Type E -- Middle Northwich

[chris_r]

There are only 8 motor boats in this class but which present day boat still has the original counter ???

 

As the new owner of THEOPHILUS, and as it needs a new stern end, I am interested to get the shape right

 

I await all the wisdom from the forum :-)

 

 

 

[Laurence Hogg]

Too late tonight to go digging for pics tonight, but I think Tycho if still "as was" at Matty's will be a close contender.

[alan_fincher]

Too late tonight to go digging for pics tonight, but I think Tycho if still "as was" at Matty's will be a close contender.

 

I'm pretty certain that Tycho has a rebuilt counter, but may be wrong. IIRC, it has rivets in the guards, which I don't think strictly it should have. Speedwheel or DerekR will know, of course.

 

EDIT: Can just about see ivets on guards here, I think.......

 

 

There is quite a bit of evidence that "Sickle" could be on her 4th counter, as there seem to be two intermediate incarnations, both of which had the guards reasonably roughly spaced, rather than the usual Northwich spacing. Probably her least original bit!

 

Taygeta's carries that very distinctive patching, but on top of what, I don't klnow.

 

Laurence hasn't mentioned Tucana, so I'm guessing not very original?

 

Zodiac and Regulus I have no idea.

 

Note: Before I'm pulled up on it, I'm using the names the full length ones currently carry - I do understand that some ofthem may have possibly swapped identities!

 

Two sample back ends, (Photo Derek R)-

 

Edited June 21, 2015 by alan_fincher

[RogerM]

I have nothing particularly useful to add to this thread, but it is really good to know that THEOPHILUS has been bought by someone who appreciates her historic status.

[James Owen]

I'm pretty certain that Tycho has a rebuilt counter, but may be wrong. IIRC, it has rivets in the guards, which I don't think strictly it should have. Speedwheel or DerekR will know, of course.

EDIT: Can just about see ivets on guards here, I think.......

 

There is quite a bit of evidence that "Sickle" could be on her 4th counter, as there seem to be two intermediate incarnations, both of which had the guards reasonably roughly spaced, rather than the usual Northwich spacing. Probably her least original bit!

Taygeta's carries that very distinctive patching, but on top of what, I don't klnow.

 

Laurence hasn't mentioned Tucana, so I'm guessing not very original?

 

Zodiac and Regulus I have no idea.

 

Note: Before I'm pulled up on it, I'm using the names the full length ones currently carry - I do understand that some ofthem may have possibly swapped identities!

 

The guards definitely should be rivetted on.

 

Regulus is a butty.

 

Radiant is still full length but I'm not sure how complete her stern is.

[Derek R.]

TYCHO's counter was replaced at Stockton in 2002, and whilst the original guards were also riveted on (as are the new guards), Stockton used round headed rivets (Birmingham rivets?) instead of countersunk flat headed rivets, which make them stand a bit too proud. The top guard was staked into the oak cant. All other rivets as seen in Alan's second shot are rivets - not welded on washers. Notice there is a different line of rivets beneath the cants. This was to account for the thickness of the original wooden deck, the rivets set a little lower to take the angle upon which the deck would have sat. So, as near as possible TYCHO has what would have been seen as built in that area. The cabin and roof are also original 1936 (externally), though the roof was cut for the Petter to be fitted in '58. The exhaust outlet has been shuffled about a few times. I remember Graeme nearly falling off his perch when I gave the original counter round a few taps with a hammer whilst still in the water. It was a bit thin.

 

PS:

Well done for taking THEOPHILUS on (Thumbs up).

 

TYCHO's original counter:

 

 

This was taken in 1999 prior to a blacking all round.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Derek R.

[alan_fincher]

The guards definitely should be rivetted on.

 

Regulus is a butty.

 

Radiant is still full length but I'm not sure how complete her stern is.

 

Yes, I worded it very badly.

 

I meant, (as Derek hasnow explained), that Tycho has rivets of a type that seem far more prominent than any original.

 

However, how I got Regulus and Radiant the wrong way round, I have no idea!

[DHutch]

I have nothing particularly useful to add to this thread, but it is really good to know that THEOPHILUS has been bought by someone who appreciates her historic status.

Same here, don't know the boat itself, but quite like the middle Northwich.

 

 

Daniel

[Laurence Hogg]

"Tucana" at Norton Canes Boatbuilders.

Whilst working on the counter, although the wrap round had been replaced there was clear evidence of where the original guards had been and therefore the spacing was revealed. The counter has new guards now but welded exactly over where the old ones were. On all the pictures I have the spacing is not equidistant.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[James Owen]

TYCHO's counter was replaced at Stockton in 2002, and whilst the original guards were also riveted on (as are the new guards), Stockton used round headed rivets (Birmingham rivets?) instead of countersunk flat headed rivets, which make them stand a bit too proud. The top guard was staked into the oak cant. All other rivets as seen in Alan's second shot are rivets - not welded on washers. Notice there is a different line of rivets beneath the cants. This was to account for the thickness of the original wooden deck, the rivets set a little lower to take the angle upon which the deck would have sat. So, as near as possible TYCHO has what would have been seen as built in that area. The cabin and roof are also original 1936 (externally), though the roof was cut for the Petter to be fitted in '58. The exhaust outlet has been shuffled about a few times. I remember Graeme nearly falling off his perch when I gave the original counter round a few taps with a hammer whilst still in the water. It was a bit thin.

 

PS:

Well done for taking THEOPHILUS on (Thumbs up).

 

TYCHO's original counter:

 

 

This was taken in 1999 prior to a blacking all round.

From memory, the guard rivets on the counter round were originally fitted from the inside out so the design of head shouldn't have much influence on the external appearance if done as such.

[AMModels]

Laurence love the pics, looks like the usual top standard of work from the yard, where will Tucana be based when finished and what are the plans for her, if you can share of course.

[Laurence Hogg]

Laurence love the pics, looks like the usual top standard of work from the yard, where will Tucana be based when finished and what are the plans for her, if you can share of course.

 

She will be moored and operate from Millfields School at Brownhills on the Wryley. We installed pontoons on their wharfage some time back so she will be a camping boat and a floating classroom.

I hope they use her a lot as the work has seen a "basket case" wreck totally revived to a very good standard.

 

edited co I can't spel!

Edited June 23, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[fittie]

From memory, the guard rivets on the counter round were originally fitted from the inside out so the design of head shouldn't have much influence on the external appearance if done as such.

The rivets are fitted from the inside but we are seeing them after many years of wear - and the same goes for the front. The boats must have looked very different when new.

[Derek R.]

I suspect (because I don't know) that some may have been countersunk or semi-countersunk, or simply that the technique or tools used on the outside were such that rivets appeared flush with the hull sides. To have rivet heads proud on the outside of hulls intended to rub on masonry, would shorten their life and the integrity of the hull itself. Rivets can also suffer corrosion, and whilst looking sound, a good clout with a hammer or even a seven inch wire brush in an angle grinder will find the weak points. Took a few off YARMOUTH's hull with the latter technique. They seemed to be countersunk on the outside, but that may have been a hot tail hammered to fit into a countersunk hole. Most heads are proud on the inside, which is why TYCHO's counter guards don't look right.

 

http://www.clevedon-fasteners.co.uk/Info/solid-rivets-4.aspx