Using chrome pipes with push-fit plumbing

[blackrose]

I had a leak yesterday when one of the chrome pipes going to my shower came adrift from a Speedfit connector. It's my own fault - I had read that in the case of using chrome pipes with speedfit, the chrome should be abraded back, but I read this after originally installing the shower and hadn't got round to sorting it out.

 

Anyway I've abraded the end of the pipes now but couldn't get them right back to the copper. It's all reconnected now and fine, and I'm assuming it's ok as long as you get rid of the smooth chrome surface?

 

By the way, before anyone says it's going to look strange, the plastic pipe and connectors will all be hidden and the exposed chrome pipe leads to the shower.

Edited January 8, 2007 by blackrose

[DaveR]

Did you change the quick connector?

 

I fear that the old one used on the chrome finish may have opened out to a slightly larger diameter and may not seal properly onto the abraided pipe - which is now less diameter . . . . .

[blackrose]

Did you change the quick connector?

 

I fear that the old one used on the chrome finish may have opened out to a slightly larger diameter and may not seal properly onto the abraided pipe - which is now less diameter . . . . .

 

No I used the same connectors. They're sealing ok. Should I change them?

[David Schweizer]

No I used the same connectors. They're sealing ok. Should I change them?

I am not that familiar with Speedfit, but if they are like the Hep20 fittings, the gripper ring is made from sprung Stainless steel, so it should still be ok.

 

I would taKe the view that if it is not leaking, leave well alone, but remember to get a spare one when you are next in the Plumbers Merchants just in case. I always keep a few spare plumbing parts on board for use in an emergency because you can guarantee you will be miles away from anywhere if anything fails.

[chris w]

The seal in both Speedfit and Hep2o is formed by the O Ring not by the gripper ring. The gripper ring is to there to preclude the pipe's being pulled out of the joint.

 

Speedfit is different from Hep2O in that the gripper ring with Speedfit stays inside the connector when the joint is released. With Hep2O the gripper ring comes out with the pipe and cannot be removed from the pipe without damaging the ring. Also, Hep2O needs a special tool to release the joint which pushes the gripper ring's teeth flat so it may be released. This tool is effectively built-in on the Speedfit connectors as an additional push ring and is an integral part of the Speedfit connection and allows very easy release and remating. One just pushes down on the ring and it releases the gripper ring.

 

Chris

[bottle]

slightly

 

When fitting a 'shower pump' at home, it came with 'push fit' connections, on commissioning it was like Niagara Falls.

 

They did not have the 'o' rings fitted they were missing, contacted the manufacturers and asked for the 'o' rings, spoke to a nice young? lady that said they do not come with 'o' rings.

 

I did have an 'o' ring in my hand at the time (one of the connections had one), I was not a happy person at the time (soaking wet), she said that she would get an 'engineer' to contact me.

 

He went through the process of making the connection asking if I had pushed it completely to the end. He then tried to tell me they do not come with an 'o' ring.

 

To cut a long story short, I am sure you are fed up now as I was then, the flexible connections come as a unit with a connection for the pump one end and the pipe the other.

 

They were both looking at the parts catalogue, it only shows them as a complete unit.

 

I was eventually sent four complete new connections.

 

Moral always check the fittings before using them.

[DHutch]

I have used speed fit, but not hep20... (although the whole boat is hep20)

 

I would say that the main reason for removing the crome is to allow the the SSteel 'teeth' of the gripper ring to grip the copper.

- Crome is a LOT harder metel than brass/copper, as well as (i think) stainless steel. Which i think in why your having trouble.

 

I would defonatly try and get down to copper, and then having put the pipe into the conector, give it a good tug to test it, and get the teeth stuck in.

 

- The conectors proberbly fine, but dont count on it. Is this joint over the bath/showertray?

 

 

Daniel

[ChrisPy]

la da de dada ......

 

 

 

,......................... which is why I use conventional copper yorkshire fittings and occasional compression unions.

 

PS: I don't mind who calls me a Luddite.

[blackrose]

- The conectors proberbly fine, but dont count on it. Is this joint over the bath/showertray?

Daniel

 

No the joint is below the ceiling at the top of the bathroom wall! I had to take it up there to get it over the shower cubicle. I suppose I could have taken the plastic pipe over the shower itself but I only wanted chrome pipes to be exposed. I've got 15mm speedfit joints elsewhere (plastic pipe to plastic pipe) and they're not over any trays.

 

 

la da de dada ......

,......................... which is why I use conventional copper yorkshire fittings and occasional compression unions.

 

PS: I don't mind who calls me a Luddite.

 

Not sure what song that is you're singing? Anyway, I used copper pipe, yorkshire & compression fittings for my backboiler system as I can add antifreeze to that, but I don't much like showering in the blue stuff and I found the tea tastes terrible! I could put a compression fitting on the joint in question I suppose - if it goes again I will.

 

Edited:

 

In fact I've just heard back from Speedfit who say that as Daniel said, the chrome must be completely removed to allow the fitting to grip the copper. They suggested putting the pipe in variable speed drill and running it against some abrasive (sounds like a daft idea to me!) Anyway, my drill only has a 13mm chuck and this would mean dismantling the installation, so I shall go with Chris' idea and use a couple of compression fittings.

Edited January 8, 2007 by blackrose

[Guest]

la da de dada ......

,......................... which is why I use conventional copper yorkshire fittings and occasional compression unions.

 

PS: I don't mind who calls me a Luddite.

Must admit I used copper from the engine to the calorifier etc. Think I might be tempted to go all copper another time. Most of my plastic fittings (from a famous supplier of "screws and fixings") leaked as they were crap. I replaced them all to be safe.

[blackrose]

Must admit I used copper from the engine to the calorifier etc. Think I might be tempted to go all copper another time. Most of my plastic fittings (from a famous supplier of "screws and fixings") leaked as they were crap. I replaced them all to be safe.

 

What brand was that? I think Hep & Speedfit are both pretty good. Aren't you prone to burst pipes in winter if you use copper?

 

My particular problem wasn't due to faulty plastic fittings, but my own fault in not doing the job properly in the first place.

Edited January 8, 2007 by blackrose

[Guest]

What brand was that? I think Hep & Speedfit are both pretty good. Aren't you prone to burst pipes in winter if you use copper?

 

My particular problem wasn't due to faulty plastic fittings, but my own fault in not doing the job properly in the first place.

Not going to call them in public but "screw and fix" might be a clue! True most people seem to be Ok with plastic, and mine has been OK since I got some fittings that actually sealed (hep). Not sure about the freezing thing though, I have had neither copper nor plastic burst due to frost.

[blackrose]

Not going to call them in public but "screw and fix" might be a clue!

 

Yes I got that bit but I haven't bought much from them and didn't realise they had their own brand.

[David Schweizer]

la da de dada ......

,......................... which is why I use conventional copper yorkshire fittings and occasional compression unions.

 

PS: I don't mind who calls me a Luddite.

I wouldn't dream of it Chris, and in my house I also use copper fittings, except that I am too mean to pay for Yorkshires and just use plain end feed fittings. But on the boat I prefer Hep20 because of it's ease of use in very restricted (and often combustable) locations, and the ease with which the plumbing can be retrospectively altered, when the other half decides that another tap/appliance etc is needed.

[elessina]

I had a leak yesterday when one of the chrome pipes going to my shower came adrift from a Speedfit connector. It's my own fault - I had read that in the case of using chrome pipes with speedfit, the chrome should be abraded back, but I read this after originally installing the shower and hadn't got round to sorting it out.

Oh, that’s worrying….. I have done the same thing, but I must have 12 chrome pipe to speedfit connections. (where the pipe is visible from the radiators to where it is hidden). No sign of any leaks (yet!!). I say Speedfit, they are Screwfix, but sure they are the same. I will look out for leaks, but definitely no sign yet after nearly a year…….. I never read that about abrading back…… but then Screwfix do not give any information with their bulk packs!!!.

 

Ian

Elessina

[blackrose]

Oh, that’s worrying….. I have done the same thing, but I must have 12 chrome pipe to speedfit connections. (where the pipe is visible from the radiators to where it is hidden). No sign of any leaks (yet!!). I say Speedfit, they are Screwfix, but sure they are the same. I will look out for leaks, but definitely no sign yet after nearly a year…….. I never read that about abrading back…… but then Screwfix do not give any information with their bulk packs!!!.

 

Ian

Elessina

 

I'd change them for compression fittings if I were you. According to Speedfit (John Guest http://www.speedfit.co.uk/), the chrome is too hard for the fitting to grip. Either take the chrome right back to the copper and use the same fittings (and JG said you dont need new fittings), or give the ends of the pipe a quick abrade to give the olives a chance to bite and use compression fittings.

Edited January 11, 2007 by blackrose

[old what]

"I would say that the main reason for removing the crome is to allow the the SSteel 'teeth' of the gripper ring to grip the copper.

- Crome is a LOT harder metel than brass/copper, as well as (i think) stainless steel. Which i think in why your having trouble."

That's interesting I am just about to connect radiators via chrome pie to speed fit fittings, and I certainly didn't have a clue about abrading back the chrome (though it makes sense). So may I take this opportunity of thanking you; you've probably saved me hours of mopping up.

 

[chris w]

I spoke to Liverpool Boats this morning (I'm awaiting my boat from them) and their production manager assured me that they are aware of the chrome issue with Hep2O etc fittings and that they do indeed abrade the chrome back before fitting.

 

The fact that they appear to have missed this process on Blackrose is an error which the production manager told me they would rectify gratis even though the boat is formally out of warranty.

 

Chris

Edited January 15, 2007 by chris w

[blackrose]

I spoke to Liverpool Boats this morning (I'm awaiting my boat from them) and their production manager assured me that they are aware of the chrome issue with Hep2O etc fittings and that they do indeed abrade the chrome back before fitting.

 

The fact that they appear to have missed this process on Blackrose is an error which the production manager told me they would rectify gratis even though the boat is formally out of warranty.

 

Chris

 

Thanks for sorting that out for me Chris!

 

I don't know for sure that they didn't do it on mine, but since I couldn't see any signs of abrasion on the chrome above the fitting I just assumed it hadn't been done. Perhaps I'm being unfair but for some reason I always assume worst case scenario with LB!

 

I'll have to have a closer inspection this evening.

[elessina]

I'd change them for compression fittings if I were you.

Yes. I will do. In the mean time I checked and no leaks, and they look to be held firmly in place. Looking at the Speedfit web site fittings, the Scewfix ones look exactly the same (they are push fit, then turned to lock).

Ian

[chris w]

Yes. I will do. In the mean time I checked and no leaks, and they look to be held firmly in place. Looking at the Speedfit web site fittings, the Scewfix ones look exactly the same (they are push fit, then turned to lock).

Ian

The Screwfix ones are indeed SpeedFit - they state it on their website and in their catalogue.

 

Chris

[elessina]

The Screwfix ones are indeed SpeedFit - they state it on their website and in their catalogue.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

 

I thought they were. From memory the fittings from Screwfix arrive in an unmarked clear bag with no instructions, not that you need any instructions to use them, they are that simple…. Except if using chrome pipe!!.

 

Ian