Anouncement made on canal and river trust fb page by Damian Kemp

[Alan de Enfield]

 

My apologies. I was making the connection between marina boaters who leave a marina for most of the year, having to cruise the same as CC-ers according to the new T&Cs....so didn't mean to take it off topic...if I did

 

It was in answer to Matchpoints question about whether the 66% was all boaters or just CCers - so - to be clear - it is 66%of Boaters without a home mooring who are (according to C&RTs questionable monitoring system) moving / travelling / range of less than 12 miles per annum

[Paul C]

 

What style of cruising...being a marina boater who leaves their marina for 8mths (because the marina is at the top of a difficult flight of locks), but doesn't travel far, because of local job etc?

 

Have a look at this thread:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73548&hl=%2Bterms+%2Band+%2Bconditions

 

If not the whole thread, then look at the link on the original post. YES, they have updated the T&Cs to now require boaters who have a home mooring, to "cruise" whilst away from that mooring. Since nobody has yet defined "cruising", its not possible to say if your description "doesn't travel far" will be interpreted as cruising or not, to CRT - hence best asking them!

[kris88]

Dean I think you've kinda hit on an important point, we won't really know until CRT bring out the places map and start enforcing all the changes they are trying to implement. But if they do start trying to enforce against boats from marinas cruising locally, there's going to be a lot of annoyed people and some of them might even be IWA members.

Regards kris

Edited March 8, 2015 by kris88

[costalot]

Yes, but if you have a marina mooring...surely you're allowed to cruise near home...which is why you have a marina mooring in the first place, because of work, school etc.

Dean you have a home mooring so any movement away from your mooring would be bona fide for navigation. Why else would you leave your home mooring. All you have to do is move at least once every 14 days.

[DeanS]

 

its not possible to say if your description "doesn't travel far" will be interpreted as cruising or not, to CRT - hence best asking them!

 

Hello CRT. I have a question.

"Yes".

"I have a marina mooring"

"Yes".

I want to leave the marina for a bit.

"Yes".

Immediately outside my marina is 100m of canal...and then...the Rochdale 9 locks.

"Yes".

Can I leave my marina, moor up in that 100m space, for 14days, then go back to my marina for 2 days, and then go back to that 100m for another 14days.

"No".

"Why not"

"If you leave your marina, you must cruise."

"I must go down the Rochdale 9?"

"Yes".

"Do you know what's at the end of the Rochdale 9?"

"No"

"Non CRT waters".

"You can cruise there for 7 days".

"ok. Great." Must I then travel back up the Rochdale 9?"

"Yes".

"ok and can I stay at the top of the Rochdale 9 for 14days...?"

"Yes".

"and then what must I do?"

"You must go back to your mooring"

"for how long....?"

"erm.....1 week".

"is that in law or are you making that up?"

"I'm making that up..ok,....lets make it....4days"

"are you sure?"

"not really."

"ok then...I'll go back for 4 days....Can I then moor above the Rochdale 9 for 14days?"

"this is getting silly"

 

 

This is why I am not going to phone CRT.

[MtB]

But you knew this when you took the marina mooring....

[cotswoldsman]

But you knew this when you took the marina mooring....

Maybe he did not know crt were going to move the goal posts

[jenlyn]

But you knew this when you took the marina mooring....

Dean does mind reading???

[GoodGurl]

But you knew this when you took the marina mooring....

he did?

[DeanS]

But you knew this when you took the marina mooring....

 

actually I was a CCer when I took the marina mooring, intending to stay from Oct till March only, but got a local job, and kid went to College in Manchester. I have a dream to become a CCer again as soon as possible...but will probably always keep my marina mooring "in case". The marina becomes un-liveable in summer...local kids etc cause hassles..(marinawatch.orguk.net) so I'm forced to leave the marina every year..for peace of mind....

[MtB]

Maybe he did not know crt were going to move the goal posts

 

Forgive me I must have missed the bit where CRT had the law changed.

[Paul C]

 

Hello CRT. I have a question.

"Yes".

"I have a marina mooring"

"Yes".

I want to leave the marina for a bit.

"Yes".

Immediately outside my marina is 100m of canal...and then...the Rochdale 9 locks.

"Yes".

Can I leave my marina, moor up in that 100m space, for 14days, then go back to my marina for 2 days, and then go back to that 100m for another 14days.

"No".

"Why not"

"If you leave your marina, you must cruise."

"I must go down the Rochdale 9?"

"Yes".

"Do you know what's at the end of the Rochdale 9?"

"No"

"Non CRT waters".

"You can cruise there for 7 days".

"ok. Great." Must I then travel back up the Rochdale 9?"

"Yes".

"ok and can I stay at the top of the Rochdale 9 for 14days...?"

"Yes".

"and then what must I do?"

"You must go back to your mooring"

"for how long....?"

"erm.....1 week".

"is that in law or are you making that up?"

"I'm making that up..ok,....lets make it....4days"

"are you sure?"

"not really."

"ok then...I'll go back for 4 days....Can I then moor above the Rochdale 9 for 14days?"

"this is getting silly"

 

 

This is why I am not going to phone CRT.

 

Highlight in red.

 

I think you're being a little harsh on yourself. There's nothing to stop you leaving the marina, mooring in that 100yds gap for 2 weeks then going back to the marina, ie there is no requirement to traverse the Rochdale 9 every time you leave the marina. As has been said, best to ask CRT for proper confirmation though - possibly via email, so you have a record of it.

[cotswoldsman]

 

Forgive me I must have missed the bit where CRT had the law changed.

Ok if you want to go down the road of the law what part of the law should Dean have read before he took his mooring that stops him doing what he proposes? I think Dean is concerned about the new T&C

[DeanS]

 

Forgive me I must have missed the bit where CRT had the law changed.

 

The T&Cs have changed. The bit that says home moorers must act like CC-ers when not in their marina. That's the bit I'm trying to get my head around, because...when I go down the Rochdale 9 I'm off CRT waters...till I get to Leigh....but I dont wan't to travel much further than Leigh, because I have to keep going to work, so I need to moor near Leigh on CRT waters for 14days, and then move..."just enough" so I can maybe moor another 14days....but I don't know what that distance is....in the past someone with a home mooring didn't need to worry, but apparently now I do?

[cotswoldsman]

 

The T&Cs have changed. The bit that says home moorers must act like CC-ers when not in their marina. That's the bit I'm trying to get my head around, because...when I go down the Rochdale 9 I'm off CRT waters...till I get to Leigh....but I dont wan't to travel much further than Leigh, because I have to keep going to work, so I need to moor near Leigh on CRT waters for 14days, and then move..."just enough" so I can maybe moor another 14days....but I don't know what that distance is....in the past someone with a home mooring didn't need to worry, but apparently now I do?

MtP does not understand that Dean

[DeanS]

Ok if you want to go down the road of the law what part of the law should Dean have read before he took his mooring that stops him doing what he proposes? I think Dean is concerned about the new T&C

 

I'm concerned some data logger starts logging me ......now I want to AVOID problems...not wait for a letter from CRT and THEN react to that....so I'm trying to understand how the new T&Cs, together with the new CC rules....apply to me....which is becoming more and more tricky, and definately not going to phone CRT to explain, because I suspect I'll get different answers depending on who picks up the phone.

I'll just wing it, and report back at the end of 2015.

[kris88]

Also they will say something on the phone and then do something different. I've had this happen to me.( get any communication in writing)

Regards kris

[jenlyn]

I'm concerned some data logger starts logging me ......now I want to AVOID problems...not wait for a letter from CRT and THEN react to that....so I'm trying to understand how the new T&Cs, together with the new CC rules....apply to me....which is becoming more and more tricky, and definately not going to phone CRT to explain, because I suspect I'll get different answers depending on who picks up the phone.I'll just wing it, and report back at the end of 2015.

The only person you can talk to is your local EO. It's his patch, so his rules.

Just make sure you make a note of what's said with date and time stamped.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

The T&Cs have changed. The bit that says home moorers must act like CC-ers when not in their marina. That's the bit I'm trying to get my head around, because...when I go down the Rochdale 9 I'm off CRT waters...till I get to Leigh....but I dont wan't to travel much further than Leigh, because I have to keep going to work, so I need to moor near Leigh on CRT waters for 14days, and then move..."just enough" so I can maybe moor another 14days....but I don't know what that distance is....in the past someone with a home mooring didn't need to worry, but apparently now I do?

 

Don't try to 'get your head around it' then, just ignore it and use your boat as you wish to. You've complied with the requirements and conditions for a Licence and paid for it, so if C&RT attempt to impose additional and unlawful conditions there is no obligation for you to comply with them. Tell them to get lost.

[SamKingfisher]

As far as I'm aware, Dunkley is the only case of crt trying to enforce cc behaviour when having a home mooring. They lost.

 

We are currently shuffling around skipton and gargrave because our v lovely rural mooring is not fit for a baby and a mum to get to and from the road.

 

I don't expect any hassle for this.

 

I will be upset if we do, we are complying with the act.

 

Btw no one need waste their breath saying we should get a marina mooring, I'd rather leave the cut. And then crt lose my £2200 pa.

[GoodGurl]

The only person you can talk to is your local EO. It's his patch, so his rules.

Just make sure you make a note of what's said with date and time stamped.

No, get him to send you an email, notes are just hearsay and your word against theirs if push comes to shove.

[MtB]

I've been shuffling around bridge hopping the southern oxford now for six months, and get no hassle from CRT. I put this down to having a home mooring 20 miles away.

[Martin Megson]

 

I'm concerned some data logger starts logging me ......now I want to AVOID problems...not wait for a letter from CRT and THEN react to that....so I'm trying to understand how the new T&Cs, together with the new CC rules....apply to me....which is becoming more and more tricky, and definately not going to phone CRT to explain, because I suspect I'll get different answers depending on who picks up the phone.

I'll just wing it, and report back at the end of 2015.

 

I may be missing something here but where does it state that boat with a home mooring are treated as CC'ers when not on their mooring. The rules haven't changed so you cannot stay in one place for more than 14 days. However, unlike CC'ers who must move from A to B to C etc there is nothing to stop a boat with a home mooring to move from A to B and then back to A again.

 

Edit to add MtBs post above, which he posted while I was typing, is a case in point.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Meggers

[GoodGurl]

I've been shuffling around bridge hopping the southern oxford now for six months, and get no hassle from CRT. I put this down to having a home mooring 20 miles away.

you wont know this is so untill your license is due, 6 weeks before.

 

I may be missing something here but where does it state that boat with a home mooring are treated as CC'ers when not on their mooring. The rules haven't changed so you cannot stay in one place for more than 14 days. However, unlike CC'ers who muct move from A to B to C etc there is nothing to stop a boat with a home mooring to move from A to B and then back to A again

in the new T&Cs

[MtB]

 

I may be missing something here but where does it state that boat with a home mooring are treated as CC'ers when not on their mooring. The rules haven't changed so you cannot stay in one place for more than 14 days. However, unlike CC'ers who muct move from A to B to C etc there is nothing to stop a boat with a home mooring to move from A to B and then back to A again

 

 

you wont know this is so untill your license is due, 6 weeks before.

 

 

So what will I have to do? Get a home mooring?