Council Tax within Licence Fee?

[Paul C]

I interpreted the OP as the marina part-justifying its (probably high) charges by claiming that some of the money directly goes to the council. Whether this is just PR by the marina, or completely true, is undetermined but between the moorer and the marina - at the end of the day, he has an option to not berth at that marina, just like the marina has the option to not renew a mooring agreement upon renewal. Its one of the advantages of having a boat.

 

I dare say the "council tax" department is better at collecting money, than the "planning" department is at identifying and actioning where non residential marinas are in fact used residentially - which seems to be what's happened here.

 

Its probably a case of "don't rock the boat - especially when you're in it" - in more ways than one!

[Graham Davis]

My marina berthing fees includes corporation tax and the marina pays for refuse collection to a private company.The pontoon lighting and water is supplied and maintained by the marina and I am not connected to mains sewage , so therefore not liable for council tax.

Should the council wish to become involved I suspect my home is not up to their minimum standard for inhabitation.

 

Corporation Tax?? That is a tax on business profits, so I'm not sure you have got that right.

As stated previously, very few Councils collect refuse from Businesses for nothing, so a charge would be quite normal/

I can think of plenty of houses that have no street lighting, a private water supply, and no mains drainage but they still pay Council Tax.

As has been stated many times on here, Council Tax is NOT calculated on the value of the boat, as it has been legally defined as a boat is a CHATTEL and therefore not "rateable", but on the value of the Mooring, which is why they are generally in Band A.

[Graham Davis]

 

Yes. ... or more accurately, from the Valuation Office Agency.

 

Has the District Valuation Officer actually stated "the boat" or "the mooring"?

There is a very big difference.

As has been stated many times on here in the past, a boat is legally defined as a chattel.

[Chagall]

 

Has the District Valuation Officer actually stated "the boat" or "the mooring"?

There is a very big difference.

As has been stated many times on here in the past, a boat is legally defined as a chattel.

 

The Mooring.

[Chagall]

I interpreted the OP as the marina part-justifying its (probably high) charges by claiming that some of the money directly goes to the council.

 

Incorrect interpretation. The marina mooring charge is fairly standard and not high at all, as far as I know it does not inculde any council tax fee.

[Paul C]

OK no worries, this is the bit I misinterpreted:

 

a portion of the mooring fee is towards the council emptied marina bins

[valrene9600]

Incorrect interpretation. The marina mooring charge is fairly standard and not high at all, as far as I know it does not inculde any council tax fee.

 

So if the council are taking coucil tax from YOU then the mooring must be residential because they are putting a rateable value on the mooring and charging you.

If as you say the marina fees are standard then you are lucky to have an official residential mooring. I always thought a group of residents in a marina paid a reduced tax because of lack of full services. Could be wrong perhaps others can say if they pay minimum bricks and mortar tax for a mooring.

Edit to enter,,official,,,

Edited August 29, 2015 by valrene9600

[DrakeDruid]

Out of interest do you claim housing benefit?

If the council charge and take payments on moorings that have no residential status they have effectively granted permission by the act of taking payments for a residential status so will be liable to refund monies if another department refuses planning as they have broken their own law.

Alternatively move your boat by its length every two weeks as this will mean you have access to your boat across private land not a mooring!

[Paul C]

they have effectively granted permission by the act of taking payments for a residential status

 

No they haven't - the council tax department aren't the ones who grant permission - its much more complicated than that!

 

 

if another department refuses planning as they have broken their own law.

 

 

So it IS the planning department, as you've just said (and contradicted yourself in the process).

 

I don't think they have broken the laws - the "person" breaking the law is the owner of the land, the council are pretty much immune.

 

Yes, its an anomoly, yes its an anomoly within the council between different "departments" but as said before, don't rock the boat especially if you're in it. If it were seen through to a conclusion it could have massive negative consequences for a great many people in the boating community.

[Higgs]

I interpreted the OP as the marina part-justifying its (probably high) charges by claiming that some of the money directly goes to the council. Whether this is just PR by the marina, or completely true, is undetermined but between the moorer and the marina - at the end of the day, he has an option to not berth at that marina, just like the marina has the option to not renew a mooring agreement upon renewal. Its one of the advantages of having a boat.

 

I dare say the "council tax" department is better at collecting money, than the "planning" department is at identifying and actioning where non residential marinas are in fact used residentially - which seems to be what's happened here.

 

Its probably a case of "don't rock the boat - especially when you're in it" - in more ways than one!

 

 

That sort of statement gets no less irritating, no matter how many times I read it. Could it be I have the option to disregard it as a matter of choice - and do.

[Chagall]

 

 

Yes, its an anomoly, yes its an anomoly within the council between different "departments" but as said before, don't rock the boat especially if you're in it. If it were seen through to a conclusion it could have massive negative consequences for a great many people in the boating community.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not "rocking the boat" nor complaining, my initial query was regarding the licence fee, I was under the impression a portion of it went to councils for waste services. The query was answered, I was mistaken. I discover I am paying only twice and not triplicate for my bin bag removal, some in my mooring fee and some in my council tax... and still have to carry the bag! Such is life on a boat. Whatever I eat gets carried twice, no worries.

 

I do however regard band A in a marina to be unfair, for a shared jetty, no mains sewerage, shared water supply, et cetera, but I do have right of appeal to address that. My terms and conditions say my berth is not exclusive and so since my mooring 'could' be occupied by somebody who is non domestic then a composite is fairer and is I believe what happens in many other marinas.

[Higgs]

 

Just to be clear, I'm not "rocking the boat" nor complaining, my initial query was regarding the licence fee, I was under the impression a portion of it went to councils for waste services. The query was answered, I was mistaken. I discover I am paying only twice and not triplicate for my bin bag removal, some in my mooring fee and some in my council tax... and still have to carry the bag! Such is life on a boat. Whatever I eat gets carried twice, no worries.

 

I do however regard band A in a marina to be unfair, for a shared jetty, no mains sewerage, shared water supply, et cetera, but I do have right of appeal to address that. My terms and conditions say my berth is not exclusive and so since my mooring 'could' be occupied by somebody who is non domestic then a composite is fairer and is I believe what happens in many other marinas.

 

 

If you can be forced to move from the mooring you have, to another, the band A seems to be over the top and the marina could have probably negotiated the hereditament valuation. Maybe your marina operator has just gone for the easier non involvement option and let it run as is.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Higgs

[Paul C]

 

 

That sort of statement gets no less irritating, no matter how many times I read it. Could it be I have the option to disregard it as a matter of choice - and do.

 

Is it untrue though? The fact remains that people can, and do, change moorings. I know you choose not to use yout boat for travelling, but most boaters do.

 

 

 

Just to be clear, I'm not "rocking the boat" nor complaining, my initial query was regarding the licence fee, I was under the impression a portion of it went to councils for waste services. The query was answered, I was mistaken. I discover I am paying only twice and not triplicate for my bin bag removal, some in my mooring fee and some in my council tax... and still have to carry the bag! Such is life on a boat. Whatever I eat gets carried twice, no worries.

 

I do however regard band A in a marina to be unfair, for a shared jetty, no mains sewerage, shared water supply, et cetera, but I do have right of appeal to address that. My terms and conditions say my berth is not exclusive and so since my mooring 'could' be occupied by somebody who is non domestic then a composite is fairer and is I believe what happens in many other marinas.

 

No worries it was more to do with the wider, general picture rather than your specific situation. Yes there is an element of paying twice (or more) for the same thing but in reality you're paying twice for a proportion of the "thing" - for example a marina moorer who also cruises regularly, fills up with water while at the marina but whilst out and about, uses CRT water points.

[Higgs]

 

Is it untrue though? The fact remains that people can, and do, change moorings. I know you choose not to use yout boat for travelling, but most boaters do.

 

 

Yes, well, before I started to become aware of things about marinas that I find patently absurd, I was happy in my ignorance. Now, I am becoming less ignorant, do not agree with the absurdities. The things I do not agree with about this marina are also widespread and normal. Normal does not mean good or acceptable. CCing is out of the question and nearly every other marina has the normal and unacceptable element.

 

The marina still fulfils many of my requirements, the absurdity though remains, to be considered and questioned. Although moving maybe an option, it is not a solution I wish to employ as it will do nothing to address the unacceptable element. For the moment, what cannot be cured must be endured - not immutable, in the long run.

[Paul C]

 

Yes, well, before I started to become aware of things about marinas that I find patently absurd, I was happy in my ignorance. Now, I am becoming less ignorant, do not agree with the absurdities. The things I do not agree with about this marina are also widespread and normal. Normal does not mean good or acceptable. CCing is out of the question and nearly every other marina has the normal and unacceptable element.

 

The marina still fulfils many of my requirements, the absurdity though remains, to be considered and questioned. Although moving maybe an option, it is not a solution I wish to employ as it will do nothing to address the unacceptable element. For the moment, what cannot be cured must be endured - not immutable, in the long run.

 

Respectfully I'd ask you start a new thread if you want to discuss NAA, this thread is about council tax. Its an interesting topic in itself which many forum members might have an input to, which would be missed in this thread.

[Higgs]

 

Respectfully I'd ask you start a new thread if you want to discuss NAA, this thread is about council tax. Its an interesting topic in itself which many forum members might have an input to, which would be missed in this thread.

 

I will respectfully decline discussing the NAA at length, today. Most of my posts have kept to the topic of the thread. Since being here for the last post, I've been out and fixed the cars wiper problem. For now, I'm chuffed.

[Paul C]

No worries, I mowed the lawn, walked the dog and had a lovely ice lollie - the logistics of buying an ice lolly then untying the dog without the lolly ending up, in the dog, are quite complicated. But that's off topic, sorry.....

[MtB]

Out of interest do you claim housing benefit?

If the council charge and take payments on moorings that have no residential status they have effectively granted permission by the act of taking payments for a residential status so will be liable to refund monies if another department refuses planning as they have broken their own law.

Alternatively move your boat by its length every two weeks as this will mean you have access to your boat across private land not a mooring!

 

 

Blimey. Can I have some of whatever you're smoking please?

[Graham Davis]

I do however regard band A in a marina to be unfair, for a shared jetty, no mains sewerage, shared water supply, et cetera, but I do have right of appeal to address that. My terms and conditions say my berth is not exclusive and so since my mooring 'could' be occupied by somebody who is non domestic then a composite is fairer and is I believe what happens in many other marinas.

 

 

As already stated, there are plenty of "bricks and mortar" properties that do not have those services, but they still pay Council Tax, sometimes at higher bands than Band A, so why should you be different?

As an example, someone around here lives in an old converted chapel. His water supply comes from a private well, his sewerage is to a cess pit, the nearest street light is about 5 miles away, he has to carry his rubbish to the nearest road, and his electricity is from wind and a turbine in the stream on his property, but he is in Band C, as that is the assessed value of his house.

[DrakeDruid]

 

 

Blimey. Can I have some of whatever you're smoking please?

Sounds great don't it Mike?

I have been to court in very similar circumstances and had it thrown out in my favour.

Although I had no bins or sewage facility but my mooring terms stated that the boat yard had to move boats around which made it impossible for the council to charge me council tax.

I'll find the letter so you and Paul C can print off a copy and roll it up and smoke one each.

My opinion is based on life experience not armchair speculation ladies!

[Paul C]

Sounds great don't it Mike?

I have been to court in very similar circumstances and had it thrown out in my favour.

Although I had no bins or sewage facility but my mooring terms stated that the boat yard had to move boats around which made it impossible for the council to charge me council tax.

I'll find the letter so you and Paul C can print off a copy and roll it up and smoke one each.

My opinion is based on life experience not armchair speculation ladies!

 

Yeah let's have a look at the letter, it sounds interesting. Its probably better to look at the letter than your paraphrasing of the circumstances surrounding it.

[MtB]

Sounds great don't it Mike?

I have been to court in very similar circumstances and had it thrown out in my favour.

Although I had no bins or sewage facility but my mooring terms stated that the boat yard had to move boats around which made it impossible for the council to charge me council tax.

I'll find the letter so you and Paul C can print off a copy and roll it up and smoke one each.

My opinion is based on life experience not armchair speculation ladies!

 

 

That has nothing to do with your comment about obtaining implied PP to which I was replying, and is is patent rubbish.

[rgreg]

 

 

That would depend on the likelihood of the marina being able to replace the moorer. Turning business down is not a marina's most natural choice. And anyway, it seems the council have already come to some agreement with the marina. Marinas like boat business, but the moorer is not usually party in forming agreements between itself (the marina) and other authorities.

 

In my experience, the moorer is used in these agreements and the deals are done anyway. I do not agree that put up or shut up is doing the boater any favours, in the long run. It merely makes the boater's case insignificant.

Yes, there clearly has been communication between the marina owners and the council who have agreed to settle for a council tax payment and ignore the fact that the moorings are officially "non-residential". It seems the council and marina owners are happy with this arrangement so I think it's best left at that.

[Higgs]

Yes, there clearly has been communication between the marina owners and the council who have agreed to settle for a council tax payment and ignore the fact that the moorings are officially "non-residential". It seems the council and marina owners are happy with this arrangement so I think it's best left at that.

 

 

That the moorer doesn't really exist or is of no consequence? No muscle and all that. Don't ruffle any feathers. It's called being taken advantage of. I think you'll find that thousands of moorers are in this used position, being taken advantage of.

[MtB]

 

 

That the moorer doesn't really exist or is of no consequence? No muscle and all that. Don't ruffle any feathers. It's called being taken advantage of. I think you'll find that thousands of moorers are in this used position, being taken advantage of.

 

 

In what way are these moorers who choose to live on non-resi moorings being taken advantage of?

 

I'd have thought it was the opposite. The moorers are blatantly abusing the system.