Cost of having a stove fitted?

[Starcoaster]

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure on what sort of money it costs to remove and replace a solid fuel stove? (Not including the cost of the stove itself). Does a new stove automatically mean you need a new flue pipe too, and is it a one day job or a big procedure?

 

Also, what sort of people/places do it? Boatyards I presume obviously, but is it the sort of thing you can hire a general boating odd job man to do, assuming the new stove is going onto the spot that the old stove was in?

[Nightwatch]

Good question. We have thought more than once, that our fire is in the wrong place.

 

I await some answers to your question.

 

Martyn

[Grace and Favour]

Matty40's?

[Starcoaster]

The location of the stove is fine, it's just that the stove is both stupid, and trying to kill me. Assuming that if fails to do so before the end of this "winter," I would like to see if it would be viable to get it replaced next winter, or if it's just going to prove too costly.

 

I'm after a ballpark figure and an idea of what kind of skill/profession is needed to do it, rather than suggestions of specific people, ta!

Edited March 7, 2014 by Starcoaster

[alan_fincher]

No idea about cost, but flue sizes, (i.e. diameters) differ, as do height of stoves, so I think your starting assumption has to be that the flue that worked for one will probably not be able to be used as it stands on another. (Of course it may be possible to adapt, rather than replace it, depending on circumstance).

 

As I believe you have a Heron, (assuming it is your boat we are discussing), that is a 4" flue size, I think, so something needing a 5" flue (for example) might need a new roof collar as well as having to make the roof hole larger, and replace the external chimney.

 

If you say what it is proposed to replace with what, then someone may have done it, and know the level of complexity involved.

 

Don't replace a fabricated seel stove with a cast iron one - you may well end up regretting that decision IMO.

[Starcoaster]

I have a Heron, the flue is 4" I think- how do I get diameter from circumference?! There is no collar, the bit sticking out of the roof is a botch job for which I had a custom made chimney done at the start of the winter. I do not have a sstove in mind to replace it with, but it's going to be small (5kw) and cheap if I get it done at all- my main priority other than that it is safer than this one is that the sodarsing baffle plate is removable! I will stick to looking at ones with a 4" flue opening if that would simplify things.

 

**Edit, just Googled it, yes it is 4".

 

PPS: Is the Heron steel- I thought it was iron? What is wrong with an iron stove?

Edited March 7, 2014 by Starcoaster

[bizzard]

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure on what sort of money it costs to remove and replace a solid fuel stove? (Not including the cost of the stove itself). Does a new stove automatically mean you need a new flue pipe too, and is it a one day job or a big procedure?

 

Also, what sort of people/places do it? Boatyards I presume obviously, but is it the sort of thing you can hire a general boating odd job man to do, assuming the new stove is going onto the spot that the old stove was in?

Ahoy Star. You would need to get a stove that is at least as tall as your existing one, if lower your flue pipe might be too short. Taller and a bit of fluepipe can be cut off. Flue pipes usually start to corrode and rust away at the top where they run cooler, so remove your chimney and you should see the top of it poking through the collar to see if it looks ragged and eaten away with rust. If the new stove uses the same diameter flue pipe as your existing one often 4'' O/S Dia it should be quite a quick swop over using of course new collar to flue fire proof rope and sealants and fixing down screws or whatever. 2 or three hours work I'd say. So probably say £120 plus or so for a boat yard to do it or about half that for a good odd job man for cash.

 

A 4'' OD flue pipe needs a 5'' internal bore collar and a 5'' OD flue pipe needs a 6'' internal bore collar.

Edited March 7, 2014 by bizzard

[Alan de Enfield]

We provided the tiles for the 'walls', the stove, the hearth, the flue and the roof-collar.

 

The 'fireplace was already 'built' (fire board offset from the walls) with the exception of tiling, the fitter, drilled / cut the hole in the roof, tiled the fireplace (Floor, sides and back), fitted the stove and screwed it down to the floor slab, fitted the roof-collar, fitted the flue and cemented the joints, Made good the roof lining, added trim around the tiles and varnished then cleaned up.

Charged £100

 

General 'boat odd-job' man (welder, engines, electricals, painting etc)

 

To get diameter from circumference divide circumference by 'pie' (3.142)

 

Edit to add picture

 

Edited March 7, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[Grace and Favour]

 

 

I'm after a ballpark figure and an idea of what kind of skill/profession is needed to do it, rather than suggestions of specific people, ta!

OK - - Matty40's may well be able to give you a good idea of cost

Edited March 7, 2014 by Grace & Favour

[Nightwatch]

Stick,wrong end of! Thought you were moving your stove.

 

Interesting replies though. How is your fire trying to kill you? Is there a fault? Is it repairable?

 

Mattys name comes up quite frequently. Seems he's on the ball.

 

Martyn

[Starcoaster]

Given the figures people have suggested, it's looking cheaper than I thought- I thought fitting was going to be £600-£1k for some reason.

Seems like having the flue pipe replaced too mght me a plan, although I will try to stick to 4" so it works with the roof opening and my chimney.

 

I would also like to get the tiles under the current stove taken upand replaced too, as lots of them are cracked and chipped and loose, but that will be not so pricey comparatively, I suspect. Are flue pipes expensive?!

There's a stove in the for sale section at the moment that looks good, 5k and 4" flue opening. I am unlikely to get that specific one as I cannot budget for it at present, but one of those, an AX2 at £300 new looks like a goer.

 

How is it trying to kill me- it would be easier to list how it is not.

The door catch does not catch properly, neither the catch nor the door cannot be got off to replace it (multiple people scoffed at this, tried and failed).

The door does not seal properly and you can get and smoke wisping out of it (the stove rope is fine, and I have tried many different ones), the joint between the stove and the bottom of the flue bubbles out gooey stuff that I assume is creosote despite my attempts to seal it with putty, cement and everything else, which only work for a few days at a time.

It is not fixed to the floor and when I bang into something the whole stove moves about by a cm or so, the baffle plate is welded in and still stuck solid with clinker from the start of winter when I was inadvertently using smokeless fuel, and despite many, many hours of trying to break it down, I have not succeeded but did cause the aforementioned problem/crack where the flue meets the stove. Even with the vents totally shut down the fire burns away at full pelt, indicating air intake coming from somewhere else, although I have looked over it carefully and cannot find any cracks or anything to explain it.

 

The CO alarm is apt to go off more regularly than it should, but if I keep the hatch open when I am awake and several hoppers open when asleep, it seems to be ok.

 

So yeah, that's how. It is an old, crappy stove installed as bodgily as possible by a flaming idiot, and there are too many things wrong with too many parts of it for me to be able to save it, added to which, I hate the fecking thing.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Starcoaster

[Alan de Enfield]

Starcoaster, on 07 Mar 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

 

 

I would also like to get the tiles under the current stove taken upand replaced too, as lots of them are cracked and chipped and loose, but that will be not so pricey comparatively, I suspect. Aree flue pipes expensive?!

 

From memory (the receipts went with the 'old'boat) the tiles cost more that the total fitting - I've got in my mind the tiles and adhesive were £175.

 

We were advised to use ceramic (read expensive) tiles to withstand the heat better, and to use cork-tile adhesive as it is flexible enough to move about with the differerential heat expansion and contraction - and - withstands the boat banging into things (or being banged into)

 

Edit - even when I proof read it there are spuling mustakes

Edited March 7, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[bizzard]

The preparation for and tiling takes time and would probably cost much more than a more or less straight swop of a stove.

[Starcoaster]

£175? That sounds like a lot of tiles! I only want to do the underneath of the stove, not the walls- the wall tiles are fine- the total area is about three square foot.

 

I think putting a new stove on the old tiles, including fixing it down, would kill the old tiles for good and make them not fit for purpose.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Starcoaster

[alan_fincher]

Heron's are welded steel, apart from the doors which are cast iron. If your stove is cast, I don't think it's a Heron.

 

My only complaint of ours is the issue poxy self destruct glass mounting, (but this is common to lots of glass fronted stoves), and the fact that air control at the bottom is only by how "ajar" you have the door. A bit of a black art, and presumably why the similar, but later, Puffin, has separate controls to control air.

 

Cast iron stoves, (even humongous expensive ones like the much loved Squirrel), do tend to get cracking in the iron over time, (not all of them, of course, but at least some), and in the most extreme cases I have heard, the fire ends up falling out of the stove that should be containing it. I've not heard of catastrophic failures of welded steel stoves, which is why I strongly prefer them.

 

Personally the only thing I have seen I would consider replacing a Heron or a Puffin with is the Boatman. It's possible the flue size is the same, but also possible that it stands lower, and your existing flue would not reach - you would need to check, unless you can find someone who has done it.

Cheap stoves, (by that I mean anything cheaper than a Boatman or Puffin), largely scare the crap out of me, and I simply would not buy one. By choice I'd not even have an Epping in a back cabin, even though they now have a 4 figure price tag, but unfortunately if you need a small cabin rangem there really do seem to be no alternatives to one.

[Nightwatch]

Given the figures people have suggested, it's looking cheaper than I thought- I thought fitting was going to be £600-£1k for some reason.

Seems like having the flue pipe replaced too mght me a plan, although I will try to stick to 4" so it works with the roof opening and my chimney.

 

I would also like to get the tiles under the current stove taken upand replaced too, as lots of them are cracked and chipped and loose, but that will be not so pricey comparatively, I suspect. Are flue pipes expensive?!

There's a stove in the for sale section at the moment that looks good, 5k and 4" flue opening. I am unlikely to get that specific one as I cannot budget for it at present, but one of those, an AX2 at £300 new looks like a goer.

 

How is it trying to kill me- it would be easier to list how it is not.

The door catch does not catch properly, neither the catch nor the door cannot be got off to replace it (multiple people scoffed at this, tried and failed).

The door does not seal properly and you can get and smoke wisping out of it (the stove rope is fine, and I have tried many different ones), the joint between the stove and the bottom of the flue bubbles out gooey stuff that I assume is creosote despite my attempts to seal it with putty, cement and everything else, which only work for a few days at a time.

It is not fixed to the floor and when I bang into something the whole stove moves about by a cm or so, the baffle plate is welded in and still stuck solid with clinker from the start of winter when I was inadvertently using smokeless fuel, and despite many, many hours of trying to break it down, I have not succeeded but did cause the aforementioned problem/crack where the flue meets the stove. Even with the vents totally shut down the fire burns away at full pelt, indicating air intake coming from somewhere else, although I have looked over it carefully and cannot find any cracks or anything to explain it.

 

The CO alarm is apt to go off more regularly than it should, but if I keep the hatch open when I am awake and several hoppers open when asleep, it seems to be ok.

 

So yeah, that's how. It is an old, crappy stove installed as bodgily as possible by a flaming idiot, and there are too many things wrong with too many parts of it for me to be able to save it, added to which, I hate the fecking thing.

Get a new one then. Glad I asked! The tiles,as you say should be easy. Replacing one for one,near enough, will be reasonably straightforward for a competent chap or lass.

 

Martyn

[Alan de Enfield]

£175? That sounds like a lot of tiles! I only want to do the underneath of the stove, not the walls- the wall tiles are fine- the total area is about three square foot.

 

I think putting a new stove on the old tiles, including fixing it down, would kill the old tiles for good and make them not fit for purpose.

 

As you can see from the pic my 'fireplace was 30" x 30" but I was doing 3 walls and the floor

[Starcoaster]

Cheers, seems like I would need a lot less than that.

 

 

How can I tell the difference between iron and steel!? The door looks like the body to me, and I just assumed it was iron.

 

What is the issue with cheap stoves in terms of safety? Such as the AX2, for instance?

As mentioned, I don't know if I can fund this for next winter with even a cheap stove and if fitting is reasonable, if I have to llook at upwards of £300 for the stove and the flue is pricey, it defo won't happen at all.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Starcoaster

[Alan de Enfield]

I think you'll be lucky to find much of a stove at below £300.

 

There are a number of threads about the "Machine Mart" stoves and how they are 'cheap chinese crap' we installed one in an old Victorian house and ran it at full pelt for many many Winters, no cracks, no problems, no leaks, a caravan owner on our site has recently installed one in his static van he has had it running 24/7 since about November and no signs of any problems.

 

You get what you pay for, but in our (limted) experience the Machine Mart stoves are worthy of consideration.

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/search/filter/cast-iron-stoves-2/type/any/module/shopcategory/page/1

[bizzard]

Cheers, seems like I would need a lot less than that.

 

 

How can I tell the difference between iron and steel!? The door looks like the body to me, and I just assumed it was iron.

 

What is the issue with cheap stoves in terms of safety? Such as the AX2, for instance?

As mentioned, I don't know if I can fund this for next winter with even a cheap stove and if fitting is reasonable, if I have to llook at upwards of £300 for the stove and the flue is pricey, it defo won't happen at all.

If the flue pipe is straight with no bends or doglegs in it a straight length of mild steel pipe of 1.5 meters length would cost around £30-40 as and off cut from a steel fabrication workshop or from ebay plus carriage. A boat chandlers would probably be double that. New collars are about £40. I would go for a steel bodied stove, no question, but virtually all of them will have a cast iron door. The Boatman is a brilliant stove for the price but probably has a lower profile than your existing stove so you would either have stand it on a higher plinth, (build up the hearth a bit) or get a longer flue pipe.

[alan_fincher]

What is the issue with cheap stoves in terms of safety? Such as the AX2, for instance?

As mentioned, I don't know if I can fund this for next winter with even a cheap stove and if fitting is reasonable, if I have to llook at upwards of £300 for the stove and the flue is pricey, it defo won't happen at all.

 

I don't know about the AX2 - I have never seen one or heard of it, but I have just Googled it. Can't see any reason why it should not be OK, although 5KW in your boat sounds a bit OTT. Cheapest price that comes up, (without looking too hard), seems to be about £284.

 

The Boatman which many people have, and few seem to say a bad word about, is £299.

 

The AX2 may be a fine stove, I really have no idea, but based on widespread user satisfaction I think I'd buy the Boatman. (I know "the Pud" has one, if you want the experiences of another live-aboard).

[Starcoaster]

Cool Biz. It's a straight up flue, but there is no collar on the outside of the boat.

 

The reason I looked at the AX2 was because there is one in the for sale secrtion that made me look at it- plus it says it is 5kw, which is what my Heron purports to be, so I thoguht that would be a good swap. I didn't know the Boatman went from £325- I thought they were pricier than that, probably because they have the word "boat" in the name.

You can get a Boatman in colours!!!!

Edited March 7, 2014 by Starcoaster

[canals are us?]

Changing the stove and hearth is a simple DIY job. Ideally buy a stove of similar size.

 

Remove stove/flue and tiles on hearth and cut and relay new. (2 hours work) Leave to set, next day grout hearth tiles then assemble and place stove without glass door/bricks, check alignment with collar by loosely fitting flue in place.

Mark fixings to fix stove to hearth. Bolt/fix hearth down using what suits your stove.

Cut new 4 inch flue £31.00 to length, I used a jigsaw with a metal blade. 2 blades used. Install flue. Push in and wedge 1 inch stove rope around Flue in collar to centralise the 4 inch flue into the inside of the collar and then also seal top around join with high temp silicone.

Centre flue in stove collar and if gap is large use a suitable stove rope to pack the join and then finish with fire cement.

Use stove paint to paint the new flue, and fire cement once dry. Sit back and enjoy and ventilate the room to let the paint cure.

I'd say around 4 hours to do all the above.

 

James

[bizzard]

Cool Biz. It's a straight up flue, but there is no collar on the outside of the boat.

 

The reason I looked at the AX2 was because there is one in the for sale secrtion that made me look at it- plus it says it is 5kw, which is what my Heron purports to be, so I thoguht that would be a good swap. I didn't know the Boatman went from £325- I thought they were pricier than that, probably because they have the word "boat" in the name.

You can get a Boatman in colours!!!!

So you have a bit of tube welded on the roof as a collar? nothing wrong with that as long as the fluepipe has adequate clearance in it. I have a Boatman stove now 15 years old and used full time during the winter, grate and everything original still apart from the door glass which I bashed with the poker.

[Starcoaster]

Yeah, a bit of tube sticks straight out of the roof, and that's the lot!