Design and Layout Opinions

[Alan de Enfield]

camperlove, on 26 Nov 2014 - 1:23 PM, said:

Think I've nearly got it.

 

So a NORMAL pump out is where the Marina suck it out and say charge £30. (no macerator)

 

Or NON STANDARD, your macerator reduces it to a liquid that you can pump out and dispose of?

To use the CRT system, you need to pump it from your macerator in to their holding tank?

Nicely explained thanks

 

NO NO NO a macerator is nothing to do with the pump-out it is an optional extra on your boat toilet to get rid of lumps.

Just as there would be no difference if you had a wooden, or plastic toilet seat.

 

A pump-out will occur with a suction machine, irrespective of the boat having a macerator or not.

 

A self-pump-out is DIY (as explained above) and again is irresepective of having a macerator

 

Edited November 26, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Bettie Boo]

From a novices viewpoint - we have a trad stern and trad layout, this works well for us. Keeping in mind there are two of us at all times while cruising.

 

So would I change anything with hindsight?

 

Definitely wouldn't change the trad stern, it gives me a utility area inside the back door on one side and gives "him at the back" a tool storage area on the other side, both very useful.

 

I sometimes think I'd prefer a reverse layout in the summer months, as most people who come on-board tend to go to the stern rather than the bow. And it would be much more sociable for the helmsman if the galley/saloon were at the back

 

But now that winter is setting in; I'm quite happy with the reverse layout. It means when we are cruising on cold days, I can simply shut the main bedroom door and the front doors and the whole of the boat stays toasty and warm except for the main bedroom. But that has time to warm up once we've tied up for the day and have closed the back doors and opened the bedroom door.

 

As for loos, we have a pump out and carry a porta poti in the engine bay for emergencies (knock on wood, it's still in it's box thankfully). With the two of us we are now getting anywhere between 31 - 39 days out of a tank and have yet to have any issues of finding a pump out station when we need one. It normally costs us £15.00, but have had to pay up to £18.00 on occasion. Again, I think loos are really a personal preference; they all have their pros and cons; but I wouldn't be interested in changing our current set up.

 

Not sure if it really does make a difference or not, someone with more experience would be able to advise; but I would "think" the amount of angle of your tumble-home would also make a difference in the maneuverability/control you have over your boat when cruising in windy conditions. Would a straight sided boat not catch the wind more so than a boat with sloped tumble-homes?

[camperlove]

 

NO NO NO a macerator is nothing to do with the pump-out it is an optional extra on your boat toilet to get rid of lumps.

Just as there would be no difference if you had a wooden, or plastic toilet seat.

 

A pump-out will occur with a suction machine, irrespective of the boat having a macerator or not.

 

A self-pump-out is DIY (as explained above) and again is irresepective of having a macerator

 

Great, that was my original understanding that the macerator just converted toilet contents to liquid before it went in to the tank.

So the self pump-out is just a pump in the tank with a separate outlet.

[camperlove]

From a novices viewpoint - we have a trad stern and trad layout, this works well for us. Keeping in mind there are two of us at all times while cruising.

 

So would I change anything with hindsight?

 

Definitely wouldn't change the trad stern, it gives me a utility area inside the back door on one side and gives "him at the back" a tool storage area on the other side, both very useful.

 

I sometimes think I'd prefer a reverse layout in the summer months, as most people who come on-board tend to go to the stern rather than the bow. And it would be much more sociable for the helmsman if the galley/saloon were at the back

 

But now that winter is setting in; I'm quite happy with the reverse layout. It means when we are cruising on cold days, I can simply shut the main bedroom door and the front doors and the whole of the boat stays toasty and warm except for the main bedroom. But that has time to warm up once we've tied up for the day and have closed the back doors and opened the bedroom door.

 

As for loos, we have a pump out and carry a porta poti in the engine bay for emergencies (knock on wood, it's still in it's box thankfully). With the two of us we are now getting anywhere between 31 - 39 days out of a tank and have yet to have any issues of finding a pump out station when we need one. It normally costs us £15.00, but have had to pay up to £18.00 on occasion. Again, I think loos are really a personal preference; they all have their pros and cons; but I wouldn't be interested in changing our current set up.

 

Not sure if it really does make a difference or not, someone with more experience would be able to advise; but I would "think" the amount of angle of your tumble-home would also make a difference in the maneuverability/control you have over your boat when cruising in windy conditions. Would a straight sided boat not catch the wind more so than a boat with sloped tumble-homes?

Very useful thanks, so as a single person and being careful I would get more than 60 days and it's also cheaper than I thought. I'm also in agreement about the trad stern spare portapot.

[Alan de Enfield]

Great, that was my original understanding that the macerator just converted toilet contents to liquid before it went in to the tank.

So the self pump-out is just a pump in the tank with a separate outlet.

 

I understand that the majority of self-pump outs are not 'built in'.

You have a pump that you sit on the tow-path (manual / electric / petrol)

You conect a length of suction pipe from the pump, down the pump out 'hole' to the 'tank contents'

You have a length of pipe that you run from the pump to your chosen 'receiving point'.

 

You need to store your pipes and pump somewhere on board.

 

There are variations to this system as they are generally 'custom-made' to suit each individual.

[camperlove]

 

I understand that the majority of self-pump outs are not 'built in'.

You have a pump that you sit on the tow-path (manual / electric / petrol)

You conect a length of suction pipe from the pump, down the pump out 'hole' to the 'tank contents'

You have a length of pipe that you run from the pump to your chosen 'receiving point'.

 

You need to store your pipes and pump somewhere on board.

 

There are variations to this system as they are generally 'custom-made' to suit each individual.

I see, glad I asked about this, didn't realise such combinations. Wouldn't fancy carrying the pump and pipes onboard, think I would rather be careful and pay £15-20 every 60 days for a pump out. Use the sanitary stations when passing by etc.

[Bettie Boo]

Don't forget, the length of time it takes to fill your waste tank depends mostly on the size of the tank, along with a few other things which I won't go into, but have been discussed at length on the numerous loo threads.

 

I have no idea how many gallons/liters ours is, but it takes up a little better than 1/2 of the underside of our full size double bed, which is also slightly higher than a normal free standing bed.

[camperlove]

Don't forget, the length of time it takes to fill your waste tank depends mostly on the size of the tank, along with a few other things which I won't go into, but have been discussed at length on the numerous loo threads.

 

I have no idea how many gallons/liters ours is, but it takes up a little better than 1/2 of the underside of our full size double bed, which is also slightly higher than a normal free standing bed.

Yes good thinking, must compare sizes, noticed the water tanks vary considerably

[system 4-50]

There is a temptation with pump outs to be profligate with water so they don't last as long as they might. With a cassette the need to be frugal is right in your face.

[Athy]

. With a cassette the need to be frugal is right in your face.

A vivid turn of phrase, though I hope not an apt one.

Many boaters use pub toilets in an effort to minimise wear and tear on their cassettes; in my experience this is often counter-productive!

[camperlove]

A vivid turn of phrase, though I hope not an apt one.

Many boaters use pub toilets in an effort to minimise wear and tear on their cassettes; in my experience this is often counter-productive!

Totally agree on that one if you're buying a beer at the same time!

[Alan de Enfield]

A vivid turn of phrase, though I hope not an apt one.

Many boaters use pub toilets in an effort to minimise wear and tear on their cassettes; in my experience this is often counter-productive!

 

Cut out the middle man and pour it straight down their toilet

[bottle]

Thanks, that's why I thought best to keep neutral on the design, I was initially cruiser stern and now I'm going more towards the Trad. Think pump out and carry a portaloo with cassette for emergencies if you have the extra space.

 

By George he's got it.

[canals are us?]

I have a trad stern and salon at the bow, then, galley, shower room and bedroom, then modern engine room/storage.

 

The only thing I would change is have an extra wide hatch so 2 people could stand at the tiller and a bigger floor area to stand on.

Mine has a thetford C200 Cassette loo and one cassette lasts me a week as a single liveaboard.

 

James

[Dyertribe]

A pump-out is generally a shore based 'suction' machine that takes your black waste and stores it in a tank or directly into the main sewer depending on the connection the marina (for example) has.

 

Self-Pumpout generally refers to YOU having a pump and a length of sufficiently sized pipe on board, you find a suitable place to pump-out - maybe trying to use a toilet or Elsan point, or lifting a man-hole and then pumping out 'yourself'.

Some self pumpouters seem to pump out into 25 litres containers and then take those to the nearest elsan point

 

Self-Pumpouters who try to use a standard elsan / toilet are somewhat 'frowned upon' as the flow rate is often more than a toilet can handle and 'serious blow backs' are not uncommon.

I think DeanS has posted some pictures in the past showing the results of a self-pumperouter having a blow-back.

 

 

 

That's when the s**t has hit the pan!

[camperlove]

I have a trad stern and salon at the bow, then, galley, shower room and bedroom, then modern engine room/storage.

 

The only thing I would change is have an extra wide hatch so 2 people could stand at the tiller and a bigger floor area to stand on.

Mine has a thetford C200 Cassette loo and one cassette lasts me a week as a single liveaboard.

 

James

Thanks, I notice that some Trads have 2 small seats at the back but I'm guessing that's really just for one person to swap sides?

[Neil2]

Thanks, I notice that some Trads have 2 small seats at the back but I'm guessing that's really just for one person to swap sides?

No.

 

A trad stern boat is steered from within the stern doors. Those seats are for people who wish they had bought a cruiser.

 

It is foolhardy and dangerous to steer a boat when you are standing, or sitting, within the tiller arc.

 

If you fancy a rest and there isn't much steering to do you sit on the cabin roof with your legs dangling within the hatch. You get a nice elevated view up there too.