Barrus Shire 50 fuel issues

[Doug Scullery]

So, a few weeks ago after leaving it far too long between engine services and allowing my fuel tank to become far too empty I discovered I had diesel bug. This initially manifested itself when the engine just kind of chug-chugged and stopped while I was charging the batteries. After that it was hard to start, took longer and required more revs than normal but it did run. I pumped all the diesel and gunk out of my tank, gave it a swill around with fresh diesel and pumped that out before having a dose of Marine 16 and 150L of fresh diesel put in and changing both fuel filters. It ran fine for a couple of weeks and then on Tuesday it seemed to happen again, it stuttered to a stop. Like before it was difficult to restart but did start eventually, kept trying to die but provided I gave it enough revs when I heard that starting to happen it would run like normal again. I took off the primary fuel filter assuming that my diesel bug treatment had failed and expecting to find it all gunged up again, that's where things got weird, it was sparkly clean, looked brand new, clearly not blocked with diesel bug. So, I refitted the filter, bled the fuel lines like normal and the engine, so far, has started and run like normal since.

 

Anybody got any idea what's going on here? Is it possible I didn't bleed the fuel lines properly after my diesel bug treatment and there were some bubbles that caused the problem? Is it possible that that would take a week or two to become a problem? Seems odd to me. Any other theories as to what could be doing on here?

[Flyboy]

I assume you mean the Barrus supplied primary filter on the engine. This filter is after the electric fuel pump so any gunge would have to pass through it to reach the filter. The gunge may be causing trouble in the pump, they are not very gunge tolerent. You need a fuel filter/ aglomerator ( CAV type) between the tank outlet and the pump, preferably below the bottom of the tank and close to the outlet. You could disconnect the pipe from the pump outlet where it goes into the primary filter, place in a container and switch on the ignition. Run off a few litres and see how clean the fuel is.

[Doug Scullery]

I mean the CAV filter between the tank and the pump. My engine has two identical CAV filters, one where you describe (attached to the swim) and then one after the pump bolted to the engine itself. I changed both after I had the diesel bug treatment put in, but I only bothered checking the first one for gunge yesterday, assuming that if the first was clean then the second must be, too.

 

Sweet boat name, btw!

[steelaway]

I mean the CAV filter between the tank and the pump. My engine has two identical CAV filters, one where you describe (attached to the swim) and then one after the pump bolted to the engine itself. I changed both after I had the diesel bug treatment put in, but I only bothered checking the first one for gunge yesterday, assuming that if the first was clean then the second must be, too.

 

Sweet boat name, btw!

 

The second filter bolted to the block is (should be) much finer than the pre filter and might be blocked again.

 

Alec

[Doug Scullery]

 

The second filter bolted to the block is (should be) much finer than the pre filter

 

Interesting. It certainly isn't, it's the same CAV housing and the same generic (Fram at the moment, I think, but I've had Delphi and Mahle in the past) unit inside, which is what I've always bought from the boatyard. Are different grades of CAV filter available? Should I have been buying two different types?

[Flyboy]

 

Interesting. It certainly isn't, it's the same CAV housing and the same generic (Fram at the moment, I think, but I've had Delphi and Mahle in the past) unit inside, which is what I've always bought from the boatyard. Are different grades of CAV filter available? Should I have been buying two different types?

I was told that Barrus use a re-badged 296 filter. I understand that the Delphi HDF 296 to be the industry standard.

[Doug Scullery]

I was told that Barrus use a re-badged 296 filter. I understand that the Delphi HDF 296 to be the industry standard.

I've definitely had Delphi HDF 296 in the past, I think the Fram unit has the number 296 in it's name somewhere, as well. I've never made a differentiation between brands, just bought whatever's available. Do you think I should?

[Flyboy]

I've definitely had Delphi HDF 296 in the past, I think the Fram unit has the number 296 in it's name somewhere, as well. I've never made a differentiation between brands, just bought whatever's available. Do you think I should?

I don't think the make is very important but changing it and checking for water in the fuel regularly is. I use Delphi HDF 296 because they are reliable and cheap. Your problem has not been caused by the filter but by water in the fuel. The filters have done their job in stopping the gunge entering the injection pump. A good maintainance regime is the key.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Flyboy

[Tony Brooks]

Is the lift pump the vertical disk shaped one held together with 6 screws? If so mark the cover, body and base so you reassemble correctly and take the body out. I have found those with bug around and under the valves.

[steelaway]

 

Interesting. It certainly isn't, it's the same CAV housing and the same generic (Fram at the moment, I think, but I've had Delphi and Mahle in the past) unit inside, which is what I've always bought from the boatyard. Are different grades of CAV filter available? Should I have been buying two different types?

See - http://www.barrus.co.uk/pdfs/RDG6039039%20-%20Issue%204%20-%20Shire09%20Complete%20Manual.pdf

 

Page 45

 

Alex

[Flyboy]

See - http://www.barrus.co.uk/pdfs/RDG6039039%20-%20Issue%204%20-%20Shire09%20Complete%20Manual.pdf

 

Page 45

 

Alex

This manual is for the 09 series Barrus which I think is fitted with a Delphi HDF 906 spin on filter. The earlier 06 series had the 296 filter, the OP has stated that he has this type.

[Doug Scullery]

Is the lift pump the vertical disk shaped one held together with 6 screws? If so mark the cover, body and base so you reassemble correctly and take the body out. I have found those with bug around and under the valves.

No, I can picture the ones you're talking about and it's not one of them. It's got a Yanmar sticker on it with various numbers, none of which come up with anything when I Google them. It does however have one of those QR codes on it, I will try getting a QR scanner app for my phone and see what comes up when I scan it. I can't find any photos of a similar looking pump online so I will try and get one myself to post here. Not an easy place to photograph, though, it might have to wait until daylight.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Doug Scullery

[ditchcrawler]

Delphi filters are not the same as equivalents sold by motor factors.

[/url]

[Doug Scullery]

Delphi filters are not the same as equivalents sold by motor factors.

[/url]

I've definitely had ones that look like both of those (not the actual Coopers brand, but definitely ones that have a channel around the edge rather than the holes in the Delphi one). I'd assumed they do exactly the same job but direct the fuel a slightly different way, would I be wrong in that assumption?

[ditchcrawler]

I've definitely had ones that look like both of those (not the actual Coopers brand, but definitely ones that have a channel around the edge rather than the holes in the Delphi one). I'd assumed they do exactly the same job but direct the fuel a slightly different way, would I be wrong in that assumption?

I will let Tony explain the difference, its the way they are put together

[peterboat]

I had a similat problem this year it was the electric pump playing up! bought one off Amazon with a pre filter and problem solved. On here their are lots of threads on how rubbish barrus shire electric pumps are.

 

Peter

[Tony Brooks]

I've definitely had ones that look like both of those (not the actual Coopers brand, but definitely ones that have a channel around the edge rather than the holes in the Delphi one). I'd assumed they do exactly the same job but direct the fuel a slightly different way, would I be wrong in that assumption?

 

The spiral wound type as illustrated by the Delphi filter in the photo is said to have a greater filtering area so can either be made with smaller pours to give the same service life or with the same as the pleated filter (the Coopers) and have a potentially longer service life. Personally I wold always use the pocket filter because any water it agglomerates exits the bottom so needs to turn through 180 degrees and move up the full height of the filter before it can leave the filter. The pleated filter only requires it to turn through 90 degrees and in some case only rise less than an inch. Mann filters and other I do not know about supply pocket filters for 296 applications. It seems Filtre Auto or whatever they have morphed into supply pleated filters. The brands include Fram, Coopers, Purolators and I think Champion among others.

[Doug Scullery]

I had a similat problem this year it was the electric pump playing up! bought one off Amazon with a pre filter and problem solved. On here their are lots of threads on how rubbish barrus shire electric pumps are.

 

Peter

Any chance of a link/what were your search terms to find the right thing? The fuel pump is not something I've payed much attention to on my engine, am I right in assuming its a fairly easy part to take off and replace with something similar but different?

[Flyboy]

Any chance of a link/what were your search terms to find the right thing? The fuel pump is not something I've payed much attention to on my engine, am I right in assuming its a fairly easy part to take off and replace with something similar but different?

I had problems with the original pump on my Barrus Shire 45. The engine would run fine but would cut out sometimes when the tank was below half full. It obviously was not pumping and the engine was running on gravity feed. I replaced it with a Facet Posiflow pump for £30 And had no further problems after 1200 hours. The original pump was a Chinese UShin which are well known as troublesome . A pitty Barrus spoilt a very good engine with a cheap and nasty pump.

 

http://www.facet-purolator.com/posi-flo-pumps.php

[peterboat]

Any chance of a link/what were your search terms to find the right thing? The fuel pump is not something I've payed much attention to on my engine, am I right in assuming its a fairly easy part to take off and replace with something similar but different?

Fitted a Facet bought it from Amazon next day delivery for 30 squids and like Flyboy it sorted out my problems instantly

 

Peter

Any chance of a link/what were your search terms to find the right thing? The fuel pump is not something I've payed much attention to on my engine, am I right in assuming its a fairly easy part to take off and replace with something similar but different?

The pump lives on my Barrus below the air filter a bit of a pain to remove but no more than a hours job

 

Peter