential headache less .That level of peace of mind is worth the money IMHO .

Even if it turns out not to be the problem & you find a leaky plumbing joint for instance , change the pump anyway as it 'll let you down eventually.

Cheers

I'm seeing the whale gulpers vary in price massively are they all much different or is it just how powerful they are? Seen some that are £85 all they way to £350

[chubby]

Im not sure . Aswell as shower pumps they make macerator pumps for toilets & its these that are the more costly . I expect the £ 80 to be nearer the cost , maybe a little more ?

 

ETA : My chum professor google suggests a Whale Gulper 220 is around £ 85 . Im sure a 220 is what i have onboard but im not there to check till later on .

Edited January 6, 2017 by chubby

[Guest]

I think our /gulper was just about 100 quid recently. We had one of those tupperware box with a pump in things, and it emptied itself into the bilges a few times.

I already had a hole in the floorboards, so araldited some magnets to a piece of plywood, fixed the board to the bottom plate magnetically, then screwed the Gulper to the board. easy to get at and inspect, plus makes an inspection point for bilges.

[AlexK91]

That's a good idea like the sound of magenta save drilling any more holes anywhere once I get down there thag may be how I do it.

 

On that question I wonder if magnets would work for attaching a bilge pump into the engine bilge as need to fit a new one.

[Guest]

That's a good idea like the sound of magenta save drilling any more holes anywhere once I get down there thag may be how I do it.

 

On that question I wonder if magnets would work for attaching a bilge pump into the engine bilge as need to fit a new one.

My bilge pump just sits on the bottom plate. I suppose it depends on the nature of the bilge pump.

[lulu fish]

I'm not sure why a bilge pump in a box would be more prone to leaks than a gulper. I have a pump in a plastic box and I don't see how it could leak unless the box gets damaged, which would be hard, or if the pipe joints fail which could also happen with a gulper. Mine has got clogged with hair a few times but that was easy to fix, a new bilge pump is cheap if the pump goes. A gulper is the better option, but if you are on a tight budget a pump in a box is perfectly serviceable.

On that question I wonder if magnets would work for attaching a bilge pump into the engine bilge as need to fit a new one.

 

There isn't usually any need to fix the pump in place, just sit it under the stern gland and gravity will keep it in place

Edited January 6, 2017 by lulu fish

[Tony Brooks]

That's a good idea like the sound of magenta save drilling any more holes anywhere once I get down there thag may be how I do it.

 

On that question I wonder if magnets would work for attaching a bilge pump into the engine bilge as need to fit a new one.

 

Most readily available bilge pumps draw the bilge water through slots around the base so if you raise in on a board or magnets it will leave even more water in the bilge. If its a Jabsco Water Puppy + strainer or a Gulper then it can be mounted on the swim so magnets may be an idea there. Only a hose and strainer would drop into the bilge.