Floating Singer Songwriter

[FORTUNATA]

Never mentioned this before but some months ago someone gave me a synth/keyboard that they'd been unable to sell on EBay. I was reluctant to take it onboard as I feared I could get bogged down with learning an instrument. Several months later here I am living on a boat often doing 4 or 5 hours practice and still determined to release an album.
When I started to play, I was doing a lot of multi-track recording which means it's fairly easy to sound good. You just play something on one channel and then play over that on top. Start with bass, for example, add drums, add chords and so on.
Sometime in November I started learning actual piano. That is, using both hands at the same time and co-ordinating. Initially that is tricky as you have to completely move each set of fingers independently but it's doable with practice. I found it helpful to listen to other people on YouTube and was surprised to find quite a lot of talent still hidden away in peoples' homes.
The biggest leap so far has been the frightening transition to singing. I've always both hated and feared singing as I consider I have a crap voice and that to try and work a miracle is asking too much. However, I tried, admitted defeat but then gave it another go. I started discovering that, in actual fact, we can all sing. Very few of the people you see on X-Factor simply sounded that good from the outset. Susan Boyle, for example, had had serious vocal tuition and had been in a church choir. Granted she has a genetically gifted voice few of us could hope to match but, nevertheless, anyone can sing with practice and some training.
So, very late nights on my boat will involve me quietly playing and singing and then playing it all back on my mobile phone. Sometimes I cringe and sometimes I think it's getting better. Naturally I had to get some feedback so I asked a few girls what they though and fortunately they didn't knock my efforts too much. However, my mother thinks I sound crap. Then again she thinks Mick Jagger is crap as well.
Must confess, though, I feel a bit alone in this hobby. I did once meet a serious floating guitarist who had a nice boat and we struck up a conversation but the majority of people don't seem to bother with music, less so singing.

[Phil Ambrose]

Good on you, you're not alone, here on our marina we have a group of 3 all guitar players who write their own stuff and now do some gigs also a talented singer/writer again guitar who has an EP out,gigs and has been on local radio.

We had a big barbie in august where there was a good session by these people and the Riverside Island Jam Band plus a debut set by a old school rocker type complete with his bottle of JD

Phil

[FORTUNATA]

Glad to hear it. I actually use guitar technique on my synth as I can set it to acoustic or steel guitar. Then I blend in maybe a "warm tone" to the guitar sound and add lots of reverb. So, I can do a kind of picking background.
I've written maybe 5 or so songs but only 3 of them complete with lyrics. I'm also excited about a cover I'm doing of a song written in 1969 by a band called The FlowerPot Men. I googled the song and it's kind of obscure so no lyrics available and I had to fish them out by ear.
My feeling is that after loads of takes and retakes, my singing on the track sounds to me to be not too bad. I basically searched for everything I could find online about how to develop a singing voice and only recently discovered a simple change of key can help.
Normally I close the windows of my boat when practising any singing in case someone takes the p***

Good on you, you're not alone, here on our marina we have a group of 3 all guitar players who write their own stuff and now do some gigs also a talented singer/writer again guitar who has an EP out,gigs and has been on local radio.
We had a big barbie in august where there was a good session by these people and the Riverside Island Jam Band plus a debut set by a old school rocker type complete with his bottle of JD
Phil

[Athy]

Wondered where you'd been, we have not heard much from you, now I know why - your hands have been too busy on musical keyboards for you to spend time on computer keyboards.

 

Good on you, persevere!

[FORTUNATA]

Wondered where you'd been, we have not heard much from you, now I know why - your hands have been too busy on musical keyboards for you to spend time on computer keyboards.

 

Good on you, persevere!

Yes, you're right. It's been serious practice but I still work on my boat and enjoy that side of things. I work as well when I get called in by the agency so use the offdays to practise.

[paulstoke1975]

you sound like me, i sit down and record stuff on my iphone all the time, i get too about five recordings then start deleting so there's room for more , some you remember for ever and some of it you'll lose for good ,

 

its all practise and good for relaxing,

 

I've started to try and find a song i don't like or one's with female vocal's and see if i can adapt it to my own voice./style.

dont get me wrong i cant sing for shit but it keeps me interested and its all eduction

[keble]

Good for you! I am learning guitar, also have a keyboard, also can't sing.

Around here there's quite a strong group of boaters who play and sing.

They'll probably be in evidence at the Saul festival in August - come and join in!

 

Edited to add link to Saul event: http://www.cotswoldcanals.com/pages/posts/august-bank-holiday-boating-event-at-saul-630.php

Edited April 24, 2014 by keble

[FORTUNATA]

you sound like me, i sit down and record stuff on my iphone all the time, i get too about five recordings then start deleting so there's room for more , some you remember for ever and some of it you'll lose for good ,

 

its all practise and good for relaxing,

 

I've started to try and find a song i don't like or one's with female vocal's and see if i can adapt it to my own voice./style.

dont get me wrong i cant sing for shit but it keeps me interested and its all eduction

This is exactly what I do. On my boat I tape my mobile phone to the synth and then start to play and sing. If it sounds bad I delete and try again. To be honest I've really gone into all of this seriously. I've studied everything I can find on song writing. I think I found out in time that writing songs isn't so mystical and difficult as I once imagined. For example, as you know the simplest way to make a song is to "lift" the chords from a song you like. It's legal to do that if it's only chords This really works and John Lennon did it a lot. Did you know that the song Woman is really another version of Girl from Rubber Soul?

When I started I used to just make up some kind of a riff. Some people call them "hooks", Maybe some jazzy piano chords played in sequence and then recorded as a backing track. Then I'd add a bit of bass. Eventually I'd just improvise over it till hopefully a song emerged. At this moment in time I've expanded a lot. As I said, I started playing piano style, using both hands so far less layering and multi-track. I also learned that it's good to do covers of other songs as it is good for vocal practice and it makes you think about how a good song is put together. MY covers included Here There And Everywhere, Waterfalls, Hey Jude, Mad World, What's In A Kiss (Gilbert O Sullivan).

As it stands I now have a few songs of my own I feel are pretty good. Two are slow ballads with lyrics that took some time to get down. Another is a fast disco track with simple lyrics. I can't wait to make some decent recordings but my main fear is my singing. I've busted my ass trying to get my singing to sound O.K. but get insecure about it. Sometimes I feel I'm hopeless at singing and would make a total fool of myself but logic tells me that even if it's early days I've improved a lot.

[FORTUNATA]

Good for you! I am learning guitar, also have a keyboard, also can't sing.

Around here there's quite a strong group of boaters who play and sing.

They'll probably be in evidence at the Saul festival in August - come and join in!

 

Edited to add link to Saul event: http://www.cotswoldcanals.com/pages/posts/august-bank-holiday-boating-event-at-saul-630.php

I think the truth is you can sing. I've gone into this in great depth. Anatomical studies of singers reveal no physical difference in vocal chords. True, some people do have richer, more melodic voices, but this is where choosing your material and your range are crucial. I made a list of singers who were considered to have "somehow gotten away with being not brilliant singers". Bob Dylan comes top of the list (described by Bowie as a voice like glue and sandpaper). What I found is that in order to make the best of your voice the following tips apply:

(1) Stay in your range and don't be afraid to change the key of song to suit your voice.

(2) Do vocal exercises the same way as you jog to get fitter.

(3) Record yourself and play it back. Ask other people how they feel you sound.

(4) Develop a unique approach and choose the songs you feel suit your own voice. Is it nasal and expressive or soft and melodic?

(5) Remember the old story about the King and his invisible suit. Convinced the world around him he wasn't naked at all.

(6) Finally I suppose we can always sing with others so our own voice is enhanced by those who sing with you.

 

p.s amd currently doing covers of some songs by this little known group The Californians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6nsv2vJxBs

 

Edited April 25, 2014 by FORTUNATA

[Bob Blues]

I have a B3 Hammond and Leslie on my NB along with a 24 Track studio along with Studio monitors and a load of ancillary gear. I posted a pic on here when I first set it up http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=4099 a few years ago. Ive sold the rack of 3 in the background and changed the XK3 to a B3 but everything else is good.

 

I found that I can get 5 hrs of production work off my batteries and the peace of being on the cut helps with the thought process.

 

I also do 3 radio shows a week from the boat specializing in Blues. If you have something Blusey then send me a PM and I'll get it sent over. I get about 20k downloads a week from all over the world.

 

I also have worked on a few albums, which are sent over and then I import them into the studio record my Hammond then send it back Works great.

 

Have fun.

 

If you are in Rickmansworth for the Canal Festival on 16-18 may. I'll be out with the Millionairs (ska) at the closing event on the Sunday.

 

Bob

[FORTUNATA]

I have a B3 Hammond and Leslie on my NB along with a 24 Track studio along with Studio monitors and a load of ancillary gear. I posted a pic on here when I first set it up http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?app=galleryℑ=4099 a few years ago. Ive sold the rack of 3 in the background and changed the XK3 to a B3 but everything else is good.

 

I found that I can get 5 hrs of production work off my batteries and the peace of being on the cut helps with the thought process.

 

I also do 3 radio shows a week from the boat specializing in Blues. If you have something Blusey then send me a PM and I'll get it sent over. I get about 20k downloads a week from all over the world.

 

I also have worked on a few albums, which are sent over and then I import them into the studio record my Hammond then send it back Works great.

 

Have fun.

 

If you are in Rickmansworth for the Canal Festival on 16-18 may. I'll be out with the Millionairs (ska) at the closing event on the Sunday.

 

Bob

Yeah, I like B3's with their tone-wheels. Some weeks back I was looking at a drawbar organ going for 60 quid and it had loads of tabs and rhythms but would be just too big for my boat. I actually only have a CTK Casio which a lot of people criticized for being tinny while others have compared it to almost as good as a Korg. I think actually the Casio isn't a bad keyboard at all. It offers 6 track recording and plenty of synthesiser sounds.

I don't do any blues. At the moment I try and write a lot of ballads because I think these are great for developing lyrics and harmony. I figure if you can write a good ballad, you're on your way. I guess the secret is not to overdo it, though, as people always like something that moves fast with a beat so sometimes I try and do that as well.

Lately I have sort of gone back to basics with songwriting. I think I just realised that the improvements I made instrumentally could be endangering my creativity. I find that as I learned to play actual piano style, work on finger technique and more complex arpeggio and melody lines, the simplicity of good sound was being lost. So now, if my plan is to write a song, I force myself to forget about how I play or what I do technically and just try and make what I write sound good.

I still agonise over my singing. Played myself back last night and thought it was a great song but bloody awful singing. Visions of Simon Cowell and Danni Minough pressing buzzers at me on XFactor soon as my mouth opens. Turns out Jimmy Hendrix and Eric Clapton also agonised over their singing voices. I checked out Clapton and thought he sounded fine and Jimmy was O.K. when he did rock.

My line is if I can crack my singing, I'm sure I can put out some good songs online.

[Neil2]

May I suggest something radical, though I'm only repeating what Sir Paul has said many times, do it for real.

 

Paul McCartney was, by all accounts, a pretty awful singer when he started out. I've met people who saw the Beatles in the very early days and most of them said John Lennon had a "natural" voice but not Paul. But it's amazing what playing live night after night can do, and there is nothing boosts your confidence more than an appreciative audience.

 

This is all very well but I realise finding opportunities to play live is getting more and more difficult and the days when you learned three chords and played your first gig are well and truly in the past. But you've already had an invitation on this thread so it can be done.

 

I've played what you might call semi professionally, (with the emphasis on the "semi"), and that all came about by sticking an advert in the local music shop asking for any like minded aspiring musicians to get in touch. I had done the usual thing of mucking about with a couple of mates who played a bit, but I felt I wanted to do something real before it was too late. The two people I did hook up with had never done anything in front of an audience, which I had, but both turned out to be much better performers than I was, and far better singers.

 

FWIW I sound dreadful if I try and record something at home, but I've got recordings of us live and I don't sound half bad... The main thing I think is to play to your strengths. What I mean is there are very few Elvis Presleys or Rod Stewarts, who can sound truly convincing in almost any genre. Most of us have a voice that suits a particular style, be it rock and roll, country, pop, etc.

 

Of course if you are a great songwriter you can get away with anything, as Dylan did, or even don't bother singing properly, like John Lee Hooker, or even Hendrix.

 

One way of improving is to pick someone you want to sound like (be realistic, eg not George Michael) and try to imitate them. This has worked for a lot of well known singers - including Sir Paul.

 

[Taslim]

Fortunata.

 

You have it right about the vocal exercise to warm up (and a serious physical warm up ) before performance but we take the vocals warm up well out of our 'natural range' and always end up doing a 'robust' version of of on Ilcley Moor b'art 'tat. The kids and I then go on to deliver R&B and Rock.

 

I have a crap voice but was choir trained as a kid & learned some tricks but these days don't give a stuff. As 1970's musical joker said "I have suffered for my art. Now it's your turn."

 

 

Keep on keeping on but don't over analise, (I remember some of your earlier posts on other topics ) We think of our selfs as entertainers and if the people get a laugh 'cause we foul up that's OK. If they like our music RESULT! Just get out there and do it.

 

We still get re-bookings!

[Bob Blues]

One thing I would say is if you havn't done areay use a compressor on your vocals even when singing live. Can help.

Bob

My line is if I can crack my singing, I'm sure I can put out some good songs online.

Use soundcloud

[Neil2]

One thing I would say is if you havn't done areay use a compressor on your vocals even when singing live. Can help.

Bob

Use soundcloud

That's just reminded me we used to use something called an ART preamp which at the time a lot of folks were using as a relatively cheap way of spicing up their vocals and it does make a difference.

[Bob Blues]

That's just reminded me we used to use something called an ART preamp which at the time a lot of folks were using as a relatively cheap way of spicing up their vocals and it does make a difference.

A decent pre-amp is very costly and can change the warmth of a vocal especially if they are valve driven and many come with channel strips allowing various EQs to be added. There again same as getting a great mike, you can spend £5K on a bottle mike or £100 for a Rode Nt1 (dam fine mike). Mike choice is critical and I know many vocalists that insist on one type of mike when recording. If you are recording on your boat you may need to think about bleed through from other noise but the water tends to dampen out any unwanted echo.

I like recording on the boat, but miking up the Leslie is a bit of a pain especially in the tight space but it all works well.

Just as I was getting to the end of a lengthy part of an overdub with the Hammond the dog kicked off and I had to start all over again.

 

Bob

[Neil2]

A decent pre-amp is very costly and can change the warmth of a vocal especially if they are valve driven and many come with channel strips allowing various EQs to be added. There again same as getting a great mike, you can spend £5K on a bottle mike or £100 for a Rode Nt1 (dam fine mike). Mike choice is critical and I know many vocalists that insist on one type of mike when recording. If you are recording on your boat you may need to think about bleed through from other noise but the water tends to dampen out any unwanted echo.

I like recording on the boat, but miking up the Leslie is a bit of a pain especially in the tight space but it all works well.

Just as I was getting to the end of a lengthy part of an overdub with the Hammond the dog kicked off and I had to start all over again.

 

Bob

The ART uses the ubiquitous 12AX7 preamp valve, and it has compression as well IIRC, used to be just under a hundred quid but that is a good few years ago.

 

I completely agree about the mike - we were lucky to have the occasional use of a really high quality condenser mic for recording and it was so much better than the "live" Shure mics we had used up to that point.

[FORTUNATA]

Fortunata.

 

You have it right about the vocal exercise to warm up (and a serious physical warm up ) before performance but we take the vocals warm up well out of our 'natural range' and always end up doing a 'robust' version of of on Ilcley Moor b'art 'tat. The kids and I then go on to deliver R&B and Rock.

 

I have a crap voice but was choir trained as a kid & learned some tricks but these days don't give a stuff. As 1970's musical joker said "I have suffered for my art. Now it's your turn."

 

 

Keep on keeping on but don't over analise, (I remember some of your earlier posts on other topics ) We think of our selfs as entertainers and if the people get a laugh 'cause we foul up that's OK. If they like our music RESULT! Just get out there and do it.

 

We still get re-bookings!

I sometimes get a bit disheartened and singing is part of it. Another part of it is, I figure my taste in music is very different to the norm and it follows that the material I write is also going to influenced by my own taste. At the moment I am crazy about the Californians but did you know that as good as they were, there is no C.D. for this band? All we have is vinyl because the market for such bands is tiny. I have actually recorded my own version of Cooks Of Cake And Kindness which was the A side of Mandy in 1968. I have bumped into one or two people online who flipped out over that original track. I suppose those people would be kind of interested in my version of it which I slowed down a lot but I doubt it will make me platinum sales.

Actually here are the two tracks for those interested. For Mandy, I found an actual video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msm4CvzgJEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHIDUsEw5hw

 

 

 

 

[FORTUNATA]

A decent pre-amp is very costly and can change the warmth of a vocal especially if they are valve driven and many come with channel strips allowing various EQs to be added. There again same as getting a great mike, you can spend £5K on a bottle mike or £100 for a Rode Nt1 (dam fine mike). Mike choice is critical and I know many vocalists that insist on one type of mike when recording. If you are recording on your boat you may need to think about bleed through from other noise but the water tends to dampen out any unwanted echo.

I like recording on the boat, but miking up the Leslie is a bit of a pain especially in the tight space but it all works well.

Just as I was getting to the end of a lengthy part of an overdub with the Hammond the dog kicked off and I had to start all over again.

 

Bob

I had a funny thing happen. I dug up a really good riff I made. It's one of those hard guitar riffs like The Stones Last TIme or Beatles Day Tripper. What I did was play it first just on bass and then overdubbed a hard rock fuzz guitar. This gave it a depth and an aggressive in your face banging sound. I then added a chord sequence and then used the old Rolling Stones approach. That is, just sing to the backing. That's how The Stones did it in their day. Keith would make a good riff and Mick Jagger just strutted about and sang to the thing and then it would just develop. As I'm not in a band, I have to do both roles so first make the riff. And then, horror of horrors, sing with a recorder. Well, this was a rocky riff so I started to sing and felt it must be really really bad. It was hard going and I cringed on pressing playback. However, to my surprise, I didn't sound too bad that time around. Maybe the key was about right for me, but I figure I'll be able to do the track without sounding that bad.

It's funny though as nobody knows what goes in my boat in the early hours. I've got the mobile taped to the synth and doing my level best to project some zeal into the vocal part.

Last night I took a break to just do piano. This is now another new thing as when I started piano I was doing arpeggio chords left hand and melody right. Now, I'm doing the traditional left hand bass notes and right hand chords and then melody is vocal. So, I was struggling to get my left hand to do a smooth bass line while sequencing chords in time with the right. You have to kind of split your brain to multi-task.

P.S. First track I ever sung was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N3N1MlvVc4

 

 

[FORTUNATA]

A decent pre-amp is very costly and can change the warmth of a vocal especially if they are valve driven and many come with channel strips allowing various EQs to be added. There again same as getting a great mike, you can spend £5K on a bottle mike or £100 for a Rode Nt1 (dam fine mike). Mike choice is critical and I know many vocalists that insist on one type of mike when recording. If you are recording on your boat you may need to think about bleed through from other noise but the water tends to dampen out any unwanted echo.

I like recording on the boat, but miking up the Leslie is a bit of a pain especially in the tight space but it all works well.

Just as I was getting to the end of a lengthy part of an overdub with the Hammond the dog kicked off and I had to start all over again.

 

Bob

I suppose my strategy is first try and sing with no mic so that maybe when I do use a mic and even voice processing through software, I will hopefully sound better. I try to make it clear to those who know me that my intention isn't really to be a good singer per se but I just want to sing my own songs without looking an idiot (or sounding like one).

Cannot begin to describe how hung up I get on it. Recently I heard this story about the day Jimmy Hendrix was sharing a flat with Ron Wood and frequently moaned and groaned about his singing and it's a fact Hendrix was really bothered about how he sounded. To the point he would try to cover his voice up with the guitar playing. When I sing I sometimes get this awful feeling the audience might be uncomfortable as to how to remain polite.

Sometimes you gotta laugh, though. I heard this story of a guy who spent hours rehearsing a vocal performance on guitar. He was on stage singing to the audience when he heard a girl say to her friend, "I wish this guy would disappear!" That psyched him out totally and he just went through the motions till he could get off stage. Fortunately he recovered to sing another day.

[Neil2]

Sometimes you gotta laugh, though. I heard this story of a guy who spent hours rehearsing a vocal performance on guitar. He was on stage singing to the audience when he heard a girl say to her friend, "I wish this guy would disappear!" That psyched him out totally and he just went through the motions till he could get off stage. Fortunately he recovered to sing another day.

My strategy was to be so loud you couldn't possibly hear any comments from the audience. There is safety in volume.

[carlt]

My strategy was to be so loud you couldn't possibly hear any comments from the audience. There is safety in volume.

Back in my yoof a girlfriend once asked me why I was the lead singer in my band when I couldn't sing and I just spoke or shouted the words.

 

The answer was that I was the only member of the band who could "sing" and play his instrument at the same time.

 

We rarely had to buy a drink and always got paid at the end of the gig so I must have been doing something right.

[Neil2]

Back in my yoof a girlfriend once asked me why I was the lead singer in my band when I couldn't sing and I just spoke or shouted the words.

 

The answer was that I was the only member of the band who could "sing" and play his instrument at the same time.

 

We rarely had to buy a drink and always got paid at the end of the gig so I must have been doing something right.

Only people of a certain age will remember when live albums were rare, and usually dreadful. This was more often than not because the performance was pretty dreadful, but studio technology had not advanced to the degree that "live" performances could be tweaked to sound acceptable, as they are these days. I have actually been to gigs that I thought at the time were great, only to hear the same performance played back as a live recording and wonder if it was the same concert.

 

The volume that rock bands play at masks all sorts of deficiencies and it creates a degree of audience excitement that allows for a high degree of inaccuracy in singing and playing. That's why you have to record yourself and hear things in the cold light of day, as most bands do today. The Rolling Stones were probably the first band to do this, and what do they call them?

[carlt]

I have actually been to gigs that I thought at the time were great, only to hear the same performance played back as a live recording and wonder if it was the same concert.

Me too but I've always attributed that to the mind altering substances consumed.

[FORTUNATA]

Only people of a certain age will remember when live albums were rare, and usually dreadful. This was more often than not because the performance was pretty dreadful, but studio technology had not advanced to the degree that "live" performances could be tweaked to sound acceptable, as they are these days. I have actually been to gigs that I thought at the time were great, only to hear the same performance played back as a live recording and wonder if it was the same concert.

 

The volume that rock bands play at masks all sorts of deficiencies and it creates a degree of audience excitement that allows for a high degree of inaccuracy in singing and playing. That's why you have to record yourself and hear things in the cold light of day, as most bands do today. The Rolling Stones were probably the first band to do this, and what do they call them?

Yeah, I figure I'll post you an old clip of The Rolling Stones on Top Of The Pops to get an idea of how live sounded. Personally, since I started doing all this stuff, making riffs and gradually creating tracks of my own, I concluded The Stones were onto a damned good thing at the right time and right place. They were very talented but I also think the fact was they had a good thing going all to themselves as most other working class guys were doing everyday jobs. I mean this is a great track but the riff makes the song. Mick was a great mover and had a lot of stage personality so it didn't take him long to find a way to sing to this and the band was on its way to fame.However, Bill Wyman stated if The Stones were starting out again today he says they'd not have gotten past XFactor. He claims bands today that are "different" don't get air time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaxH--dmQBs