Voyeurs ' Coming Out '

[Klong]

Hi Everyone,

We have been lurking and browsing this excellent forum for many a month and decided that it was time to announce ourselves. Finally took the plunge and put a deposit on our first boat last Thursday, a 60' Trad. It's strange that the boat we have decided upon is diametrically opposed to the ' perfect ' design and layout of the one we envisaged when we started this journey!

Anyway......The buyers remorse is now kicking in, i.e why has no one else bought this boat before us ?

Why has it been reduced in price over the last few months ? What evils lurk in the dark recesses? Are we going mad and have we missed some obvious shortcomings?

To allay these fears we are going for a detailed Survey, our question is how detailed is a ' detailed ' survey ? Does the Surveyor check the engine, heating, plumbing etc. etc. down to whether the taps actually work OK in the sinks ?

We have yet to speak with the Surveyor but want to be fully armed when we do.

Many thanks,

Steve & Nikki

[Barry]

Hi Everyone,

We have been lurking and browsing this excellent forum for many a month and decided that it was time to announce ourselves. Finally took the plunge and put a deposit on our first boat last Thursday, a 60' Trad. It's strange that the boat we have decided upon is diametrically opposed to the ' perfect ' design and layout of the one we envisaged when we started this journey!

Anyway......The buyers remorse is now kicking in, i.e why has no one else bought this boat before us ?

Why has it been reduced in price over the last few months ? What evils lurk in the dark recesses? Are we going mad and have we missed some obvious shortcomings?

To allay these fears we are going for a detailed Survey, our question is how detailed is a ' detailed ' survey ? Does the Surveyor check the engine, heating, plumbing etc. etc. down to whether the taps actually work OK in the sinks ?

We have yet to speak with the Surveyor but want to be fully armed when we do.

Many thanks,

Steve & Nikki

 

Woo hoo!!!! welcome and I envy you!!!

 

I reckon from my research that you have done the right thing by going for the detailed survey - its what I would do if I were in your position

 

But then thats only because I've been following the site

[Big Steve]

Is a boat survey anything like a house survey? If it is it's hardly worth bothering, all they do is state the obvious and put get out clauses on anything their not sure of. The last house I bought I got a structural engineers report. Cost me £150, told me the building was structurally sound, but didn't go on about room sizes, carpet types, loft insulation and all the other rubbish which you can ascertain for yourself in an hour.

 

Is it the same with boats? Comments please.

[John Orentas]

The surveyor will do whatever you ask him to do, but he will be expensive. Many people opt for a hull only survey, with his little gizmo he will be able to tell you to what extent the hull has eroded or worn away. For the rest of it someone who you already know that knows something about engines and other systems will do just as well without costing you a fortune.

 

Just like surveyors of houses they will not give any king of meaningful guarantee of their work.

[Guest]

I have gone for hull/engine surveys in the past. Otherwise they take your hard earned and prattle on about soft furnishing and suchlike. As you will probably change the interior anyway (I have today been aboard our previous boat and didn't recognise it inside at first), I would be tempted to ensure that the hull/engine/services are sound, and there isn't six inches of water under the cabin floor etc.

[carlt]

Just like surveyors of houses they will not give any king of meaningful guarantee of their work.

If you buy a house, pay for a full structural survey from a qualified surveyor and they miss something, then you have every right to sue them for the mistake they made and the costs incurred. If you just go for the survey required by the lender to determine the value of the house then your chances of recompense are remote.

 

If you buy a boat after having had a full survey done by a qualified boat surveyor and they miss something, they have the same responsibility as every other person who charges for a professional inspection.

 

This is why the engine, diesel boiler and electrical components will probably be listed as 'untested' because they can't guarantee that they won't break down the moment they are switched on (nor could you expect them to).

[blackrose]

Is a boat survey anything like a house survey? If it is it's hardly worth bothering, all they do is state the obvious and put get out clauses on anything their not sure of. The last house I bought I got a structural engineers report. Cost me £150, told me the building was structurally sound, but didn't go on about room sizes, carpet types, loft insulation and all the other rubbish which you can ascertain for yourself in an hour.

 

Is it the same with boats? Comments please.

 

A boat survey is a bit different from a survey on a house. Having never been involved in the purchase of "property" I might be wrong, but I think a house survey is often a formality required by the terms of one's mortgage arrangement and there's little actual surveying involved.

 

With boats you can either commission a survey or not - but a hull survey at the very least is a very wise move because the information from the ultrasonic thickness measurements taken should be crucial in your decision on whether to buy the boat or not. Without the survey you have no way of knowing the hull condition and could be buying a well-painted wafer thin hull.

Edited April 9, 2007 by blackrose

[carlt]

A boat survey is a bit different from a survey on a house. Having never been involved in the purchase of "property", I might be wrong but I think a house survey is often a formality required by the terms of one's mortgage arrangement and there's little actual surveying involved.

In my post I did differentiate between a full, structural survey and the minimum required by the lender.

 

Steve, the last structural survey I paid for cost over 1k and ran to some 30+ pages. The last lender's survey was £200 and ran to 2 pages of nothing (though he did say the house was structurally sound when it wasn't) but meant I got the dosh.

[Klong]

In my post I did differentiate between a full, structural survey and the minimum required by the lender.

 

Steve, the last structural survey I paid for cost over 1k and ran to some 30+ pages. The last lender's survey was £200 and ran to 2 pages of nothing (though he did say the house was structurally sound when it wasn't) but meant I got the dosh.

[Klong]

Sorry about the above 'empty' reply......Still learning the mechanics of the forum.

 

Many thanks for all your replies.

 

The problem we have is that the boat is over 100 miles from where we want it to be, and on brokerage. A detailed survey would hopefully make sure that most of it works prior to committing ourselves to the journey home. In addition, we would prefer to spend a couple of hours with the Vendor to check out all the little idiosyncrasies, is this an unusual request for a boat on brokerage ? If so, does anyone know whether a representative from the Brokerage typically conducts a handover so we can familiarise ourselves with the workings of the beast ! ( ABNB are the Brokers )......

 

Or....As we are relatively ' green ' should we get someone to transport the boat for us.....Is this the cowards way out ?

 

Regards

 

Steve

[carlt]

Sorry about the above 'empty' reply......Still learning the mechanics of the forum.

 

Many thanks for all your replies.

 

The problem we have is that the boat is over 100 miles from where we want it to be, and on brokerage. A detailed survey would hopefully make sure that most of it works prior to committing ourselves to the journey home. In addition, we would prefer to spend a couple of hours with the Vendor to check out all the little idiosyncrasies, is this an unusual request for a boat on brokerage ? If so, does anyone know whether a representative from the Brokerage typically conducts a handover so we can familiarise ourselves with the workings of the beast ! ( ABNB are the Brokers )......

 

Or....As we are relatively ' green ' should we get someone to transport the boat for us.....Is this the cowards way out ?

 

Regards

 

Steve

Though not having dealt with them directly myself, ABNB have a very good reputation, and they would expect you to test drive any boat you buy and go over the controls with you.

 

The surveyor would probably not give his guarantee on an engine, after all he will be conducting his survey out of water so the engine couldn't be tested then. If you're planning a 100 mile round trip and aren't confident of the mechanics then an inspection/service by a marine engineer and membership of that river rescue organisation would probably be recommended.

[Alec Gatherer]

Or....As we are relatively ' green ' should we get someone to transport the boat for us.....Is this the cowards way out ?

 

Regards

 

Steve

If you buy it, getting it back is something to look forward to with eager anticipation. It's all about confidence, which you will aquire rapidly I'm sure. You could ask if anyone on here fancies de-virtualising themselves and accompanying you for a while. When you have done the deal, post location details and see if anyone is to hand and available.

[Keeping Up]

A good surveyor will give the boat a very thorough inspection, and will give you lots of useful advice about it. In particular he is likely to find all sorts of things which, if they are serious, will save you from buying yourself a major headache; if they are not serious, but need to be put right, you will have some good bargaining points with which to ask the seller to reduce the price.

[blackrose]

Sorry about the above 'empty' reply......Still learning the mechanics of the forum.

 

Many thanks for all your replies.

 

The problem we have is that the boat is over 100 miles from where we want it to be, and on brokerage. A detailed survey would hopefully make sure that most of it works prior to committing ourselves to the journey home. In addition, we would prefer to spend a couple of hours with the Vendor to check out all the little idiosyncrasies, is this an unusual request for a boat on brokerage ? If so, does anyone know whether a representative from the Brokerage typically conducts a handover so we can familiarise ourselves with the workings of the beast ! ( ABNB are the Brokers )......

 

Or....As we are relatively ' green ' should we get someone to transport the boat for us.....Is this the cowards way out ?

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

If you have time why not move it yourself - it's the only way to learn and by the time you get to your destination you'll know what you're doing. Just make sure you set off with sufficient equipment (all fenders in place, bow, stern & centreropes, windlasses, pole & boathook, canal map, BW key, etc) and have a search on the forum on how to safetly operate a lock going uphill and downhill if you've never done this before. Also, look over the engine to make sure the oil & coolant levels are correct & fanbelts at correct tension and in good condition. While you're down there learn how to remove and securely replace the weedhatch cover (ENGINE OFF & STARTER BATTERY MASTER SWITCH OFF), just in case anything gets wrapped around your propellor on the trip. Put your forearms through the weedhatch and feel the prop.

 

Otherwise, I'm sure there are some experienced retired couples around who might move your boat in exchange for a nice trip if you put the word about. If so, go along for the trip. Watch what they do and get them to instruct you until you can gradually take over.

Edited April 12, 2007 by blackrose

[Klong]

Hi ,

If all goes well with the Survey we have decided to bring her home ourselves. Many thanks for all the input, could I trouble you good folk with two more questions.......

 

Firstly, What ' Rescue ' services are available and what level of cover do you recommend ?

Which is the quickest route from the Crick area to the Llangollen Canal ?. As much as I need a holiday, work commitments have dictated I can't afford too much time off at the moment.

 

Many thanks

 

Steve

Edited April 13, 2007 by Klong

[bottle]

Two links for you Canalplan AC left hand side 'plan a journey' and I know of only one 'rescue service' River Canal Rescue

 

Not used them myself, waiting for my boat

[honey ryder]

Hi ,

If all goes well with the Survey we have decided to bring her home ourselves. Many thanks for all the input, could I trouble you good folk with two more questions.......

 

Firstly, What ' Rescue ' services are available and what level of cover do you recommend ?

Which is the quickest route from the Crick area to the Llangollen Canal ?. As much as I need a holiday, work commitments have dictated I can't afford too much time off at the moment.

 

Many thanks

 

Steve

 

Hi, welcome,

 

I asked myself the exact same questions when i bought my boat last year, why had there been no offers on it, why had it been for sale for so long, what was wrong with it etc etc.

after the survey came back, apparently very little was wrong with it, we just happened to get lucky and find a nice boat at a great price. weve had to spend lots to get it up to scratch, despite the survey showing little of concern.

something that didnt show up at the survey was the fact the alternator was duff. this was masked by the fact that the boat needed a complete set of new batteries.

our surveyor was very thorough ( despite missing the alternator being duff) and i was very pleased with his work, he even encouraged me to be there when he surveyed and explained what he was looking for.

 

I wouldnt try to rush moving the boat, take your time, take several weekends if you have to, if anything goes wrong you are never far from a boat yard or marina. you can just tie up to the side and sort it out in your own time. its not like a car on the road, if you are on the motorway then you need rescuing, but on a boat its never like that. ( unless you are drifting in the middle of a tidal way)

people tend to help out and I consider most other friendly boaters my rescue service, because lets face it, if you see a stricken boater you are going to stop and help out arent you... i cant imagine anyone would just cruise past without so much as a "can i help?"

[Linty]

........... if anything goes wrong you are never far from a boat yard or marina. you can just tie up to the side and sort it out in your own time. its not like a car on the road, if you are on the motorway then you need rescuing, but on a boat its never like that. ( unless you are drifting in the middle of a tidal way)

people tend to help out and I consider most other friendly boaters my rescue service, because lets face it, if you see a stricken boater you are going to stop and help out arent you... i cant imagine anyone would just cruise past without so much as a "can i help?"

 

Exactly.

 

We did just that the other weekend. Out with daughter and b/friend for an hour or so after our boatwarming/naming - daughter spotted a carboot sale (yep! can't quite believe it myself, carbooting from the boat) at Stainforth - could we stop. As we did so, we were alongside another nb Neap Tide. He'd broken down, conversations/investigations ensued re. fuses and cause. Ended up curtailing our outing, NO WAY could we leave him stranded. Ended up turning round beyond the bridgehole, breasting up and returning back.

 

In fact it was quite pleasurable, a new experience for us - not the helping out but the breasting up, and we've made some new friends along the way. Malcolm, the boat's owner and his young friend 11yr old Ryan. Never mind that young Ryan mocked our 'girly buttons' - (bow thrusters) he was quick enough to have a go with them when the lopsidedness of the tie up (their boat half the length of ours) made it a bit awkward to get off the towpath after offloading crew to work Thorne lock when the breeze got up. (Ended up hand hauling them in anyway)

 

Point being of this, is that THEY may not be able to return the favour themselves, but I look on it as a circle, and someone somewhere down the line will repay that favour to us when we possibly have a bit of trouble.

[Machpoint005]

Good decision, running it home yourselves. As former boat owners, boat share schemers, and now reborn boat owners, we are in the process of repatriating Egret from Slough to the bottom end of the Macc. One leg completed so far: .....to Milton Keynes and beyond!!!....

 

Seriously. take it steady, learn on the job, and don't worry. The best thing about mistakes is... you only make them once. Having hung the stern end of the baseplate on the top course of bricks (going down north of Tring summit) one tends to get somewhat philosophical.

[Fiona G]

Hi guys

 

We bought a 5 year old ex-shared ownership which we had surveyed at a cost of about £500. The guy took the whole day and we had a complete booklet at the end of it with hints, tips, photos, diagrams and everything, with a code for stuff that needed doing urgently vs stuff that could wait, vs ongoing maintenance, from small to large items. On top of all that, he spent the last hour of the survey explaining things to us in great detail.

 

Having said that, we have since had unexpected expense (gearbox and heater issues) that we couldn't really expect him to find without dismantling it all. We thought he was great value for money. It has also helped that my partner is handy and could do a lot of stuff himself.

 

We brought her home (Herts) from near Litchfield ourselves, but made sure we did a Helmsman's Certificate day course first. Well worth the few quid, and it gave us the confidence to spend those 9 blissful days as relative newcomers to Narrowboating. However, we still learn something from everyone we meet on the canals, and it makes cruising a real pleasure. Everyone is always exceptionally willing to help newcomers. So go for it!! If you enjoy it half as much as I have over the past 9 months, you'll have a ball!

 

Fiona

[Mert]

Could you please tell me if it is worth having a hull survey on a ten year old boat?

[Jim]

Hi ,

If all goes well with the Survey we have decided to bring her home ourselves. Many thanks for all the input, could I trouble you good folk with two more questions.......

 

Firstly, What ' Rescue ' services are available and what level of cover do you recommend ?

Which is the quickest route from the Crick area to the Llangollen Canal ?. As much as I need a holiday, work commitments have dictated I can't afford too much time off at the moment.

 

Many thanks

 

Steve

I would recommend River Canal Rescue www.rivercanalrescue.co.uk I have used them for the last two years and found their service very good. If you are as new to the boating game as you say you are dare I ask if you have sorted out a mooring for your boat on the Llangollen Canal yet?

[Klong]

Hi Jim,

We have already committed to a berth in Swanley Bridge Marina. After the recent survey however, the berth will be vacant for a while longer !!!!.....The survey revealed some relatively expensive problems, but the show-stopper for us was severe condensation/damp behind the headlining along the boat, and the polystyrene insulation was not tight against the steel cabin walls resulting in condensation here aswell.

We are now considering a new, partially fitted-out boat from Liverpool Boat Co.

Cheers

Steve

[bottle]

Could you please tell me if it is worth having a hull survey on a ten year old boat?

 

Yes but a full survey would be better.

[Lady Muck]

Could you please tell me if it is worth having a hull survey on a ten year old boat?

 

Yes definately, at least, get it out of the water, even a five year old boat can have dark secrets that are only revealed with a crane-out and survey (as we found out).