Self fit out whilst cruising??

[RLWP]

Always fancied building a house....

 

Always fancied building a boat....

 

Hey, it's an idea

 

So, you are motivate by creating something. A house is easier, there's a lot more space, lorries deliver directly to your site, no-one walks through your towpath workshop and you don't have to pack your building site up every couple of weeks and move it

 

Richard

[Paul C]

I think Richard's onto something. There's something to be said for renovating an old house, learning the skills, acquiring the tools, etc then selling it for a profit. Then putting that money (and the fact you've equipped yourself with some decent tools - which are expensive) towards doing similar on a boat.

 

BBC1 weekdays 10am-11am will give you lots of inspiration (Homes under the Hammer). There's also "Beat my Build" which was on Channel 4 which is similar (probably on Youtube somewhere). Very few on there make a loss.

[Chox]

OK, I admit I did ask was this a good or bad idea. The idea was to promote discussion. I have exposed myself to the chance of ridicule........

 

It would be nice to see a few more positive comments 'tho.......

 

Edit: if I want to build a house I would seek advice from a 'house building' forum, but I don't and that us why I have joined this forum. Perhaps I have misunderstood the ethos.......I thought new members were welcome....

Edited June 4, 2015 by Chox

[David Mack]

Edit: if I want to build a house I would seek advice from a 'house building' forum, but I don't and that us why I have joined this forum. Perhaps I have misunderstood the ethos.......I thought new members were welcome....

 

You are most welcome.

 

But the old hands on here (like me) are used to a string of newbies coming along and asking the same questions that have been asked many times before. Those with experience know what works and what doesn't, so sometimes the newbies get the answer they want to hear, and sometimes they don't...

 

Don't take it personally. Filter the advice you receive to decide what's right for you, Most of us here are well intentioned, even if we can't always express our intentions as well on a keyboard as we might do if we were discussing the matter over a couple of pints. And just ignore anyone who really gets your goat!

[spadefoot]

Yesterday, I did a bit of fitting-out. Today, I did some cruising & am moored in a lovely spot near Dundas. Tomorrow, I'll do whichever I choose. No, the boat isn't near finished. Yes, it's well comfortable. Yes, it is a pain moving stuff round all the time. No, I wouldn't do it different.

There's plenty moored nearby in finished boats. They're watching telly. You could do that in a house.

I get to live in my own floating, cruising, workshop; fettling, fiddling, designing, making and enjoying the waterway lifestyle.

[larkshall]

I'd like to add that it's also worthwhile fitting it out with movable stuff from IKEA....if you build stuff in, with expensive oak, from day 1, you'll never be able to move it around later....one of the successes that have allowed us to live on a boat with a few bodies on board, is that I can keep moving walls, nailing coat hooks in, etc etc etc....my boat is never "finished" because I have to keep changing it, as the needs of the family change. eg...kid had GCSEs to study for. I moved the sofa, screwed in a temporary desk...which will be removed again in a few weeks...and something put in it's place...so don't get to fussed with "the final design", until you've lived with it for a while...?

Bit like a house really. Kids on GCSEs then uni, then freedom. People come and they go. Hopefully a few won't like boats.

[Chox]

Thank you David for your kind words, I appreciate your comments. I do understand that it must be a little 'wearing' sometimes to see the same old questions asked again and again! I do indeed feel vulnerable at this stage because I know that in order to become experienced I probably have to make a few mistakes along the way!

 

I am trying to limit the risk. Over the years I have found myself in similar situations and now all these years later I too am one of 'the old hands' but in other spheres of life. However, we do all have to start somewhere and surely everyone on here was a 'newbie' once.

 

I am sure that much of the advice given is indeed meant well, and hopefully will help protect me from myself! So I shall keep coming back for more!

 

Thanks again and kind regards

 

Gtahame

[John V]

I suppose that is one thing about a self fit out, be it while living on board or nearby. That is,that it never quite gets finished......you are always tinkering with something or ripping out something that has been getting your goat and re-doing it. (And there are always a load of "I didn't do that quite right and someday I'll improve it" jobs)

[RLWP]

I am trying to limit the risk.

 

Buy a completed boat.

 

I'm not clear what your current canal boat experience is, maybe I have missed a thread somewhere

 

Richard

[Pykebird]

To be honest, it's up to you guys. I re did my whole boat and had to move in her in the early stages with 3 large hairy dogs. But I did sure my bed was one of the first things made as well as the fire.

So I could have something to eat and climb into bed without moving stuff. Although I had a mooring (no electric, just small genny and solar) I would take time out to just cruise but had to return for work.

It really depends on how disciplined you are with jobs, cruise for x hours, work for x hours, talk nicely to pub owners etc, most will allow deliveries to be made. and make delivering things easier by getting the boat as near as you can .

There are ways around most things, depends on how much you want something, I know this much ! Good luck.

[Chox]

Hi Richard,

 

A completed boat would be nice, but I think it will be difficult to buy what I want. My canal boat experience is limited to the 12 weeks or so that I have hired over the years

 

Perhaps it might help if I give a few more details....

 

My wife and I have rebuilt and lived on a 45ft sailing yacht for 3 years. We have built full size garages out of wood, renovated a few houses and fitted countless bathrooms, kitchens, central heating systems etc over the years. We have always had a boat of some kind in the household, from dinghy and canoe to cruiser and yacht.

 

Currently we are in the process of selling our house and moving South again but we are unsure of where exactly we wish to re-locate. We have always (always!) loved canals, canal boats and the life that goes with them. We do intend to buy/build a canalboat as soon as possible and the idea of living on one for a couple of years has great appeal whilst we continue looking for houses. The chances are that we will build our next house, it is just that we are yet to find a suitable place to build it!

 

I am fortunate that my wife is committed to this plan and very capable with DIY etc. We have taken early retirement so we have all the time needed to build/renovate a canal boat.

 

I have lost many friends and family over recent years, My wife and I are trying to make sure we have as many adventures as we can before we leave it too late.

 

So, to come back to the subject, we do not want to waste too much time making good other peoples mistakes or repairing, patching up old boats that are past their best. Our requirements and tastes are not for everyone and we are quite set in what we want......... ergo, we will probably have to build a boat to suit us.

 

I have found over the years that I can avoid (too many) mistakes by asking as many questions as possible, seeing as much as possible, doing as much as possible. But in the end there is no substitute for getting stuck in and doing it for myself.

 

Grahame

[Paul C]

Thank you David for your kind words, I appreciate your comments. I do understand that it must be a little 'wearing' sometimes to see the same old questions asked again and again! I do indeed feel vulnerable at this stage because I know that in order to become experienced I probably have to make a few mistakes along the way!

 

I am trying to limit the risk. Over the years I have found myself in similar situations and now all these years later I too am one of 'the old hands' but in other spheres of life. However, we do all have to start somewhere and surely everyone on here was a 'newbie' once.

 

I am sure that much of the advice given is indeed meant well, and hopefully will help protect me from myself! So I shall keep coming back for more!

 

Thanks again and kind regards

 

Gtahame

 

 

There's a lot of pro's in limiting the risk by doing a boat instead of a house, because the capital investment required is so much less. Another way to further limit the risk is to buy a secondhand boat which is reasonably close to your requirements and modify it. If its a reasonable boat to start with, then this can work out cost effective. If its a bit of a wreck and a "project" boat (there's loads around) then it typically ends up needing more work, and costing more, than ever planned. When it gets to this stage then the sailaway route (with new hull - a massive positive - and a new engine - the 2nd most expensive part of a boat) starts making sense.

 

I think if you're disciplined enough about doing the work in manageable stages, can live in effectively half the space a 45ft boat's cabin (which of course...is less than 45ft) and have a reasonable budget (and budget flexibility) then its certainly do-able. I think a lot of people advise against it because its difficult, not because its impossible. I got fed up of working on a 45ft boat doing minor jobs, because everything got in the way of everything else, and that was WITHOUT living on it at the same time! Also its worth saying, I've done DIY jobs on it and compared to a house, sometimes can be easier because everything is nearby rather than going back & forth looking for tools etc.

[RLWP]

Hi Richard,

 

A completed boat would be nice, but I think it will be difficult to buy what I want. My canal boat experience is limited to the 12 weeks or so that I have hired over the years

 

Perhaps it might help if I give a few more details....

 

My wife and I have rebuilt and lived on a 45ft sailing yacht for 3 years. We have built full size garages out of wood, renovated a few houses and fitted countless bathrooms, kitchens, central heating systems etc over the years. We have always had a boat of some kind in the household, from dinghy and canoe to cruiser and yacht.

 

Currently we are in the process of selling our house and moving South again but we are unsure of where exactly we wish to re-locate. We have always (always!) loved canals, canal boats and the life that goes with them. We do intend to buy/build a canalboat as soon as possible and the idea of living on one for a couple of years has great appeal whilst we continue looking for houses. The chances are that we will build our next house, it is just that we are yet to find a suitable place to build it!

 

I am fortunate that my wife is committed to this plan and very capable with DIY etc. We have taken early retirement so we have all the time needed to build/renovate a canal boat.

 

I have lost many friends and family over recent years, My wife and I are trying to make sure we have as many adventures as we can before we leave it too late.

 

So, to come back to the subject, we do not want to waste too much time making good other peoples mistakes or repairing, patching up old boats that are past their best. Our requirements and tastes are not for everyone and we are quite set in what we want......... ergo, we will probably have to build a boat to suit us.

 

I have found over the years that I can avoid (too many) mistakes by asking as many questions as possible, seeing as much as possible, doing as much as possible. But in the end there is no substitute for getting stuck in and doing it for myself.

 

Grahame

 

Ok, that sounds like you are either: Well equipped to realise your dream or; on the brink of a disaster, which you are well equipped to deal with

 

Grahame, I wouldn't do it. I think sailaways are intended to suck some poor mug into buying a boat that they can't afford by offering the illusion of a cheap and simple job. Many attempt this and fail when faced with the reality of cold, messy, unfinished homes where you can't get to bed because of sawdust and tools and can't afford the next bit of equipment.

 

And people do do it, some of them very successfully.

 

You are going to have to realise your own dream here. I would suggest you have a look at owner fit-outs at brokers. You could scrap the interiors and retain essential equipment for less than the price of a sailaway and the parts new

 

It might open your eyes to what can happen too

 

Best of luck with this, from what I have read, you both seem to have the right skills and attitudes to make this work

 

Richard

[Chox]

Thanks chaps!

 

My wife gave me a bol@@@king for not giving you enough detail earlier (hence my last posting)! This is the kind of stuff I was hoping for If we can find one that is close to our requirement then a boat that we could 'modify' would be an attractive plan.

 

Now then, any advice on what to look for (haha)?

 

Still fancy 45ft max, portholes only (not much chance there then) and trad or semi trad stern. As for the engine, this is where I do seek your advice. I have no experience of 'vintage' engines, but they look and sound sooooo lovely!

 

Also, what about replating older hull? Do hulls really wear out after 20 - 25 years?

 

Cheers

 

Grahame

[Neil2]

 

Ok, that sounds like you are either: Well equipped to realise your dream or; on the brink of a disaster, which you are well equipped to deal with

 

Grahame, I wouldn't do it. I think sailaways are intended to suck some poor mug into buying a boat that they can't afford by offering the illusion of a cheap and simple job. Many attempt this and fail when faced with the reality of cold, messy, unfinished homes where you can't get to bed because of sawdust and tools and can't afford the next bit of equipment.

 

And people do do it, some of them very successfully.

 

You are going to have to realise your own dream here. I would suggest you have a look at owner fit-outs at brokers. You could scrap the interiors and retain essential equipment for less than the price of a sailaway and the parts new

 

It might open your eyes to what can happen too

 

Best of luck with this, from what I have read, you both seem to have the right skills and attitudes to make this work

 

Richard

 

There's another consideration - if you buy a sailaway you are committed to the long haul of getting it finished to a standard that someone else will accept, because you will have to sell it, at some point. Buy a complete secondhand boat and if you think you've made a terrible mistake after the first winter you can always sell up with little or no financial penalty.

[RLWP]

Thanks chaps!

 

My wife gave me a bol@@@king for not giving you enough detail earlier (hence my last posting)! This is the kind of stuff I was hoping for If we can find one that is close to our requirement then a boat that we could 'modify' would be an attractive plan.

 

Now then, any advice on what to look for (haha)?

 

Still fancy 45ft max, portholes only (not much chance there then) and trad or semi trad stern. As for the engine, this is where I do seek your advice. I have no experience of 'vintage' engines, but they look and sound sooooo lovely!

 

Also, what about replating older hull? Do hulls really wear out after 20 - 25 years?

 

Cheers

 

Grahame

 

Don't put a vintage engine in a 40' liveaboard. It's for you to live in, not some pampered engine

 

Richard

[Chox]

I feared that! No vintage engine for me then

[RLWP]

I feared that! No vintage engine for me then

 

An engine room is going to be several feet of living space out of your hull. OK it can be used for casual storage, drying and other stuff but it does get very messy and hard to maintain the engine. After all, some bloke went and plonked an engine right in the middle of the floor.

 

And you need that space for living in, you are already going to have to plan carefully to fit in the areas you need

 

Richard

[Paul C]

Yeah vintage engine in a small boat would take up a lot of space, have a look at some of the boats with them in, always a trad stern with back cabin, so that's 6-8' + 8' of the cabin gone. Nice to have....but....space inefficient.

[Chox]

So, we have what 'not to buy' .... any thoughts on what to be looking at? (would another forum be more appropriate as this is the self build forum?)

 

[RLWP]

So, we have what 'not to buy' .... any thoughts on what to be looking at? (would another forum be more appropriate as this is the self build forum?)

 

 

Hah!

 

So, would you like the full psychoanalysis to determine what it is that you like?

 

Please bear in mind, no-one needs a boat. Faced with that, buying one is an irrational thing to do. This is why buying a boat is an entirely personal thing. Many folk (including us) end up with a completely different boat to the one they went to buy because somehow the right boat found them.

 

Go look at lots and lots of boats both in and out of your price range. If you try to do this by forum, you are going to end up with an impossible shopping list. You've already started (40-45 foot, portholes, vintage engine, sailaway...), asking people to add to it - well good luck. Do some searches, there are loads of similar threads on here

 

Richard

[Alan Saunders]

I find the idea of changing the layout as you progress the fit-out unlikely to be successful. Minor changes such as the 'study area' that Dean incorporated may be possible but, generally, the layout is limited by the position of windows/portholes and roof vents. You need to have a dimensioned design before you commence fitout.

 

45' is probably a little short to provide separate living and a working spaces. I have not fitted out a 'sailaway' but, after 'fixing-up' a neglected boat I wish I had paid for a few months with shore power and easy material deliveries rather than lugging a generator onto the towpath and trundling supplies along the towpath.

 

Good luck, Alan

[Chox]

Thanks chaps

 

No more questions for a while, I have a truck load more research to do.......

[Neil2]

45' gets you the luxury of a permanent bed. Any shorter and you will have to have a bed you make up every night unless you have a tiny lounge.

 

By the way a decent sized kitchen/galley is not a luxury on a boat - but you already know that don't you?

 

There's certainly a place for vintage engines - in someone else's boat.

 

Regarding hulls, steel can last indefinitely, properly maintained, unfortunately there is a myth pervading the narrowboat world that baseplates don't rust so most of them don't get blacked/painted and the fact is they do rust. But don't necessarily dismiss a boat just because it has a dodgy bottom. if the rest of the hull is sound it could be a good deal even with the price of overplating added on.

 

 

 

[DeanS]

Chox...I have the solution.

 

Buy a sailaway, already spray foamed like I did.

Put it in a marina for 1 month only.

During this month, live in your camper, and work on the boat 18hrs a day, fitting the shower, toilet, beds etc.

Then move on board and go cruising, and you can do the rest (curtains, kitchen cupboard doors etc) while cruising.

 

I think this would be better than cruising from day 1, and 1 month will fly by without killing your cruising dream.