French permis and other questions

[Stilllearning]

There has been a need for that icon for as long as I have known this site!

[Bee]

Just a quickie about narrowboats and wide beam narrowboat style boats. It is essential to be able to get all along the deck, and quickly, to get at all the different varieties of bollards in lock walls. They will not be spaced anything like right for narrowboats and a person at the front in the welldeck and one at the back on the counter will find it really 'challenging'. Its ok on the small canals but life on the big canals can be hard enough without bouncing around all over the place in locks.

[peterboat]

Just a quickie about narrowboats and wide beam narrowboat style boats. It is essential to be able to get all along the deck, and quickly, to get at all the different varieties of bollards in lock walls. They will not be spaced anything like right for narrowboats and a person at the front in the welldeck and one at the back on the counter will find it really 'challenging'. Its ok on the small canals but life on the big canals can be hard enough without bouncing around all over the place in locks.

I am on big Northern waterways in a widebeam and have no problem with our large locks we have a wheelhouse as well, admittedly our gunwales are larger than normal but I do try to keep off them if possible. Plenty of others and me included used narrowboats on these waterways as well

 

Peter

[Tam & Di]

I am on big Northern waterways in a widebeam and have no problem with our large locks we have a wheelhouse as well, admittedly our gunwales are larger than normal but I do try to keep off them if possible. Plenty of others and me included used narrowboats on these waterways as well

 

But your post yesterday said you were in Spotborough. Continental lock usage is quite different; you can be in locks with vessels up to 180m which have one fore line to a lockside bollard and are in head gear driving against that to hold steady. You have to be very prompt to get your own line on and use the same technique or you are likely to be spun round out of control in the lock once the paddles are lifted. You also have to be able to deal with the turbulence they are creating. The locks are operated from a remote control tower, generally by someone who just assumes everyone knows what they are doing, and this can give amateurs a lot of grief, especially if they have a narrow boat with difficult access from one end to the other and limited working space for use of lines.

 

VHF usage is mandatory, but very few UK narrowboat visitors have the necessary language skills to be able to deal with the sort of problems they might encounter in locks.

 

It is very difficult to use this technique if you only have one central tee stud at the fore end, as it is almost impossible to lie parallel with the wall in that case. I have made suggestions on an earlier thread as to how this can be overcome to a large extent.

 

Tam

Edited January 1, 2015 by Tam & Di

[Guest]

Hmm,,, I didn't see this at the time, but got here by a link from the current "Looking to buy a boat in France" thread. I do indeed think that standard UK narrowboats are unsuited to continental inland waterways, but I do always give my reasons and have made suggestions to how they can be modified to make them safer. Simply repeatedly saying "people do it" does not advance the discussion or offer practical advice, and inexperienced narrowboaters contemplating the idea can be seriously misled.

 

What TDH really needs is a "smug" na-na-ne-nanah icon.

 

Tam

No the chosen one will suffice thanks. I just thought mikes post deserved a bit of a smile. Please don't presume as to what the 'smiley' was meant to indicate.

 

I am not going to get into the whole debate about the suitability thing again either. People will read your advice and the blogs of people who do actually do it, noting which waters they choose to put their boats on and will make up their own minds.

 

Forum member Biggles was over there (but now home I think) on the continental waterways with his WB which I believe has had some adaptions to better suit being just one example.

 

The fact is people do do it and appear to do OK as long as they are sensible and take appropriate advice.

Edited January 1, 2015 by The Dog House

[Tam & Di]

No the chosen one will suffice thanks. I just thought mikes post deserved a bit of a smile. Please don't presume as to what the 'smiley' was meant to indicate.

 

And what practical advice based on experience have you given to people who ask about taking a narrowboat to France? And why the smiley to Blackrose if not to implicitly agree with his post? I'm afraid your posts on this and other topics often do appear smug to me, sniping but contributing very little constructive thought.

 

Tam

[Guest]

And what practical advice based on experience have you given to people who ask about taking a narrowboat to France? And why the smiley to Blackrose if not to implicitly agree with his post? I'm afraid your posts on this and other topics often do appear smug to me, sniping but contributing very little constructive thought.

 

Tam

I actually thought his post was mildly amusing. I note your opinion of my posts but it doesn't really conern or interest me what you think TBH. If you have a beef with what Mike posted take it up with him not me. I should add that at least one other person actually seems to agree with Mike as his post was given a 'greenie' by someone and it wasn't me.

 

As to the first question, well I fail to see what is wrong with saying seek advice from the likes of you and read the blogs of others who have actually done it, clearly not given from practical perspective but certainly a sensible and valid perspective I would say.

 

I also suggested at the outset of this thread that the OP may get more experienced opinions on the DBA forum as the contingent of continental boaters on here is as you know quite small in number. I think they followed up on this. Again sensible advice I would say, even if not based on practical continental boating experience but equally valid as a suggestion.

Edited January 1, 2015 by The Dog House

[peterboat]

 

But your post yesterday said you were in Spotborough. Continental lock usage is quite different; you can be in locks with vessels up to 180m which have one fore line to a lockside bollard and are in head gear driving against that to hold steady. You have to be very prompt to get your own line on and use the same technique or you are likely to be spun round out of control in the lock once the paddles are lifted. You also have to be able to deal with the turbulence they are creating. The locks are operated from a remote control tower, generally by someone who just assumes everyone knows what they are doing, and this can give amateurs a lot of grief, especially if they have a narrow boat with difficult access from one end to the other and limited working space for use of lines.

 

VHF usage is mandatory, but very few UK narrowboat visitors have the necessary language skills to be able to deal with the sort of problems they might encounter in locks.

 

It is very difficult to use this technique if you only have one central tee stud at the fore end, as it is almost impossible to lie parallel with the wall in that case. I have made suggestions on an earlier thread as to how this can be overcome to a large extent.

 

Tam

W e are at Kilnhurst now stuck because the river is in flood fingers crossed we will go through tomorrow. The S and SY still has commercial traffic on it Humber Princess and Pride which are quite large not as big as Rhine barges I admit but if they give you a tap its all over but the sinking. I presume that you can turn down sharing a lock with the large craft just like yoghurt pots refuse sometimes to share a lock with me.

 

Peter

[Tam & Di]

I presume that you can turn down sharing a lock with the large craft just like yoghurt pots refuse sometimes to share a lock with me.

 

 

Although you could refuse to go in with a large vessel that would mean you would not move for days on some canals. I doubt the lock keeper would be happy to work his e.g. 140m x 12.5m lock just for a plaisance which had refused to lock through for several hours either. But the main difficulty is as I said the very different way of locking through, where you use a single line at the fore end and keep the boat in head gear against that. I've seen reports by people saying they don't tie up in locks, and this can sometimes work OK, but going uphill the turbulence can sometimes be quite extreme even without another craft in head gear as I described. I've seen little hire boats which were not able to get their line(s) on quick enough before the lock keeper operated the paddles and which were spun around and round in the lock, to the horror of those on board.

 

I do hate that term for grp boats by the way. I learned back in the late 50s when I started on canals that many small craft were owned by people with far more experience and knowledge than me, and avoided such perjorative terms since then.

 

Tam

[Athy]

 

 

I do hate that term for grp boats by the way. I learned back in the late 50s when I started on canals that many small craft were owned by people with far more experience and knowledge than me, and avoided such perjorative terms since then.

 

Tam

Stamp out those evil, offensive yoghurtpottists!

I don't think that the term is necessarily pejorative. I actually saw a GRP cruiser on the canals last year named 'Yoghurt'.

Is there a French equivalent, pots a yaourt or similar?

[Tam & Di]

 

I don't think that the term is necessarily pejorative. I actually saw a GRP cruiser on the canals last year named 'Yoghurt'.

Is there a French equivalent, pots a yaourt or similar?

 

Maybe not, though it does always have elements of "not as good as a real boat like mine" when I hear people using the term.

 

The nearest I know of in France is some commercial batelliers refer to the occasional narrowboat as a "bateau saucisson" - sausage boat.

 

Tam

[Athy]

 

Maybe not, though it does always have elements of "not as good as a real boat like mine" when I hear people using the term.

 

The nearest I know of in France is some commercial batelliers refer to the occasional narrowboat as a "bateau saucisson" - sausage boat.

 

Tam

I'm imagining a Two Ronnies & John Cleese type of sketch involving a GRP cruiser owner, a Springer dweller and a Hudson more expensive boat proprietor: "I look down on him because...."

 

Thanks for the "bateau saucisson" epithet. I think that if we ever have another new boat, 'Saucisson' will be on the short list of names for it.

[bargemast]

"Pot de yahourt" is used for small cars, like all the small cars you see in France that you can drive without a permis.

 

Before they were often the only means of individual transport for people that couldn't pass their driving test, or people that didn't have a licence anymore because they lost all their points.

 

In general you have to be very careful if you see one of these in front of you, as the often change direction without using their indicators, and at night when you see taillights in front of you they may be very close, as they may mislead you by being so close apart.

 

http://www.bravolapetitefleur.com/2012/06/21/dou-vient-lexpression-pot-de-yaourt-pour-designer-une-voiture/

 

The story is in French as you can see, but as this was a question asked by Athy, he'll have no problem reading this.

 

Peter.

Edited January 3, 2015 by bargemast

[Albion]

 

 

Hmm,,, I didn't see this at the time, but got here by a link from the current "Looking to buy a boat in France" thread. I do indeed think that standard UK narrowboats are unsuited to continental inland waterways, but I do always give my reasons and have made suggestions to how they can be modified to make them safer. Simply repeatedly saying "people do it" does not advance the discussion or offer practical advice, and inexperienced narrowboaters contemplating the idea can be seriously misled.

Tam

 

 

Just a quickie about narrowboats and wide beam narrowboat style boats. It is essential to be able to get all along the deck, and quickly, to get at all the different varieties of bollards in lock walls. They will not be spaced anything like right for narrowboats and a person at the front in the welldeck and one at the back on the counter will find it really 'challenging'. Its ok on the small canals but life on the big canals can be hard enough without bouncing around all over the place in locks.

Absolutely agree with these two posts. One can 'manage' with a narrowboat or wide beam equivalent but 'managing' isn't comfortable or safe necessarily. The need to be able to quickly and easily get along the side decks for access to awkwardly positioned lock-side bollards or automatic lock operation rods is very necessary IMO having done some of them.

Roger

[Athy]

 

 

 

The story is in French as you can see, but as this was a question asked by Athy, he'll have no problem reading this.

 

Peter.

Thanks, Peter - I had no idea that the French "yoghurt pot" was a nickname originally applied to bubble cars. I was pleased, also, to be reminded of the French name for the 'Avengers' TV series*, which I had forgotten.

 

As for the rather grim humour of these tiny cars' other nickname - "Bus suppository" - I have mixed feelings about that.

 

* "Chapeau Melon et Bottes de Cuir" = Bowler Hat and Leather Boots.

[cariad]

 

Maybe not, though it does always have elements of "not as good as a real boat like mine" when I hear people using the term.

 

The nearest I know of in France is some commercial batelliers refer to the occasional narrowboat as a "bateau saucisson" - sausage boat.

 

Tam

A French boating couple informed us that narrow boats are also referred to as bateau flute and with wry smile a bateau suppository. This was quite

funny as she was trying to remember the English word, but couldn't and finally had to gesticulate what she meant.

[Athy]

A French boating couple informed us that narrow boats are also referred to as bateau flute and with wry smile a bateau suppository. This was quite

funny as she was trying to remember the English word, but couldn't and finally had to gesticulate what she meant.

Gesticulate which? I suppose that if it was the flute you told her that she could whistle for it, if it was the other you told her where to shove it.

[bargemast]

Thanks, Peter - I had no idea that the French "yoghurt pot" was a nickname originally applied to bubble cars. I was pleased, also, to be reminded of the French name for the 'Avengers' TV series*, which I had forgotten.

 

As for the rather grim humour of these tiny cars' other nickname - "Bus suppository" - I have mixed feelings about that.

 

* "Chapeau Melon et Bottes de Cuir" = Bowler Hat and Leather Boots.

 

Et Vive Emma Peel ! (and not the Peel cars yoghurt pots)

Edited January 3, 2015 by bargemast

[Athy]

 

Et Vive Emma Peel ! (and not the Peel cars yoghurt pots)

 

 

 

Et Vive Emma Peel ! (and not the Peel cars yoghurt pots)

A very neat link, Peter!

 

 

Er, it was Honor Blackman (Diana "Emma Peel" Rigg's predecessor in the programme) who wore the "kinky" leather boots. At least, I think it was.

[Timleech]

 

But your post yesterday said you were in Spotborough. Continental lock usage is quite different; you can be in locks with vessels up to 180m which have one fore line to a lockside bollard and are in head gear driving against that to hold steady. You have to be very prompt to get your own line on and use the same technique or you are likely to be spun round out of control in the lock once the paddles are lifted. You also have to be able to deal with the turbulence they are creating. The locks are operated from a remote control tower, generally by someone who just assumes everyone knows what they are doing, and this can give amateurs a lot of grief, especially if they have a narrow boat with difficult access from one end to the other and limited working space for use of lines.

 

Tam

 

I agree, having boated extensively on Continental waterways as well as those in Yorkshire (including when the latter were still busy with commercial traffic), there is very little similarity between the Yorkshire experience and that on the busy Continental waterways.

 

Tim