alan_fincher Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Your assumption is correct however, it does not give consumption in Kg but in B.Th.U's, which is 22,000, or aprox 6.45 Kw. As I do not know the calorific valuie of Propane compared with weight, i am unable to challenge or agree with your assesment. No doubt someone will be along shortly with a calculation. A Morco D61 is quoted as 9.4Kw, so I think I am correct that working at full power it will be drawing gas through the pipe at a considerably faster rate than the Heatmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Why are plumbers always so precious about their so called "qualifications"? The reality is that any idiot can do simple plumbing, and many of them are qualified plumbers. Any idiot can write a computer program too, but when compared to a well structured program that follows good protocols is a thing apart, especially when it comes to future maintenance. Your scorn illustrates your limited knowledge of the subject of plumbing. I agree simple plumbing only requires an idiot but plumbing can get complex really quickly and easily, and then knowledge and experience sorts the idiots from the more capable. The plumbers who are precious about their qualifications tend towards the 'idiot' end of the continuum though, I agree. And there are plenty of them about. I'd be interested to see your attempt at the calculations of the pipe sizes necessary as requested in the OP, given your scorn about plumbers' abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system 4-50 Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 I'd be interested to see your attempt at the calculations of the pipe sizes necessary as requested in the OP, given your scorn about plumbers' abilities Calculating pipe sizes for reasonably standard boat lpg systems is not difficult if - 1. You can get hold of a description of the relevant method. 2. You can get hold of the relevant data, particularly that relating to pipe characteristics. 3. You are reasonably "ept". The gas plumbing "guild" do their best to ensure this information is not straightforwardly available, particularly (2). If the gas lobby got into car maintenance you would not be allowed to fill up the windscreen washer bottle unless you had a qualification that also covered gearbox dismantling and re-assembly. Now where is my gas-free bunker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Calculating pipe sizes for reasonably standard boat lpg systems is not difficult if - 1. You can get hold of a description of the relevant method. 2. You can get hold of the relevant data, particularly that relating to pipe characteristics. 3. You are reasonably "ept". The gas plumbing "guild" do their best to ensure this information is not straightforwardly available, particularly (2). If the gas lobby got into car maintenance you would not be allowed to fill up the windscreen washer bottle unless you had a qualification that also covered gearbox dismantling and re-assembly. Now where is my gas-free bunker? Plain silly, especially 2) Plenty of freely avaiable books about gas plumbing contains the required charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system 4-50 Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Plain silly, especially 2) Plenty of freely avaiable books about gas plumbing contains the required charts. Perhaps you're right. This app looks interesting but I can't get to see the price, ipad not working at the mo. GB GAS L.P.G. PIPE SIZING CALCULATOR By GB-GAS.CO.UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 ref my post #12. the calculation couldn't be better described, and all the parameters are available on the web-page. it still requires some competence at arithmetic, but life's like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Any idiot can write a computer program too, but when compared to a well structured program that follows good protocols is a thing apart, especially when it comes to future maintenance. Your scorn illustrates your limited knowledge of the subject of plumbing. I agree simple plumbing only requires an idiot but plumbing can get complex really quickly and easily, and then knowledge and experience sorts the idiots from the more capable. The plumbers who are precious about their qualifications tend towards the 'idiot' end of the continuum though, I agree. And there are plenty of them about. I'd be interested to see your attempt at the calculations of the pipe sizes necessary as requested in the OP, given your scorn about plumbers' abilities Quite the reverse actually Mike, It is because I do have a reasonable knowledge of plumbing that I am able to make my comments. In my time I have installed two gas fired central Heating boilers, added radiators to an existing central heating circuit, designed and installed a thermostaticly controlled zone system*, and changed a Primatic water system to a conventional gravity system, not to mention commonplace things like installing and plumbing sinks, baths, toilets etc. and all before home computers and YouTube videos to show me how to do it. Just think what more I could have done, if I had more than limited knowledge. * Subsequently adopted by Honeywell as their Plan Y plus. Edited September 25, 2016 by David Schweizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 Interesting discussion. I'd never tried plumbing until I couldn't find anyone to do my own boat. So far I've installed the whole plumbing system which works very well (so far:) . I'd also never tried welding or working on an engine. All these things can be done with patience and practice. I suppose with gas though yer could blow yerself and the missus up so that's quite serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 I suppose with gas though yer could blow ....................... the missus up so that's quite serious. depends how hard you try ....................... ooh err, coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 (edited) Interesting discussion. I'd never tried plumbing until I couldn't find anyone to do my own boat. So far I've installed the whole plumbing system which works very well (so far:) . I'd also never tried welding or working on an engine. All these things can be done with patience and practice. I suppose with gas though yer could blow yerself and the missus up so that's quite serious. It isn't really that difficult, if you can do compression plumbing that does not leak water you can do gas plumbing on a boat, there is no significant difference. Solder joint plumbing requires a bit more skill, but that is not relevant to gas fitting on a boat, which should be compression fitting. Edited September 25, 2016 by David Schweizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 There does seem to be a thing where if you ask people for info about gas fitting techniques it's a given that you are about to bodge it out of rubber hose and Jubilee clips. Of course it's an skill and trade thats not to be taken lightly and there are standards to be aware of but that doesn't mean that we can't openly discuss techniques and common practices, i.e using imperial sizes rather than metric due to wall thickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 There does seem to be a thing where if you ask people for info about gas fitting techniques it's a given that you are about to bodge it out of rubber hose and Jubilee clips. Of course it's an skill and trade thats not to be taken lightly and there are standards to be aware of but that doesn't mean that we can't openly discuss techniques and common practices, i.e using imperial sizes rather than metric due to wall thickness. Or assume that people who are not qualified gas fitters don't know how to do it in accordance with good practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Sorry to re-liven the discussion. Thanks for everyone's comments, I'm currently consulting a gas qualified engineer to assess wether I can do this myself or get help. One question ,( pardon my ignorance) we've established that imperial pipe is more suitable than metric but What is the danger of using 3/8 if 1/2 is required? ( providing the whole thing is safely and competently installed of course) Is it loss of flow, I.e. oven going down or are there other serious problems/dangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bag 'o' bones Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Sorry to re-liven the discussion. Thanks for everyone's comments, I'm currently consulting a gas qualified engineer to assess wether I can do this myself or get help. One question ,( pardon my ignorance) we've established that imperial pipe is more suitable than metric but What is the danger of using 3/8 if 1/2 is required? ( providing the whole thing is safely and competently installed of course) Is it loss of flow, I.e. oven going down or are there other serious problems/dangers? It is perfectly acceptable to use metric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 It is perfectly acceptable to use metric. Rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 But what about the issue of potential undersizing? Poor appliance performance or dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 But what about the issue of potential undersizing? Poor appliance performance or dangerous? Undersized pipes will lead to pressure loss. Pressure loss can lead to incomplete combustion. Incomplete combustion can lead to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Gulp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bag 'o' bones Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Rubbish. Not very helpful mike. I was under the impression the imperial/metric debate had been put to bed here: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=85122&page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Also, I've just been reading the Bss for running the pipes close to electric cables. All the cables are in conduit but are there any guidelines on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 I read the other thread. So the pipe wall must be min of 0.6mm for anything up to 12mm. That still doesn't help me with my diameter calculation though. I did speak to one gas engineer who was slightly surprised I'm considering 1/2 inch but that was only his initial estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 Have a read of this: http://copperplumbing.org.uk/sites/default/files/content_attachments/domestic-gas-planning-and-sizing.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 This looks very helpful and it seems well explained. I'll have a proper study tomorrow when I'm more awake. Thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polishicebreaker Posted September 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 In case anyone wants to help me out on this, I'm struggling to find the right data to do the equation! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 (edited) what data do you need that isn't provided in the link in post #12? ......... as my Dad used to say .... 'The Lord Helps Those Who Help Themselves'. Edited September 29, 2016 by Murflynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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