Poly vee belt expiry?

[Timleech]

 

I've been very kind so far and not picked up on your use of an ELECTRIC KETTLE!

 

Richard

 

There's a simple, practical reason for that (boring serious answer).

The boat doesn't lend itself to a gas installation which wouldn't involve some sort of nasty excrescence on the outside, getting in the way and spoiling the appearance.

I've plumped for a mix of old and new technology, with a paraffin cooker (Taylors, basically two Primus burners linked to one tank), plus electric kettle and microwave.

The paraffin cooker is great, I've used them extensively in the past, but it does require pre-heating so boiling a kettle for tea is a lengthy process. Also not everyone is familiar with coaxing it into life, but anyone can switch on an electric kettle With two hefty alternators, the load on the batteries when under way is minimal. Makes the engine grunt, though!

 

Tim

[bizzard]

The bit where the rib stripped off is now the weak bit of the belt as far as grip is concerned and may now give a wee slip every time it passes over a pulley when under load until more bits of rib peel off in the same area until it has a bald patch. This is usually what happens with vehicle multi-vee belts too when they begin to fail. A bit like a flat tyre on a railway train wheel caused by a wheel lock up under heavy braking. The same wheel will then continue to pick up before the others on the flat bit and lock under braking until the flat spot becomes severe and the coach or whatever has to be taken out of service for wheel tyre turning or renewal. You have probably heard trains go past with a flat tyre making a rythmic bang, bang, bang, bang, bang noise caused by a flat tyre.

[nicknorman]

Ok all 3 belts now replaced. The other two looked fine but... The offending belt showed some separation of the edge rib all round, and in fact there were 2 places where a bit of rib was missing, roughly evenly spaced, and the whole edge on that side showing signs of wear. Suggests that the pulleys are not perfectly aligned though it doesn't look easy to adjust. I'll post some photos later.

 

The polyvees are correctly tensioned but it is scary to watch them with engine at idle and a 2kw load on. The "slack" side fair flaps around. Not sure if this is despite, or because of, the free wheels.

Edited September 1, 2014 by nicknorman

[RLWP]

Thanks Nick, looking forward to the photos

 

Richard

[nicknorman]

Frayed polyvee belt by nick.norman, on Flickr

 

Frayed polyvee belt by nick.norman, on Flickr

[Paul C]

Yeah they're definitely knackered. Even the area which isn't missing the rubber strip/groove, you can see is severely worn because the rubber is all cracked.

[nicknorman]

Yeah they're definitely knackered. Even the area which isn't missing the rubber strip/groove, you can see is severely worn because the rubber is all cracked.

Yes it does look bad in the photo when zoomed. It didn't look so bad "in the flesh" but maybe that was due to a lack of glasses!

Edited September 1, 2014 by nicknorman

[bargemast]

The replacement of your belts has been money well spent, they were looking pretty tired.

 

Peter.

[nicknorman]

The replacement of your belts has been money well spent, they were looking pretty tired.

 

Peter.

The photos are just the one belt. The belt from the 175A alternator looked much better (although I replaced it anyway). It's interesting to note that, whilst the 175A alternator works much harder overall, its crank pulley is a little bigger than the TravelPower one. Bigger crank pulley = faster belt speed and hence less belt force for a given power transfer. This despite the 175A alternator being able to deliver around 2kw whilst the TravelPower can deliver 3.5kw (albeit at more elevated engine rpm).

 

Although I suspect the main issue for the damage at the edge is pulley alignment. Unfortunately I don't have a suitable straight edge on the boat to check it with.

 

What is slightly spooky is that I check the engine from time to time and never noticed a problem with the belts, no excessive black dust etc. but recently I thought I ought to have some spares and so obtained them (from Beta) and took them down to the boat a couple of weeks ago. Definitely good timing!

Edited September 1, 2014 by nicknorman

[aread2]

Any damage at all to the Travelpower drive belt would prompt me to replace it immediately. I've had a lot fail due to alignment issues (up until recently when that was sorted out) with the TP pulleys. My belts generally failed because they jumped over the edge of the pulley and crashed into the next belt in. This results in belt shredding, often a vee section at a time; the 7pk becomes a 6pk, then a 5pk until it snapped. The long narrow sections of rubber can work their way down the crankshaft, behind the inner pulley. If this happens, there is a real risk the shreds can work their way into the oil seal and tear it. I've had this happen twice in seven years, The first time, all the oil was dumped into the bilge in a matter of minutes, second time causing stead drip of oil being flung around the engine compartment.

[nicknorman]

Any damage at all to the Travelpower drive belt would prompt me to replace it immediately. I've had a lot fail due to alignment issues (up until recently when that was sorted out) with the TP pulleys. My belts generally failed because they jumped over the edge of the pulley and crashed into the next belt in. This results in belt shredding, often a vee section at a time; the 7pk becomes a 6pk, then a 5pk until it snapped. The long narrow sections of rubber can work their way down the crankshaft, behind the inner pulley. If this happens, there is a real risk the shreds can work their way into the oil seal and tear it. I've had this happen twice in seven years, The first time, all the oil was dumped into the bilge in a matter of minutes, second time causing stead drip of oil being flung around the engine compartment.

Doesn't sound too good! Was it a Beta engine? How was the alignment finally corrected? - doesn't seem to be room to add any washers etc.

[Arthur Brown]

Belt £10 DIY fitting £10,

 

new alternator £100, new water pump £250 with labour,

 

Why wait it's a accident waiting to happen, and accidents only happen when the consequential damage is most expensive. (over a weir is a good one)

[Grace and Favour]

Thanks for raising this thread.

 

Two years ago I bought three sets of spare belts (70A alt, 175A alt and a 3.5Kw TP).

They cost £93, and I started a total belt replacement every three years (as part of planned maintenance), I didn't know whether I was being over-cautious, but thought 'rather safe than sorry' would be the best maxim.

 

After replacing the first set, they appeared to have almost no wear, but the observations in this thread have reassured me that caution is better than calamity.

[gazza]

£93 quid for 3 poly vee belts?

 

Ouch! That's a bit savage!

[nicknorman]

£93 quid for 3 poly vee belts?

Ouch! That's a bit savage!

I just paid £92 for the 3 belts and two oil filters and one fuel filter, all from Beta. So I suspect G&F is mis-rembering the price.

 

I did have a look on t'internet for cheaper belts but the cost didn't seem that much less, and you can't easily get the make of belts supplied by Beta - Optibelt, which I think is Dutch.

[gazza]

Same tip that has come up for several of late.

 

Look for a local bearing/power transmission specialist. They will have a gauge for measuring belts. Poly vee belts are used in all sorts of applications, a good stockist will locate your belts with ease.

 

Your filters can be cross referenced at a good motor factors. The belts could also be sourced at a clued up factors. The gates belt catalogue is very useful for identifying belts for automotive application. It would be a great surprise if they did not make a belt suitable for your engine.

 

Beta prices are pretty steep. There is no need to get rinsed to the tune of £90+ for at best £40 of bits (including your filters)

[Grace and Favour]

I just paid £92 for the 3 belts and two oil filters and one fuel filter, all from Beta. So I suspect G&F is mis-rembering the price.

 

I did have a look on t'internet for cheaper belts but the cost didn't seem that much less, and you can't easily get the make of belts supplied by Beta - Optibelt, which I think is Dutch.

Ah!

The company I bought them from is Europarts, and the actual cost was £93.49, for three polyvee belts, and six v belts, carriage and vat inclusive. The engine is a Beta 75hp

Edited September 1, 2014 by Grace & Favour

[gazza]

Thats a bit more like it, average of £10 odd including postage per belt :-)

[nicknorman]

Same tip that has come up for several of late.

Look for a local bearing/power transmission specialist. They will have a gauge for measuring belts. Poly vee belts are used in all sorts of applications, a good stockist will locate your belts with ease.

Your filters can be cross referenced at a good motor factors. The belts could also be sourced at a clued up factors. The gates belt catalogue is very useful for identifying belts for automotive application. It would be a great surprise if they did not make a belt suitable for your engine.

Beta prices are pretty steep. There is no need to get rinsed to the tune of £90+ for at best £40 of bits (including your filters)

I did previously get a few filters from inline filters and they were cheaper, but not massively. On the belts, I suppose I am nervous 1/ because I don't really understand belt numbers -yes its a 1090 6pk but then there seem to be various suffixes, no idea what they mean! Also I would want a decent make, I don't think its something to be scrimped on. And 2/ until now I didn't have sample belts to take to the factors, but I do now! But really, probably £65 for the 3 belts is not a great stressor every 3 years so maybe I'll just take the easy option!

 

Confusingly, the v belt (for the engine alternator / water pump) arrived with a different length designator (it was a significantly bigger number) despite Beta's WOK number (build number) which identifies the particular engine build spec. However, it transpired it was the same length as the original or slightly shorter, and it was a struggle to get it over the pulleys. So that really confused me!

[gazza]

The suffix usual refers to manufacturer's batch numbers etc.

As you say, you now have some belts to match :-)

As far as quality belts, you are looking for dayco, gates, continental Goodyear etc. Brands that you should recognise.

 

Filters have a ludicrous mark up on them, go for Mann, Baldwin, cross land, coopers or fram - have a downer on them by the yanks but I have never had a problem with them.

 

You rightly point out that convenience can sometimes trump cost, it pains me to say it, but just occasionally - especially when time is a factor, the more expensive option (at point of sale) has proved to be cheaper in the end.

 

You don't need a belt to be a great deal shorter to give you trouble fitting it, usually when space and time are both limited :-)

[bargemast]

I just paid £92 for the 3 belts and two oil filters and one fuel filter, all from Beta. So I suspect G&F is mis-rembering the price.

 

I did have a look on t'internet for cheaper belts but the cost didn't seem that much less, and you can't easily get the make of belts supplied by Beta - Optibelt, which I think is Dutch.

 

As far as I know, Optibelts are a German product.

 

Peter.

[Timleech]

Confusingly, the v belt (for the engine alternator / water pump) arrived with a different length designator (it was a significantly bigger number) despite Beta's WOK number (build number) which identifies the particular engine build spec. However, it transpired it was the same length as the original or slightly shorter, and it was a struggle to get it over the pulleys. So that really confused me!

 

Vee/wedge belts can have the lengths specified in inches or millimetres. Sometimes both are marked on the same belt, but often not.

 

Tim

[nicknorman]

Vee/wedge belts can have the lengths specified in inches or millimetres. Sometimes both are marked on the same belt, but often not.

 

Tim

The numbers were quite close though. I'm not on the boat at the moment but it was something of the order of 900 -and - something for the original, and 1000 - and - something for the replacement, ie roughly 100 or so between them. But if anything the replacement was shorter (although could have been that the old one had stretched a bit / sitting lower on the pulleys.) Edited September 2, 2014 by nicknorman

[Grace and Favour]

Ah!

The company I bought them from is Europarts, and the actual cost was £93.49, for three polyvee belts, and six v belts, carriage and vat inclusive. The engine is a Beta 75hp

And, from memory, the belts are by Gates, (like Nick, I would not contemplate scrimping on quality)

[aread2]

Doesn't sound too good! Was it a Beta engine? How was the alignment finally corrected? - doesn't seem to be room to add any washers etc.

It's a Beta BV1902S (basically Beta 43 in acoustic enclosure). The Travelpower is a 5.5 kVA mounted at the top so there's more room I think than the non acoustic version mounted at the bottom. TBH I haven't looked since it was done at the beginning of August as I'd have to dismantle the housing.