moveable ballast

[honey ryder]

Our boat has a real noticeable list, especially now we have a fulll diesel tank.

I think it was originally ballasted to account for a washing machine, which I will be replacing very soon. but according to our last highly technical test of moving some friends around on the boat to mae it level, we will still need an extra 70 or so kilos to get it right.

 

can anyone suggest where I can get some decent moveable weights/ballast to level her off. it needs to be moveable because its effected by the diesel tank mainly I think.

 

would mud weights in a space in the engine room do the job? or do the weights need to be futher forward and spread out along one side?

 

we always used weights in GRP cruisers in the past to adjust for changing fluid levels ( pump out, water and diesel) but they were already present and we never had to buy any.

[John Orentas]

A narrowboat rarely needs movable ballast, if you trim the boat with the unsymmetrical tanks half full it should be near enough, even in your case 35Kg isn't going to make a lot of difference. The fuel tank is normally mounted on the centreline, your design is unusual. My boat has a large pump out tank to one side I can always tell when it is full by the way the boat sits.

 

For side to side trim, bow or stern it is just the same.

Edited January 11, 2007 by John Orentas

[ChrisPy]

I don't know if it helps, but when fitting out my widebeam (cruiser stern) I recognised that all the weight except the batteries was on the left side. After some calculations I lifted one width of boards (4ft) from the floor from the rear cabin and took out the concrete ballast on the left side. I placed the broken concrete slabs on the outside of the right hand engine bearer and then poured in concrete to make a nice standing platform next to the engine.

 

Not so easy to do on a narrowboat, but the concept may help.

[blackrose]

For side to side trim, bow or stern it is just the same.

 

I don't fully understand the physics involved, but on my old narrowboat I found when I was trying to counter the list from the weight of a big solid fuel stove installed on the port side in the middle of the boat, the same weight (bags of coal) on the starboard side of the stern deck did not work as well as when placed directly on the opposite side to the stove.

Edited January 11, 2007 by blackrose

[honey ryder]

A narrowboat rarely needs movable ballast, if you trim the boat with the unsymmetrical tanks half full it should be near enough, even in your case 35Kg isn't going to make a lot of difference. The fuel tank is normally mounted on the centreline, your design is unusual. My boat has a large pump out tank to one side I can always tell when it is full by the way the boat sits.

 

For side to side trim, bow or stern it is just the same.

 

Imm not quite following you there, un-symmetrical tanks?

 

Ive got a water tank in the bow, thats centred so no problem, but since I filled up with diesel the listing has become worse. ( it was listing a bit when we got it but I put that down to a missing washing machine)

The problem is that the layout of the boat isnt particularly well thought out as for balance.

all down the starboard side we have a bank of batteries in the engine room, a large villager stove, virtually all the cupboards in the bedroom are on that side too.

Theres a large tank in the engine room which I "think" is the diesel tank and that is also starboard. ( the filler screw cap is at the back which is confusing me... )

 

we have a cross double and the way the boat lists means we have to sleep on the bed the "wrong" way round to save us from a headache in the morning.

 

on the port side in the engine room we have loads of space available, ideal for some moveable ballast.

[magnetman]

Personally I can't deal with even a slight list on my boat, which can be caused by my twin diesel tanks having different amounts in them, or coal being depleted one side of the roof. I have several iron items (as mentioned in mudweights topic) and moving them about does help. Unless the boat actually twists I would think that it'd be the same in the engine room as on the front deck in terms of the amount of change to the way the boat sits.

 

My mum has a boat with a large pump out tank to one side which lists something wicked when it is pumped out. She has a 1cwt (50kg approx) iron crane counterweight in the front well deck which does make a bit of difference.

Moveable ballast, in my experience, is definitely a good idea, but then I can't deal with it tipping as I fall over inside.

 

56lb market stall weights are ideal as they have a handle but according to different theories they are easy or difficult to get hold of. I expect it's luck really but I've seen them occasionally at car boots £12 or so and had 3 out of the canal as well, with the magnet.

[DHutch]

Imm not quite following you there, un-symmetrical tanks?

I bealve John means tanks that are not on the centerline, rather than the actuall shape of the tank.

- If filling your deisal tank up makes it list to one side, it is obvously not place centrally within the boat. Unlike you bow tank.

 

You can indeed corrent the list by adding weight to the opposing side of the enigne bay.

- However, that would mean both additioal wieghts where are the back of the boat, which of cause will have an affect on the trim of the boat in the fore/aft direction. So it depends on what thats looking like. If the stern is already low, it may be more appropreat to add the wieght forther forwards, or turn the problem on its head, and take some wieght out from the side the deisal tanks on.

 

In terms of what yo use to add wieght. You could indeed used almost anything massive.

- Common things to use are conreate (fairly inert, and not affected my damp), short sections of old railway line or railway chairs. (which can go rusty if not painted, but dont absorbe water at all) Or lead shot/scraplead/homemade lead ingots, etc. You can also use 56lb wieghts, however, they can be pricey and are rather thought after.

 

We have a 1.5ton coal bunker, which is slightly off center to allow a corridor past it, and a result we have to constantly adjust the the trim, which is done with a number of lead ingots, which are moved from one side or the other within the space under the aftdeck, where the enigne would be, where it not in an engine room.

- However, as john says, this pro-actaive trimming is not usally common or nessaray on a normal narrowboat.

 

 

See also this thread:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...ic=6824&hl=

 

 

Daniel

[NB Alnwick]

Moveable ballast, in my experience, is definitely a good idea, but then I can't deal with it tipping as I fall over inside.

 

I just plead with SWMBO to move to the other side . . .

 

Very politely of course.

Edited January 11, 2007 by NB Alnwick

[honey ryder]

quite a mixed response really.

some say i shouldnt need it, others say yes they do use it.

according to the conversion charts, 70 kilos ( or one decent sized person) is roughly 3 or 4 of those 35lb weights.

 

Im going to keep an eye open for them on fleabay and wot not, but will wait until Ive fitted the washing mashine ( which goes port side) and might be a decent counter balance.

 

I suppose i could always use the mud weight as a temporary measure to address the balance, i dont need it at the current mooring.

[DHutch]

Yeah, although most are 56lb, which is 25kilos

 

 

Daniel

[Yamanx]

56lb market stall weights are ideal as they have a handle but according to different theories they are easy or difficult to get hold of. I expect it's luck really but I've seen them occasionally at car boots £12 or so and had 3 out of the canal as well, with the magnet.

 

You can lift a 56lb weight out the canal with a magnet? Blimin heck no wonder you're called Magnetman.

Edited January 11, 2007 by Yamanx

[magnetman]

[honey ryder]

oh, i forgot to mention im dysnumerate, The number I was trying to think of was 56 and somehow it became 35... its quite simple really or should I say im quite simple...

dont answer that!.

 

that means a couple of those market stall things would suffice. ( I think my mud weight is around that weight, squarish with a bar as a handle.

 

a sea searcher magnet would lift one of those weights nay worry i imagine.

( ive got some sea searcher magnets for sale actually)

[DHutch]

oh, i forgot to mention im dysnumerate, The number I was trying to think of was 56 and somehow it became 35...

No problem, im heavly dyslexic.

- As allan will vouch for, when i tried to meet him at bridge 68 rather than bridge 86 a few months ago!

 

 

 

Daniel

[John Orentas]

If anyone can find my previous boat Dynamic Inactivity (40ft Liverpool cruiser). There is over half a ton of 56lb weights on it hidden away.

Edited January 11, 2007 by John Orentas

[honey ryder]

No problem, im heavly dyslexic.

- As allan will vouch for, when i tried to meet him at bridge 68 rather than bridge 86 a few months ago!

Daniel

when I went to collect my dog when he was a puppy i forgot to take the piece of paper with address on it. I arrived at the road and was completely lost 21, 27, 72, 71, 41, 42, 14, 17, id visited the house before! luckily i remembered they had liverpool football club sticker inside the front door area, I had to go along the road looking through windows!

 

back to topic..

I saw quite a few of these weights on boats when i was looking around them originally when i was in the buying process. there must be a source for these things.

 

my dad molded his own from the old lead pipes he stripped from his house. but thats years ago now.

[mikevye]

In a recent canal magazine I saw an advert selling steel ballast, On enquiry the guy quoted £260/ton delivered of steel bar billets. They were a reasonably handy size for sticking down the sides of water tanks etc.

[DHutch]

back to topic..

I saw quite a few of these weights on boats when i was looking around them originally when i was in the buying process. there must be a source for these things.

 

my dad molded his own from the old lead pipes he stripped from his house. but thats years ago now.

Yes, there very good, all boats should have alteast one if your planning to do any river work for use as a mudweight.

- Again, if you havnt seen the mudweight thread yet, http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...ic=6824&hl=

 

In a recent canal magazine I saw an advert selling steel ballast, On enquiry the guy quoted £260/ton delivered of steel bar billets. They were a reasonably handy size for sticking down the sides of water tanks etc.

Yeah, however, as also loosely mentinoed on the mudweight thread, you can often buy lenghts of old rail for a very reasonable prices. Which is also far more ecofreindly.

 

 

Daniel

[Canal Shop Man]

As a temporary measure a cheap alternative is a 25litre drum of water (which weighs 25 kg) if you have space for it. I used 5 under my tug deck 2 years ago and haven't got round to replacing them!

Edited January 11, 2007 by Canal Shop Man

[Theo]

Just a thought, since noone has mentioned it. Any given weight will have the maximum effect if it is placed as far from the centre line as possible.

 

No a diversion to consider the list corrector for the narrowboater who has everything. the device is a wheeled weight on a track which runs across the boat. It has an electric motor driven screw which can move it across the boat at the flick of a switch. Better than that, the motor circuitry is connected to a clinometer arrangement which detects any list and moves the weight across automatically to correct it.

 

Don't forget that I suggested it first and want a cut of any profits!

 

Nick

[DHutch]

No a diversion to consider the list corrector for the narrowboater who has everything. the device is a wheeled weight on a track which runs across the boat...

 

Don't forget that I suggested it first and want a cut of any profits!

Dam dam dam!

- I was SOOOooo, close to mention that we have provision for eaxctly that.

- There are two sections between the scantlings in the center of our boat, under the galley floor, which have no concreate slabs in them

- These where designed for exactly that. A small trolley, with the afore mentioned lead ingots stacked on it, and pulley system to more it.

 

In the end, it came to puting the floor down time, and the floor got put down, without them. And tbh, its not a big deal.

- We just move the all lead across the full way when we coal up, and then move them accross on or two at a time when its convenent.

- We only get though 1/1.5 bunkers of coal a year, so its not a big job really, and so the trolleys have just sort of never been done.

 

But no, it was quite deffonatly though of in the late 80's by my grandad, if not before.

 

 

 

Daniel

[NB Alnwick]

Better still, you could have a model railway under the floor boards with weighted rolling stock and just shunt and marshal the trains to your hearts content. And, having it as a model of the London Underground - all out of site - would really confound the rivit-counting critics . . .

[Theo]

Better still, you could have a model railway under the floor boards with weighted rolling stock and just shunt and marshal the trains to your hearts content. And, having it as a model of the London Underground - all out of site - would really confound the rivit-counting critics . . .

 

 

I particulary like this idea because you can drive the trains fore and aft too to correct trim. The actual location of the trains and the setting of points could lead to problems but I am sure that a transparent floor or a proper electronic map would solve this one.

 

Relating to another of my threads, you could probable modify the train both to scrape the bottom and to spray the waxoyl as it goes around.

 

I must get about cutting spaces in the frames so that I can set it all up. I imagine that the boat is over engineered anyway so a bit of lost strength won't matter.

 

Nick