Climate Change

[Tinally]

"I have a real bee in my bonnet about the FRIVOLOUS squandering of energy for no better reason than "it's pretty".

 

Me too Snibble! My neighbours have their garden lit up like a Theme Park at night. They are inside with the curtains drawn, so it's just to impress passers-by.......who are few and far between in the rural location where we live! I look across the darkened fields to the A16 in the far distance ( very far luckily! ) and wonder why it is necessary to light up a virtually empty road throughout the night? Don't headlights work any more? Grimsby and Cleethorpes are to the north west, their presence shown by a vast orange dome of light pollution in the sky. When I were a lad and knee high to a milking stool, the streetlights in the village used to be turned off at midnight. After that you took a torch out with you. I think we now have large numbers of people who've never actually been out in the dark ( as opposed to "after dark" ) and would be scared to do so!!

 

Dick

[carlt]

we are a natural inhabitant, using natural resoures, that makes us part of the eco system, we alone cannot change the eco system by using less resourses. unfortunately for us, i think the planet will form its own defence to its parasite and something will change on the planet to wipe us out.

 

basically, we will be responsible for our own downfall, but the planet wont cease to exist just because we do. it may become uninhabitable for us, but life still goes on...

therefore, we cannot effect the planet in the grand scheme of things, only ourselves.

 

No problem then. Chuck another fridge on the fire. However, as the main witnesses to the planets development, and demise, if we create a cataclysmic event that wipes us out (which would take out most of the other living species, as we're pretty hardy) then the planet might as well cease to exist. This world ends the day I die.

[Sir Nibble]

This world ends the day I die.

Me too, I have no kids. Let the lemmings have their way.

[gaggle]

 

yes bring on climate change.

 

just got back from a good run around the beach at crosby, the wind is gusting to 65 mph the tide is on the way out and it is fantastic stuff.

 

only wish i still had the energy to run into the waves.

 

whatever the weather we have to live with it so get out and enjoy it.

[Phil Speight]

Battlecruiser HMS Tiger, the name of the boat I live on.

I also have a boat called INFLEXIBLE and a dinghy called INDOMITABLE.

 

edited to correct a couple of errors in typing

Ah! Tiger ,described in one of my books as the finest battlecruiser afloat when she was new . Me eyes aren`t as good as they used to be! I should have guessed from the Beatty quote.Sorry folks , back to the canal eh..............

Phil

[blackrose]

we are a natural inhabitant, using natural resoures, that makes us part of the eco system, we alone cannot change the eco system by using less resourses. unfortunately for us, i think the planet will form its own defence to its parasite and something will change on the planet to wipe us out.

 

basically, we will be responsible for our own downfall, but the planet wont cease to exist just because we do. it may become uninhabitable for us, but life still goes on...

therefore, we cannot effect the planet in the grand scheme of things, only ourselves.

 

Yes, we are part of the ecosystem, but the difference between ourselves and other organisms is that we alone understand our effects on that ecosystem and no other species can contemplate their own demise. We are the only species that has changed its behaviour to such an extent that it threatens to severly disrupt the ecosystem and only we amongst the species have the ability to consciously moderate our behaviour in order to protect our environment. Whether this would ameliorate the damage is open to question, but the ability to choose to do so, or not to is also part of nature.

Edited January 18, 2007 by blackrose

[honey ryder]

im not sure that an absolute, maybe we are not the only species that knows of our own demise, maybe other intelligent species know of it and we are too blind to see it.

we as a species are still quite primative, we still fight over land/territory, females still quaff their plumage to attract a male, men still rutt to prove they are strong, people still fight over power issues which can potentially give them a higher status in society.

WHen you look at it cold, we really are still basic creatures, we've just developed a lot of tools and things to make life more comfortable... not really to advance the species.

 

I plan to live in a yurt some day in the future, that really is quite a basic way of living, but whos to say that isnt the way forward?

[Sir Nibble]

maybe we are not the only species that knows of our own demise

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[blackrose]

im not sure that an absolute, maybe we are not the only species that knows of our own demise, maybe other intelligent species know of it and we are too blind to see it.

Which species?

 

we as a species are still quite primative, we still fight over land/territory, females still quaff their plumage to attract a male, men still rutt to prove they are strong, people still fight over power issues which can potentially give them a higher status in society.

WHen you look at it cold, we really are still basic creatures, we've just developed a lot of tools and things to make life more comfortable... not really to advance the species.

Yes, we are still animals, with all the instincs of our primate sub-species, but since we are the most intelligent organism on the planet I don't see how we could be called "primitive & basic" - compared to what? Ok, we have primitive urges and instincts but we also have a pretty sophisticated consciousness.

Edited January 18, 2007 by blackrose

[Sir Nibble]

we also have a pretty sophisticated consciousness.

To toss your own point back at you, compared to what? I mean, I would lke to think I am a bit brighter than the average oyster, but then the oyster would like to think the same about Jade Goody.

[carlt]

To toss your own point back at you, compared to what? I mean, I would lke to think I am a bit brighter than the average oyster, but then the oyster would like to think the same about Jade Goody.

To toss it right back (obvious double entendres on a postcard to 'Fridaaay' please) The current outcry over Ms Goody's brainless rantings prove it don't take a very highly developed intellect to have a big effect.

[Bones]

but do we need consciousness to be aware?!

 

edited for the mistake carlt pointed out! doh

Edited January 18, 2007 by Bones

[carlt]

but we do we need consciousness to be aware?!

We do do we?

[Sir Nibble]

I drink, therefore I am.

[Carrie]

Yes the climate has changed in the past and the Greenland ice cores provide exactly the evidence John says. What is not mentioned is that the changes in the past took place over 1000's of years, not the couple of hundred we are witnessing now.

 

The climatic effects we are witnessing fit very precisely within computer models of increasing greenhouse gases since the start of the industrial revolution. As in any scientific theory, abolute proof does not exist - we should work on the balanceof probability - which is overwhelmingly that it has a human cause. The few scientists still saying it is nothing we have done but just a natural cycle are mostly sponsored by oil companies and other industries, concerned not about the planet but profits.

 

We should accept that we are very probably responsible and do what we can to lesson the effects. Should time prove the small minority right, and it is totally natural, we may have done little for the long term health of the planet. Should we not try to avert climate change, and it is our fault future generations (if there are any) will suffer for our complacency.

 

 

I agree with everything you say - except the last bit, Doctor. Whatever we do, we are pretty much fucked. The only question remaining is by how much and that's the bit we still have some control over. The horror of it all is that those of us causing the problem to worsen (the wealthy countries) will be affected least, while the global south suffers. Same'ol, same'ol.

Capitalism and globalisation are just unsustainable. Until and unless we drop the idea that we can continue to 'grow' in the same greedy consumerist way, the situation ain't likely to change. The worse, in my opinion, are those twats wringing their hands over droughts, floods, hurricanes, while driving their stoopid 4x4's, flying to foreign holidays and chucking endless plastic packaging in their ever-filling dustbins. Grrr..$*&%**Grrrr.

[blackrose]

To toss your own point back at you, compared to what? I mean, I would lke to think I am a bit brighter than the average oyster, but then the oyster would like to think the same about Jade Goody.

 

Agreed! Ok, some of us have a highly developed intellect & sophisticated consciousness, others like Ms Goody retained the intellect of the Neanderthals. (And before anyone steams in to tell me that we did not descend from Neanderthals or that they really were quite intelligent, let's not go down that path).

 

All I'm saying is think about what you are doing now... discussing the relative merits of your species with a bunch of complete strangers you have never met, via computers, wireless networks, etc. That's a pretty amazing sophistication of intellect & technology.

Edited January 18, 2007 by blackrose

[honey ryder]

this is turning quite philosophical.

 

we dont know what other animals/creatures know because we are not yet intelligent enough to master their language to understand them properly.

 

its entirely possible that other species are equally as intelligent as us, but we do not know it.

 

if you define intelligence,

its the ability to modify your actions according to a given situation, to have empathy takes intelligence as you need to be able to consider another besides yourself and imagine how they feel, im not sure all creatures are capable of this but I know several species that can and do.

to recognise your own reflection also takes intelligence.

do we measure our intelligence by the fact we use natural resources for mainly pleasure purposes.

 

I dont think so.

 

and dont get me started on religion!

 

 

plus, if we were really intelligent, we wouldnt need all thsi jiggery pokery of electronic mechanical devices, we would simply share our thoughts via the ether... because we would have learned how to use the other 75% of our brains

[carlt]

this is turning quite philosophical.

 

we dont know what other animals/creatures know because we are not yet intelligent enough to master their language to understand them properly.

 

its entirely possible that other species are equally as intelligent as us, but we do not know it.

If they were the intelligent ones, surely they'd have found a way to tell us to stop screwing up their environment.

Edited January 18, 2007 by carlt

[Sir Nibble]

plus, if we were really intelligent, we wouldnt need all thsi jiggery pokery of electronic mechanical devices, we would simply share our thoughts via the ether... because we would have learned how to use the other 75% of our brains

Thank you Lobsang

[carlt]

Thank you Lobsang

Did someone mention making a fortune selling half baked ideas to impressionable hippies?

[Bones]

Did someone mention making a fortune selling half baked ideas to impressionable hippies?

[carlt]

Mind you my dog, Tommy's writing my posts by channeling his thoughts through my subconcious and into my fingers.

Edited January 18, 2007 by carlt

[blackrose]

its entirely possible that other species are equally as intelligent as us, but we do not know it.

 

When did you last read a great work of literature or listen to an uplifting classical symphony written by a whale, dolphin or chimp?

 

Come to think of it last time I went to the National Gallery, I didn't notice any great works of art painted by elephants... Perhaps I missed them!

Edited January 18, 2007 by blackrose

[carlt]

When did you last read a great work of literature or listen to an uplifting classical symphony written by a whale, dolphin or chimp?

 

Come to think of it last time I went to the National Gallery, I didn't notice any great works of art painted by elephants... Perhaps I missed them!

I think what we're getting at whilst pulling honey ryder's leg a bit (what's your real name? your boat name sounds like a 70s porn star), is that whatever the relative intellect of the different species are, we're the ones doing the damage and we're the ones who can stop it (unless it's too late or, you're right and it's not us at all, in which case,we're doomed).

[minerva]

carl: erm, i believe its from a Bond film....Honey Ryder....

 

Edited January 18, 2007 by minerva