Manchester Ship Canal

[adam1uk]

We did the Manchester Ship Canal this afternoon, from Weston Marsh Lock on the Weaver down to Ellesmere Port. Much less scary than we were expecting - although we were overtaken by a ship which was almost as wide as we are long.

 

 

 

He radioed to ask us to pull over, and slowed down so there was almost no wash. We exchanged pleasantries on the radio afterwards!

 

And this was the day we did the Anderton boat lift too!

 

Full details here: http://nbbriarrose.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/big-trip-day-18.html

[homer2911]

We did the Manchester Ship Canal this afternoon, from Weston Marsh Lock on the Weaver down to Ellesmere Port. Much less scary than we were expecting - although we were overtaken by a ship which was almost as wide as we are long.

He radioed to ask us to pull over, and slowed down so there was almost no wash. We exchanged pleasantries on the radio afterwards!

And this was the day we did the Anderton boat lift too!

Full details here: http://nbbriarrose.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/big-trip-day-18.html

Did it the other way last year, in glorious sunny weather - no ships though! Interesting trip, but loads of prep needed - Certificate of Seaworthiness, BW to open the locks at each end, and Local Authority needed to swing the road bridge at Ellesmere Port. Worth the effort.

[Timleech]

That's the ship which does the regular container runs between Liverpool and Irlam, took over from some big barges with a push tug.

 

Tim

[Neil2]

I'm obviously out of touch, I thought NB's were only allowed on the MSC "rafted up" in pairs?

 

It's been a while this this came up - I wonder if one of you guys could give a run down of what is involved to make the passage, or maybe there's a handy link?

[adam1uk]

Did it the other way last year, in glorious sunny weather - no ships though! Interesting trip, but loads of prep needed - Certificate of Seaworthiness, BW to open the locks at each end, and Local Authority needed to swing the road bridge at Ellesmere Port. Worth the effort.

Yes it is a lot to organise -- and we had arranged to do it next Monday. But having seen the weather forecast for Monday, we decided yesterday that we'd see if we could do it today instead. All those concerned could have said no because 48 hours notice is required, but they all pulled out the stops so we could do the trip.

[homer2911]

I'm obviously out of touch, I thought NB's were only allowed on the MSC "rafted up" in pairs?

 

It's been a while this this came up - I wonder if one of you guys could give a run down of what is involved to make the passage, or maybe there's a handy link?

Google Peel Ports and look for Notices for Mariners in the Manchester Ship Canal info there - they publish a guide for small boats wishing to travel the canal. The Ellesmere Port to Weaver run is only 6 miles, but you still need to comply with all the requirements, except if you are only doing that bit there is no need for mega-long ropes.

Edited September 14, 2013 by homer2911

[Neil2]

Thanks for that Homer - this seems to be the relevant link for anyone interested http://peelports.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Induction_Pack_MSC.pdf

 

Just to be clear, you still have to buy a tidal almanac even if you are just doing the Ellesmere-Weaver bit?

Edited September 14, 2013 by Neil2

[adam1uk]

Thanks for that Homer - this seems to be the relevant link for anyone interested http://peelports.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Induction_Pack_MSC.pdf

 

Just to be clear, you still have to buy a tidal almanac even if you are just doing the Ellesmere-Weaver bit?

Yes, that's all the info you need. Print it out and keep it because having a copy of the bye laws is required for the sea worthiness certificate.

 

You don't need the tidal almanac. Your surveyor will probably insist on the two 50 ft ropes, but will accept that if you have four of 25 ft you could lash a couple together to make the required length.

[Ian Mac]

If you are actually going to use the ropes ie go through the locks, then I would actually recommend that you have 2 100ft lines. Why? Its quicker all round, you heave the line to the man on the bank and get him to pass you end back, having once passed it around a bollard, this means that you can let go and not have to wait for a man to walk back to lift the loops off the bollards, saving time all around. As normally its the same crew at each lock (they travel by van) they are pre briefed at the next lock

 

Also you don't need Ship to Shore wireless they let us down with Mobile phone numbers as contacts, which actually work better as they have removed most of the wireless repeater stations, and only have one at each end these days.

[frangar]

I would say that VHF is better due to the fact you can speak to other vessels as well as VTS.

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Neil2]

Just having read through the documents, it looks like the requirement for narrowboats to travel in pairs has been relegated to an advisory note. But the comment remains about narrowboats "lacking stability" - they are clearly worried about narrowboats tipping over if/when a large vessel passes. Anyone know if there is some history behind this concern?

[adam1uk]

Just having read through the documents, it looks like the requirement for narrowboats to travel in pairs has been relegated to an advisory note. But the comment remains about narrowboats "lacking stability" - they are clearly worried about narrowboats tipping over if/when a large vessel passes. Anyone know if there is some history behind this concern?

 

I get the impression that they want to discourage as many narrowboaters as possible - and understandably don't want inexperienced crews on the ship canal. But no-one wants bad things to happen (can you imagine the paperwork if a narrowboat tipped over?) So when Coastal Deniz passed us, the captain slowed right down so there was virtually no wash at all.

 

I'd say VHF is almost essential. I did far more calls during yesterday's ship canal trip than I did on the tidal Thames. And it was especially useful when the Coastal Deniz could talk directly to me to tell me where he wanted me to wait while he passed. It would have been much more long-winded if we'd had mobile phone alone.

[Neil2]

Actually I'm a bit surprised they let boats on without VHF radio, and if they made this a condition it would act as a sort of filter, what I mean is not many narrowboat skippers have a VHF licence and it's a fair assumption that anyone who does probably has a reasonable amount of experience.

[Naughty Cal]

If you are actually going to use the ropes ie go through the locks, then I would actually recommend that you have 2 100ft lines. Why? Its quicker all round, you heave the line to the man on the bank and get him to pass you end back, having once passed it around a bollard, this means that you can let go and not have to wait for a man to walk back to lift the loops off the bollards, saving time all around. As normally its the same crew at each lock (they travel by van) they are pre briefed at the next lock

 

Also you don't need Ship to Shore wireless they let us down with Mobile phone numbers as contacts, which actually work better as they have removed most of the wireless repeater stations, and only have one at each end these days.

How would any big ships contact you? Do you expect them to have your mobile number?

Actually I'm a bit surprised they let boats on without VHF radio, and if they made this a condition it would act as a sort of filter, what I mean is not many narrowboat skippers have a VHF licence and it's a fair assumption that anyone who does probably has a reasonable amount of experience.

To be fair so am I.

 

Lets be honest in the grand scheme of things £100 for the radio course and £100 for a decent VHF set is hardly a major cost as far as boating is concerned.

 

If you are going to venture onto large commercial waterways then it is vital that you can communicate with the much larger vessels on the waters.

[frangar]

When we made the passage this summer MSC were quite happy for us to be a single boat. I asked them if there was a time that they would prefer us to transit from Weston marsh to Ellesmere Port and we were given a time in between tides to minimise the chance of meeting any shipping. As has been pointed out pleasure craft are tolerated rather than encouraged so I thought it best to defer to the advice. I must say it was great fun to do and worth the expense for the safety cert etc. Once underway Eastham VTS were really helpful. We kept them informed of our position especially when passing through the fuel docks and when we had entered the basin at Ellesmere. I wouldn't dream of doing a passage without VHF.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Neil2]

........ we were given a time in between tides to minimise the chance of meeting any shipping.

That's a good point.

 

A further question - I'd be interested if anyone had to carry out any modifications as a result of the surveyors inspection, or is it just a check to see you have appropriate safety measures?

[Ian Mac]

How would any big ships contact you? Do you expect them to have your mobile number?

 

To be fair so am I.

 

Lets be honest in the grand scheme of things £100 for the radio course and £100 for a decent VHF set is hardly a major cost as far as boating is concerned.

 

If you are going to venture onto large commercial waterways then it is vital that you can communicate with the much larger vessels on the waters.

I speak from experience only, on our last trip the harbour-master at Eastham, rang up each time a ship was due to come past, and asked where we were and then suggested where we hid whilst a boat came past. One of the boats in our little convey did have StS however it didn't work due to lack of shore based transmitters, a well known problem on the MSC these days, so the mobile was used. The worse wash by far was off the Royal Snowdrop or whatever, which didn't slack off at all and went racing past, however we were well off line on the staiths below Latchford lock for this, but it certainly rocked us about. We were also passed by the container barge and pushtow going up to Salford, a Chemical boat escaping from Runcorn, and the Westminster Dredger on its way to empty at Frodsham, so nothing Big they were all ok. Traditionally the worse wash use to be from the Ship Canal Tugs, which could really get a move on, and were not noted for taking prisoners

When the Clayton boats went onto the ship canal, they were towed brested up as a raft from the port to Stanlow to load and then brought back in the same manor, it was only very late on that Claytons managed to negotiate that pairs could go out by themselves to load, we have the copy of the first "tug" certificate from 1952 issued by the MSC for our boat somewhere, which enabled the named captain to go out onto the canal, breasted up with another boat to Stanlow and back, under the control of the Ellesmere port dock master. This is in the days of proper big ships with several tugs using the canal all the way up to Manchester, not little coasters popping into Runcorn or Weston point. If a big boat is about they tend to not let you use the canal, at that time.

[casper ghost]

Nothing to do with this, but i've just bought an old steel trunk which has Manchester Ship Canal written on the side..

Casp'

[Naughty Cal]

Not the same as having VHF I'm afraid. And I am genuinely surprised they let you on there without one.

[adam1uk]

That's a good point.

 

A further question - I'd be interested if anyone had to carry out any modifications as a result of the surveyors inspection, or is it just a check to see you have appropriate safety measures?

Although it's called a seaworthiness certificate, the List of requirements doesn't really relate to whether you're seaworthy or not. Our surveyor did want to know who built the hull, but apart from that it's things like having the necessary ropes, life jackets, fire extinguishers, and horn. He admitted that they're all things you could have brought on board specially for the survey, and then remove again. A narrowboat's nav lights will never comply, but I switched ours on (and the headlight) anyway.

[Naughty Cal]

Although it's called a seaworthiness certificate, the List of requirements doesn't really relate to whether you're seaworthy or not. Our surveyor did want to know who built the hull, but apart from that it's things like having the necessary ropes, life jackets, fire extinguishers, and horn. He admitted that they're all things you could have brought on board specially for the survey, and then remove again. A narrowboat's nav lights will never comply, but I switched ours on (and the headlight) anyway.

It had always interested me what would happen if a boat (any boat not just a narrowboat) had an accident where certain items ie nav lights and VHF where mandatory but not found to be up to standard.

 

Just what would happen and what would be the consequences?

 

It is mandatory on the lower Trent (on ABP waters) for example but many don't bother!

[Guest]

It had always interested me what would happen if a boat (any boat not just a narrowboat) had an accident where certain items ie nav lights and VHF where mandatory but not found to be up to standard.

 

Just what would happen and what would be the consequences?

 

It is mandatory on the lower Trent (on ABP waters) for example but many don't bother!

The first problem would be insurance companies refusing to pay up. The owners of defective craft would then be sued I would guess?

[frangar]

I don't have nav lights....my cert was endordsed with " daylight passage only"

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Timleech]

I don't have nav lights....my cert was endordsed with " daylight passage only"

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

So was mine, although we have proper nav lights over & above what's normally required for the size of vessel. Apparently the MSC nav light requirement is designed for ships, so small vessels are unlikely to comply.

Actually we did need ours on our recent passage, as delays getting in at Eastham meant it was pretty much dark by the time we arrived at Ellesmere Port - and there was a ship following us, albeit at a safe distance.

 

 

 

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?imo=9383651

 

Tim

[Neil2]

I don't have nav lights....my cert was endordsed with " daylight passage only"

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

That is interesting - I recall a thread on another forum going on at length because someone asked whether a NB without nav lights could navigate the tidal Trent in daylight hours, legally. IIRC I think it is strictly speaking a requirement, but thankfully common sense prevails as very few NB's comply with the "Rules of the Road" regulations.