Live aboard a GPR boat - se up costs and sanity measures!

[RovingWriter]

Hello,

 

I'm a 35 year old woman based in London. Having spent this weekend reading the whole of the internet (including some really helpful posts on here) I am seriously considering buying a GPR boat for a continuous cruising to live aboard.

 

A little background...I'm a writer so don't need to look smart (in fact looking scruffy is almost a requirement!) and don't need to be anywhere on a regular basis. I've done a lot of travelling in the last few years and so am used to very basic conditions (Northern Vietnam in winter with a hole in the roof and a cold shower, a wooden shack in Paraguay). Also, I have lived on a small static houseboat which I rented for the 2007/08 winter so am used to - and like - wee cosy spaces and aclimatised to it being f***ing freezing since it was uninsulated and only had one electric radiator (I still loved it though ). Basically, I'm prepared for it to be hard graft and not very comfortable until I learn to make it more so but hopefully possible...I have always loved the canals (hence my rental which I only gave up because I moved in with a partner who would not live off land!) and this is the first time I've ever had a bit of money to think about getting one for myself - albiet a cheapy...

 

My budget is £7000 for which I'd hope to buy:

 

A GPR boat that doesn't need to much fixing up (bar cosmetic stuff) - it seems diesel is best in terms of price and availablity of fuel - though these boats are harder to find? I think I've also read that a Nauticus, Freeman or Dawncraft would be solidly built? My only real non-standard requirement is a shower - even just one of those that goes on taps for a quick rinse down...and for that reason water heating.

 

Some solar panels

 

Some form of heat for the winter (multi fuel stove properly installed? Or perhaps with solar panel I can power an oil radiator?)

 

Transfer of the boat from wherever it is to London - or a cruisable distance

 

Licence and insurance

 

...This looks like an unfeasably long list for my £7000 but that's what I have (plus some aside for unexpected maintenence and kit) and I'd be overjoyed if that was possible....worth mentioning I've no DIY skills but I do learn quick and am time rich if nothing else

 

Would love to hear what experienced boaters think...please feel free to throw spanners in the works and I can try to dodge them or use them far better to think about these things now than when I'm freezing, over budget and living on the boat!

 

Thanks so much in advance for reading and for any help you can offer!

 

Kerry x

[John V]

getting in before you hit the "grouch wall"........most of the things you want to know can be found via the "search facility" (top right hand corner)....select "this topic" and alter to forums and enter your question...try a few different options....try" questions about a fibreglass boat " as a starter, after going through some of those threads come back for the bits you can't find.

 

Welcome to the forum by the way and please check back frequently, the answers usually come back very quickly.

[RovingWriter]

Hi John,

 

Many thanks - will use the search function now and come back and update my original post for anything I haven't been able to find...apologies to potential grouches (I would also be grouchy if I had novices asking the same question x 2000 ...perhaps one day I will knowledgable enough) ...this is a brilliant forum and very helpful so would like to use it well

 

Kerry x

[Dave Clinton]

Hello,

 

I'm a 35 year old woman based in London. Having spent this weekend reading the whole of the internet (including some really helpful posts on here) I am seriously considering buying a GPR boat for a continuous cruising to live aboard.

 

A little background...I'm a writer so don't need to look smart (in fact looking scruffy is almost a requirement!) and don't need to be anywhere on a regular basis. I've done a lot of travelling in the last few years and so am used to very basic conditions (Northern Vietnam in winter with a hole in the roof and a cold shower, a wooden shack in Paraguay). Also, I have lived on a small static houseboat which I rented for the 2007/08 winter so am used to - and like - wee cosy spaces and aclimatised to it being f***ing freezing since it was uninsulated and only had one electric radiator (I still loved it though ). Basically, I'm prepared for it to be hard graft and not very comfortable until I learn to make it more so but hopefully possible...I have always loved the canals (hence my rental which I only gave up because I moved in with a partner who would not live off land!) and this is the first time I've ever had a bit of money to think about getting one for myself - albiet a cheapy...

 

My budget is £7000 for which I'd hope to buy:

 

A GPR boat that doesn't need to much fixing up (bar cosmetic stuff) - it seems diesel is best in terms of price and availablity of fuel - though these boats are harder to find? I think I've also read that a Nauticus, Freeman or Dawncraft would be solidly built? My only real non-standard requirement is a shower - even just one of those that goes on taps for a quick rinse down...and for that reason water heating.

 

Some solar panels

 

Some form of heat for the winter (multi fuel stove properly installed? Or perhaps with solar panel I can power an oil radiator?)

 

Transfer of the boat from wherever it is to London - or a cruisable distance

 

Licence and insurance

 

...This looks like an unfeasably long list for my £7000 but that's what I have (plus some aside for unexpected maintenence and kit) and I'd be overjoyed if that was possible....worth mentioning I've no DIY skills but I do learn quick and am time rich if nothing else

 

Would love to hear what experienced boaters think...please feel free to throw spanners in the works and I can try to dodge them or use them far better to think about these things now than when I'm freezing, over budget and living on the boat!

 

Thanks so much in advance for reading and for any help you can offer!

 

Kerry x

 

Your budget is £6,000 because you'll need license and insurance (Basic Boat)

 

Solar panel won't keep a mouse warn in winter. So a wood (multi-fuel) burner. In a GRP boat you'll need to be pretty careful about the installation, there's a lot of not much space for things to go wrong in.

 

All doable. Buy the boat a long way from London and take it there, a decent Dawncraft (the ones that look more like narrow boats than cruisers) can be had for £5,000

 

Shower you may have to put in yourself but playing with GRP is fairly easy if itchy and stressful. You could look at one of the ones that are like garden sprayers if you don't want to do a load of plumbing. Also in London you're never far from a swimming pool.

[bottle]

Sometimes it is better to search google as topics on this forum are usually near the top and google searches better than the forums.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Sorry I can't help with most of this, but you say you 'don't have to be anywhere on a regular basis', but you want to take the boat to London?

 

A quick search on here (or almost anywhere) will reveal that London is probably the very worst place to continuously cruise, but what do I know - I wouldn't live in London even if the waterways there were a haven of peace.

 

Welcome to the forums!

[RovingWriter]

Your budget is £6,000 because you'll need license and insurance (Basic Boat)

 

Solar panel won't keep a mouse warn in winter. So a wood (multi-fuel) burner. In a GRP boat you'll need to be pretty careful about the installation, there's a lot of not much space for things to go wrong in.

 

All doable. Buy the boat a long way from London and take it there, a decent Dawncraft (the ones that look more like narrow boats than cruisers) can be had for £5,000

Is that a Dawncraft Rover? Or just any Dawncraft over 27 ft or so? Also, thanks very much for shower and other tips - all gratefully recieved!

@Bottle - thank you...have Google the feck out of every variation of everything...but will keep going and dig up the answers

 

@Mac - Aye, I can roam far and wide but my pals are all in London and I'd like to try and stay nearby when I can and I do love London - I have joined London Boaters FB and read through posts and seen it is less than rosy being a CC (or indeed a boater) in London so that plan might change though!

[Dave Clinton]

Is that a Dawncraft Rover? Or just any Dawncraft over 27 ft or so? Also, thanks very much for shower and other tips - all gratefully recieved!

 

Don't know ;-) it's the long squarish one.

 

Seems it is;

 

http://www.canalscape.net/Dont%20Call%20it%20a%20Barge/Dont%20Call%20it%20a%20Barge.htm

 

 

though the one I had in mind wasn't even a Dawncraft

 

 

Bear in mind though if you are in the south east and have no desire to visit the grim and rather twee midlands you can have a wider boat and spread out a bit. A 9' wide boat is quite a difference inside.

[RovingWriter]

Ach these are both lovely wee boats. Surprised that second one is a cruiser...thank you! And will bear in mind a wider beam (if that's the right usage!) but I quite like the idea of having a boat that is as 'roamable' as me - thank you again!

[Texasboater]

You might want to google charcoal boat heaters. Small and efficient.

[ditchcrawler]

Stay away from petrol, its not easy getting supplies on the canal and leads to more problems, if you have a boat with an inboard engine you get better battery charging and probably hot water as well.

[Arthur Brown]

Pick a place to live possibly outside London, certainly out of the central area. Live there get a mooring with electricity and commute in by train occasionally or bring the boat in to a 24 or 48 hour mooring sometimes.

 

You will need kerosene for heat, diesel for movement and likely gas for cooking. You will use electricity which has to be found somewhere and a shoreline socket is by far the cheapest and easiest. As you licence the boat you will come on to CaRT's enforcement radar as a potential continuous moorer, they will make life hard for you unless you really do some sensible cruising.

 

Learn where the rail stations are that are close to the cut, then you can move about a lot (which CaRT like) but still be loosely in London, or can commute to London easily

[Charles]

Is that a Dawncraft Rover? Or just any Dawncraft over 27 ft or so? Also, thanks very much for shower and other tips - all gratefully recieved!

 

If you're a writer, I suggest you learn how to spell received.

[Phil Ambrose]

Is that a Dawncraft Rover? Or just any Dawncraft over 27 ft or so? Also, thanks very much for shower and other tips - all gratefully recieved!

 

If you're a writer, I suggest you learn how to spell received.

One could suggest that YOU learn how to quote.

Phil

[sal garfi]

One other thing to consider, and perhaps there's info about this already on the forum. Is a full boat survey as necessary for a GRP boat as it is for a steel one? I know that osmosis can be a problem, but I gather that many GRPs have it and last for many decades with no problems.

 

Sal

[RovingWriter]

Thank you so much for your help guys I really appreciate it...particularly as I'm starting to see this isn't a crazy idea but that I could actually do it if I research, am careful about what decisions I make - which is a bloody exciting thought! I can't buy or move until September but feel that gives me at least a month (maybe six weeks) to get everything installed before it starts getting perishing...!

 

Making notes as I go...

 

- London need not be so centric to plans (also think having a Marina in mind in case it's impossible to CC is an excellent idea...

 

- Inboard diesel is best (and hopefully possible...read a 'yoghurt pot fireball' post on here that scared the sh** out of me!)

 

- Charcoal heater (which does look like a very good solution for a wee boat...)

 

- Check whether I need a full survey - because I also read osmosis mostly just devalues but dosn't sink!

 

- Learn 2 spell if I wont to b gude riter - haha

 

Genuinely, can't thank you all enough for your time and knowledge (not so much you Charles...) I feel like a really helpful thing next would be to speak with someone currenty living in a GPR who might be willing to answer my questions, tell me what's unexpectedly challenging etc...if anyone knows anyone please do put me in touch if they might be willing.

 

Ta and have a good evening,

Kerry x

[Arthur Brown]

Start NOW! Look at ads for 100 boats online. Apollo Duck is one site. Look to get a feel for what you like and dislike about boats. cabin layout is important as are engine, cabin heat etc. Towards the end of your first hundred you should have a good idea what you like/tolerate/really HATE, and then you can move on to looking for your dream boat within you likes and budget.

 

In London expect to move from Bishops Stortford to Oxford as part of a continuous cruising regime, you will have to learn where the rail stations are.

 

Electricity could be an issue if you write into a computer, -watch the electricity use especially in winter, but I can't see you wanting to use a typewriter!

 

Remember work done on a boat costs new price but is only old second hand in value so buy as close as you can to what you want.

[RovingWriter]

Start NOW! Look at ads for 100 boats online. Apollo Duck is one site. Look to get a feel for what you like and dislike about boats. cabin layout is important as are engine, cabin heat etc. Towards the end of your first hundred you should have a good idea what you like/tolerate/really HATE, and then you can move on to looking for your dream boat within you likes and budget.

 

In London expect to move from Bishops Stortford to Oxford as part of a continuous cruising regime, you will have to learn where the rail stations are.

 

Electricity could be an issue if you write into a computer, -watch the electricity use especially in winter, but I can't see you wanting to use a typewriter!

 

Remember work done on a boat costs new price but is only old second hand in value so buy as close as you can to what you want.

I've been looking daily on AD and also on Preloved which has lots (but not sure how good the site is)...in France at the moment so spending a lot of my train travelling time looking at boats, kit etc. Hello, new obsession!

 

Today I worked out where to buy a shower (camping one until I can get one fitted if it doesn't have one), how to insulate (foil bubble wrap cut to fit, covered with self-adhesive fabric) and that I'd quite like a gas blown heater as well as a charcoal heater...and most importantly, that I can afford all that.

 

For electric, aye, that is a bit of a worry but I actually use a tablet with a keyboard and usually write in cafes anyhow...so if I can charge while out then I can use for 8 hours before next cafe visit...hopefully inboard might help with electricity?

 

Ta again for your advice and help...seems much less daunting when you know there's good knowledge out there and folks are willing to share

 

Kerry x

P.s. Leaning towards a Dawncraft or a Nauticus 27 at the moment - both of which seem popular and well-regarded boats...if I could find one for 5k(ish) that'd be ideal! Do let me know if anyone knows one up for sale...

[Phil Ambrose]

Hi Kerry. Blown hot air gas heaters are very good, fitted one on my previous boat as back up. Check out Propex, also they do not use a lot of leccy. Down side is you will only get about 90 hours from a bottle of gas but if using in conjunction with a solid fuel fire it will go a long way to making life comfortable.

Phil

[Alan de Enfield]

Hi Kerry. Blown hot air gas heaters are very good, fitted one on my previous boat as back up. Check out Propex, also they do not use a lot of leccy. Down side is you will only get about 90 hours from a bottle of gas but if using in conjunction with a solid fuel fire it will go a long way to making life comfortable.

Phil

 

It is an option but as you point out, heavy on gas.

I know a couple of people who have taken them out and replaced them with diesel powered (Eberspacher) blown air heaters. (All the trunking is already in place so its a fairly easy 'swap'.)

 

During the Winter they were using about £8 per day of gas (but it was their sole method of cabin heating)

[John V]

 

It is an option but as you point out, heavy on gas.

I know a couple of people who have taken them out and replaced them with diesel powered (Eberspacher) blown air heaters. (All the trunking is already in place so its a fairly easy 'swap'.)

 

 

Oddly I have just done the same thing but in reverse !!! on my cruiser (25'6" narrowbeam GRP) I found the Ebersplutter smelly and very noisy and also a rather hefty consumer of electrickery. After some research and a long chat with Phil I installed a Propex. It is not being used for a liveaboard, and it has yet to be used in earnest in really cold weather but I have been very pleased with the results so far

[Meraki]

Hi Kerry,

 

Living aboard a cruiser is absolutely possible and enjoyable.

 

I'm not a c'cer, but read that you may consider a marina (probably in winter? Cruising GPRs in icy conditions is not recommended / unsafe). This still allows you the freedom of summer cruising and comfort of a winter mooring. Most of what I write will relate mostly to mooring with access to electricity / water etc.

 

I alternate between a halogen and oil filled heaters which heats the boat well and doesn't have the drying effect that blow heaters have on my skin & eyes. This is just personal preference learned through trial and error. Both of these heating options can be regulated and have their own benefits. Halogen also provides a light source and oil heaters can be safely left on during the night to avoid frosty mornings. I have found both options to be very cost effective. I have a gas heater installed on my cruiser but found it more difficult to regulate the temperature when using this and not at all cost effective.

 

I've also found that thermal lined curtains, a cosy blanket / throw and a couple of well placed cats go a long way towards keeping you toasty warm and cosy throughout winter

 

I'm pretty new to this boating lark myself, but you learn a lot through trial and error. The learning is all part of the process and adds to the adventure.

 

I can wholeheartedly recommend Nauticus 27 for being a well built, solid boat, with a great layout and lots of well appointed storage space. I've been aboard a Dawncraft and looked at a few other makes, but the layout of Nauticus was much more to my liking and has a sense of much more space than other makes of the same size.

 

I don't have a shower on board and I don't think that I would sacrifice the space to install one, again, this is just personal preference. You become increasingly resourceful as a boater and can always find a way to access wash facilities via marina's or local gym's / leisure centres.

 

I use an electric steamer to cook most of my food, which is both cost effective and quick (and much tastier!) I have found that internet access can be hit and miss occasionally, but is mostly reliable should you need it for your work. I don't bother with a TV (but didn't for several years in a house). Netflix and catch up TV can be viewed on a laptop or similar portable device which also saves space.There is often a local cafe close to many mooring locations, with access to WiFi, which you can also make use of.

 

Research your area well prior to getting a mooring considering things like public transport links (should you need them), accessibility to GP / health services, leisure facilities and local shops (home delivery is available to marinas). Local resources will be of more importance during winter months when weather is bad or you'd like to access some social activities closer to home.

 

Most marinas have a mail box service, but you could consider post restante (where available) or having your mail forwarded to a friend, relative or home address.

 

I bought my boat on ebay. I also looked on Preloved, Friday Ads and Gumtree. I would recommend a private sale for a GRP boat as it cuts out the brokerage fees which are factored into the sale price.

 

Keep a little money aside for essential boat maintenance and those things that can and will pop up and require fixing out of the blue (e.g. engine problems).

 

I haven't seen many Nauticus 27 boats for sale for under £7,000 of late, most seem to be around the £8,500 - 9,000 mark that I've seen recently, but there will be some that come up. It is just a case of keeping on top of what is coming up for sale and good timing.

 

Do plenty of research, know what you are looking for and when you see it, go for it!

 

I love living aboard and wouldn't change it for anything!

 

Happy hunting! I wish you all the best in your new adventure!

[Alan Saunders]

Maybe "Star" will reply, she had a similar budget and career as you, and has made a great success of her life on the canal. Has installed a shower and writes articles for waterway publications. Pink hair and motorbikes may not be essential!

 

As for the spelling, it is not important if you don't get the "I after 'E' except after 'C' rule" but Glass Reinforced Plastic is GRP - if you search for 'GPR' you will miss most 'hits' - OTOH, common misspellings like 'GPR' may find several boats that have little interest and may be bought for a lower price. My favourite is ect. (short for ectoplasm?) when the writer meant etc. - Latin 'et cetera'.

 

Google search may suggest alternatives and the Google Chrome browser has a spell and grammar checker (set it to UK-en).

 

Good luck, Alan

[RovingWriter]

Oddly I have just done the same thing but in reverse !!! on my cruiser (25'6" narrowbeam GRP) I found the Ebersplutter smelly and very noisy and also a rather hefty consumer of electrickery. After some research and a long chat with Phil I installed a Propex. It is not being used for a liveaboard, and it has yet to be used in earnest in really cold weather but I have been very pleased with the results so far

Hi Kerry. Blown hot air gas heaters are very good, fitted one on my previous boat as back up. Check out Propex, also they do not use a lot of leccy. Down side is you will only get about 90 hours from a bottle of gas but if using in conjunction with a solid fuel fire it will go a long way to making life comfortable.

Phil

It is an option but as you point out, heavy on gas.

I know a couple of people who have taken them out and replaced them with diesel powered (Eberspacher) blown air heaters. (All the trunking is already in place so its a fairly easy 'swap'.)

 

During the Winter they were using about £8 per day of gas (but it was their sole method of cabin heating)

This is all really interesting...what I'm thinking is I can use a solid fuel stove for all-day, decent quality heat but use the gas/diesel blown for when I need a quick blast to warm the area up...yesterday I read a post by a woman who said she got pneumonia over winter on her live aboard and spent 5 months as an in-patient...which is pretty extreme! I don't mind not having the warm cosy certainty of a flat but I do want to be only cold and not make myself sick...so heat feels like the most important thing - I figure with insulation, really high-tog bedding and two heating sources I might be ok...

 

Happy to spend a decent amount (£200+) monthly on keeping the boat warmish over winter because I 'get' that that's my trade of with getting a cheaper GRP...!

[Arthur Brown]

My experience with locations providing internet was variable and sometimes expensive. Few provide electricity (very few) so recharging a box of batteries doesn't happen. While the WiFi may be free it's usually rate and data capped and can get slow if several people switch on. While the WiFi may be free the beer (Weatherspoons have free wifi) Burger (Macd and BK offer free wifi but no power) Coffee (several Costas do wifi) all seem to cost over the odds

 

However "Harry Potter" the first book was reputedly written in a Costa coffee shop.

 

Your main need will be to sort out a reliable means of heating in winter and providing a non seasonal electricity supply. In winter a means of heating is essential, some of those use electricity. BUT you do have the option of a hand fed solid fuel stove, which as you could be in all day will be easy to fuel all day.

 

As you want a shower installed then you will need to source the water reasonably frequently, which may mean moving a few miles.