sailaways right or wrong way to go

[wullie]

i an looking to get boat, not sure how to go sailaway or used i am good at most diy projects,i would be looking to get sailaway part fitted out as would like to move asap, with used i could do this, [with proper boat] how long to fit out sailaway

[Paul C]

Piece of string really.......it depends on how adept you are, boats have similarities and differences with other DIY work. I'd personally not want to live and have to fit out a part-completed boat, but others do & have done successfully. I've done a few DIY jobs on the boat, and due to the general lack of space, moving items etc to gain access to one area of the boat, generally disrupts everywhere else on the boat.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

You can sleep on the floor with a camping stove all summer as you fit out to your requirements depending on your skill level and quality spec.

[Chalky]

I bought a sail away to fit out as a hobby boat. The original plan was to fit out in 6 months and cruise next summer. Time was limited to 1/2 to 1 day at the weekends. Due to the tight space and need to meet a reasonable number of regulations I did a lot of up front planning whilst I waited for the hull to be built ( I'm a Chartered Engineer so this is what I normally do as my day job ). These consisted of timing plans which detailed the order in which things needed fitting, drawings of different aspects of the fit out, calculations of wire sizes, cost estimates, where to source materials etc. I also did a lot of work on the boat safety scheme and generated a document listing all of the requirements and how I proposed to meet them. This was then used as evidence for the BSS inspection etc. We took the first short break on the boat 4 years later - after 10 years I'm still making additions and alterations. Most of these are fairly minor - the time spent doing the detailed planning has meant that I got things pretty correct the first time. The budget is another story...

 

Fitting a boat is not like DIY work at home. Storing materials, tools and working in a room 6' *6'2" * 25' is challenging - thinks like doors have to be taken outside to be turned round! In my case I found it easier to start fitting out at the back of the boat and work forwards towards the largest doors. Fitting out on-line meant that all of the power tools were used in the boat (it always rains when you need to need to router something!). The amount of dust and wood shavings produced could make it quite uncomfortable to live on board whilst fitting out. Not un do able, just not very comfortable.

[bowten]

I have had to live on the boat I was fitting out several times.Got the rear cabin finished then the bathroom and moved onto the galley.It isn't easy and sometimes got into my bunk with oak splinters for company,oak splinters was not the best of bed mates.It is doable but not advisable,you will soon get sick of it.

[bag 'o' bones]

We bought a sail away lined with bulk heads fitted and the electrics. Still took 2 years to fit out! Personally I wouldn't do another one unless I had an accessible back garden so I could do it at home.

You don't really save money. A lot of money is spent on fuel just getting to and from the mooring.

 

Still having said the above at least you can say that YOU built the boat and be proud of the achievement

[Nine of Hearts]

My intention was originally as yours, to fit out while living aboard. In reality, my circumstances changed and I ended up mirroring what Chalky describes and my fit out has taken 6 years so far (though I did get out more whilst partially complete, I suspect). If you have nowhere other than the boat to store materials and tools, you end up painting yourself into a corner as you complete "rooms", and your available workspace dimishes. Then, half the time taken to do any job is taken up with getting the bits and making the space to do it. The only reason I was able to carry on was because a trait that have been criticised for in the past, an inabilty to "see the bigger picture", meant that I could focus on each individual task without noticing that completion at this rate was years away.

 

having said that, I don't regret it. I know every single bolt, screw, batten and panel on that boat. Intimately.

[DeanS]

I dont mean to be funny when I say this....but if you plan on mooring in a marina, it is quite possible to install all the basics (toilet, shower, beds, kitchen worktops, electric isolator box, elec plugpoints, ceiling ply, and sidewall ply (without the trims) , T&G flooring, 220V lamps for lighting, and a temp 12V battery for the water pump, all within 2 weeks.

 

I did it.

 

I then spent longer fitting the extras (batteries, 12V downlights, leisure alternator, Ikea furniture, kitchen cupboards, tile the bathroom etc..)...over the course of a few months. I then went cruising, and now keep myself busy fitting solar panels, more cupboards, etc, in readiness for a boat safety in Aug, which is the requirement with a sailaway.)

 

If you're a DIY person, you can do what I did. I'm not a professional, but wood trims can hide many imperfections.

[Ex- Member]

We're another prolonged project year 9 LOL Although we did fit out from a steel shell including fitting engine & prop ourselves. We originally planned as a 3 year project has now taken 3 times longer. I will say though it's not due to the time taken to fit out. We did go on the water for 2 years as well, but the boat just got too cluttered to get the rest of the job finished., so we got the boat on to dry land.

Bereavements business problems and other family & personal problems were the main things causing the delay, at one stage a period of 18 months passed without a single job being done on the boat.

 

Having said that taking those problems into account we would still be a good year over our original estimated finish time.

 

If I were ever to do this again there's some things I would try to avoid which makes fitting out difficult.

 

Be close to the boat, travelling time fuel mounts up over time, we for many years only had weekends to do the work, bad weather can ruin a weekend. even in good weather, you get all your kit out, get some work done, then when you have to go back you have to put it all away again, very wasteful & time consuming. Try to plan work so you can go several days at a time rather than a day here and there and just a weekend.

 

Other tips

 

Get the boat on dry land.

Try to avoid being near trees.

Situate boat well on good solid sleepers at a decent height. Under the boat is good storage space.

Get a reliable 240 volt supply.

Get a reliable water supply.

Get yourself a van, even a small one, you will wreck your car moving tools and materials.

If you can have access to a workshop or even erect a shed or small workshop on site, do so, it will be invaluable. I use the back of an old Luton removal van for a small workshop. 20f/t lorry containers are perfect but even cheap ones could cost a grand.

Rig up some decent sturdy steps/stairs to access the boat, a set on bow and stern is useful.

Get a trade account with Screwfix, 60 days credit could be handy LOL

 

That's just for starters. There a thread with all sorts if tips and hints for fitting out somewhere I believe.

[lee b]

i'm sure theirs allot of scare mongering on here to put people off....6 years to fit out a boat...i have done complete house renovations in 12 weeks including full re-wiring...granted with help from my father who is a pensioner but can work harder than most 18 year olds...

i am actually looking to buy a sail away myself cause some of the boats i have been shown for my hard earned cash smell like someone has been smoking 60 woodbine's a day in them and some of the finishing has been rubbish, not to mention bad shots hitting the center of the toilet when taking a Johny cash,tiles hanging off the walls,doors jamming, tong and grove hanging down,if i done work like it in a house i'd have head hunters after me...some of these boats are less than 5 years old. anyway, my question is a guide price on a reasonable fit out on a 57ft boat ? the boat i'm looking at is spray foamed insulated,blacked & primed,windows and mushrooms in and a side hatch, some say 10k which seems to low,some say 25-30k which seems too high,i have done some pricing on materials and have come in around £16,000 with a 4k contingency...does this seem to be a reasonable budget? that's without going mental and having granite work tops and £300 taps...

[Ex- Member]

i'm sure theirs allot of scare mongering on here to put people off....6 years to fit out a boat

 

That's not the case, many people take boat projects on intending to finish in a reasonable time.

 

In life sh1t happens, I've just posted as such.

 

Many finish their boats on time and some don't, I doubt house building is any different, I've certainly seen some abandoned and unfinished houses in my time.

 

Not everyone who takes this kind of thing on are skilled either.

 

The people who have posted are being honest, that isn't scare mongering.

[Chalky]

There's more to building and fitting out a boat than there is to fitting out a house (I've done both). Fitting a boat is like playing chess - you have to think several stages ahead and fit things in certain orders. The systems are not as standardised as a house and the bespoke nature means that there's a lot more engineering involved in getting things sorted.

We paid about £17K 10 years ago for a 40' sail away which was basically a floating steel box with windows, doors, ballast, floors and a power train. We were at the lower end of the market for costs (It's a Liverpool). At the time better makes were quoting £25K +.

[bastion]

I looked at the sailaway option last year and after going around brokers to get ideas of what I wanted in a boat I decided that I could get a 2yr old boat fully fitted for less money than I could buy a sailaway and fit it out myself. Some brokers do have boats that smell of woodbines but have a good tour around over several weekends and you will get a good feel of the market. I must add that I am a joiner by trade but still could not come up with a realistic budget to warrant a sailaway.

[Chalky]

I looked at the sailaway option last year and after going around brokers to get ideas of what I wanted in a boat I decided that I could get a 2yr old boat fully fitted for less money than I could buy a sailaway and fit it out myself. Some brokers do have boats that smell of woodbines but have a good tour around over several weekends and you will get a good feel of the market. I must add that I am a joiner by trade but still could not come up with a realistic budget to warrant a sailaway.

 

Fully agree. The reason why we went sailaway is that we have 3 children and boats that can sleep 5 are rare. By the time we'd bought a boat and converted it to sleep 5 we'd have spent more that fitting from scratch. If we'd been looking for fewer berths then we'd have bought a ready fitted boat.

[lee b]

soz julynian,i was typing this while you were typing your post and didn't get to read your post untill i had already posted mine and i do understand that circumstances can change for the worse when least expected...unless''god forbid'' i have something bad happen within my family or my own health then i will be in a position to work 7 days a week and i have a bad habit of working from early morning until silly 'o clock in the evening,and although i can imagine the small space in boat is hard to work around,so is re-wiring a ribbed roof space and insulting them and tanking out cellars,also i have had to build fire walls in victorian terraced house where the attic space from one house to the next is open,carrying blocks,bricks and mortar up stares and through a hole that posh spice would have trouble fitting through isn't much fun,boats have funny angles to work with,i have worked on 300 year old barns where you have to work constantly round funny angles...the £16,000 plus a 4k contingency is for materials only,the boat is already budgeted...i'm still looking at second hand boats but am worried about buying one that has spent its life in a marina having its hull eaten away with electrolysis...i know you can have a survey but that could be £600 down the swanny if the hull needs work or other major problems are picked up,also like house surveys they can only point out so much,like...the engine works...i could tell ya that when the ignition is clicked on...they cant pull floors up and rip out walls so they can really see how electrics have been installed... i have also been told by several boaters that getting money from a surveyor for something that wasn't picked up is like trying to pull leg bone out of a hungry lions mouth which if they are anything like a house surveyor i can well believe it...anyway...£16,000 on materials...ya or nay?

[DeanS]

If thats your budget, yes you'll be able to do it. I did it for much less, but I don't have granite kitchen tops or oak wood. I have Ikea kitchen tops, and panelled fooring.

What I would suggest is that you think before you buy. Are you going for invertor and 220V fridge or a gas fridge etc. Those decisions will impact on your costs. Will you be living off the grid. Buy solar...and that costs...so really when you talk about what your fit out budget is, you need to know the big picture, and work to that...else you might have a lovely boat, perfect for living in a marina, but difficult to use when cruising. Also...look into condensation.....and how to avoid it....it will impact your design...and impact your costs. What about heating...do you want radiators...or coal stove....

 

hope Im making sense. You need to first create a list of "must haves", and see how that impacts your budget...and see what's left for interior decoration.

 

 

..£16,000 on materials...ya or nay?

Edited May 13, 2013 by DeanS

[Ex- Member]

soz julynian,i was typing this while you were typing your post and didn't get to read your post untill i had already posted mine and i do understand that circumstances can change for the worse when least expected...unless''god forbid'' i have something bad happen within my family or my own health then i will be in a position to work 7 days a week and i have a bad habit of working from early morning until silly 'o clock in the evening,and although i can imagine the small space in boat is hard to work around,so is re-wiring a ribbed roof space and insulting them and tanking out cellars,also i have had to build fire walls in victorian terraced house where the attic space from one house to the next is open,carrying blocks,bricks and mortar up stares and through a hole that posh spice would have trouble fitting through isn't much fun,boats have funny angles to work with,i have worked on 300 year old barns where you have to work constantly round funny angles...the £16,000 plus a 4k contingency is for materials only,the boat is already budgeted...i'm still looking at second hand boats but am worried about buying one that has spent its life in a marina having its hull eaten away with electrolysis...i know you can have a survey but that could be £600 down the swanny if the hull needs work or other major problems are picked up,also like house surveys they can only point out so much,like...the engine works...i could tell ya that when the ignition is clicked on...they cant pull floors up and rip out walls so they can really see how electrics have been installed... i have also been told by several boaters that getting money from a surveyor for something that wasn't picked up is like trying to pull leg bone out of a hungry lions mouth which if they are anything like a house surveyor i can well believe it...anyway...£16,000 on materials...ya or nay?

 

Hi Lee

 

You're not too far off in your assessment, 16K with 4 k but you will most likely use all that contingency if you not buying in too much bespoke stuff and lining out bulkheads in decent ply with hardwood trim and good doors and want some decent flooring.

 

We fitted out from a steel shell so had many more expenses including engine. We've easily spent 35k since engine fitting.

 

You do have to take care costing though, it's not just the main construction materials. things like

 

Inverters

Chargers

Batteries

Cable

Charge controllers

Consumer unit

stove / heating

By this time you'll be thinking solar panels and all sorts of other gadgets & gizmos LOL that will soak money up like a sponge.

 

Read up on some of the members blogs on their builds, you'll probably get some good ideas and spot where you might have missed on costing anything.

 

Our blog is here if you fancy a look.

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=20642&hl=

[lee b]

cheers...it will be primarily be for permanent cruising but none of us knows whats round the corner so i will account for mooring hook ups,galvanic isolator,i want a multi fuel stove as i enjoyed cleaning all the dust up in my home in france, its worth the effort to see a roaring fire on a cold night with a glass of irish whisky...i am thinking of a webasto heater too and have found a good site that sells complete narrowboat kits from the usa,even after import duties it still works out much cheaper,and yes it is the same kit used here,same codes,spec etc...the inverter will be from france,a 3000w pure sine wave inverter charger and its made by a good company who make consumer boards and after living in france for over six years i know they would not let anything electrical on the market unless it is good...anyone who has done consuel work in france will know what i mean...the french electrics are far more complicated than our system and regs are much more stringent,.i like the internet and enjoy tracking bargains but am also aware that time can be money so will try my best to get deals on items like inverters,wood burners but i don't want to shop around for every mortal thing off the net...by paying a few quid more in a chandlers for the smaller cheaper items i would probably spend more time working on the project and less on the net..

it was interesting to hear your comments on condensation and how to avoid it?...i don't want a washing machine on my boat that can help cause condensation and uses more juice from batteries,uses all ya water and no where to dry them when we get bad weather''and count dracula has seen more sun than me since i moved back from france'',i'd prefer to pop my clothes into a launderette for a fiver ! i was thinking of filling out any extra space with rock wool between the ash and the spray foam...do you think that will help with condensation as its usually linked with cold air and hot air plus humidity ?

[Ex- Member]

it was interesting to hear your comments on condensation and how to avoid it?...i don't want a washing machine on my boat that can help cause condensation

 

With regard to condensation, basically insulate properly and you should have little problem with condensation. We have lived on the boat since October We use a 5kg twin tub for washing, condensation really is minimal even in the area immediately adjacent.

 

Even having a shower condensation is limited to the bathroom, but all dries up pretty quickly after the shower.

 

We occasionally get a light misting on the portholes when cooking, we do cook a lot and heat the kettle regularly throughout the day. We use bungs in the portholes through the night and the worst condensation we get is when removing the bungs in the morning, the glass will be quite wet with bubbly water surface, but rarely wet enough to drip on to the Oak liners. We simply dry with a microfiber and they stay dry from then on.

 

Good even insulation at 50mm thick is the key, so if you use Sprayfoam ensure all the cavity is filled evenly. Personally I would spend time fitting foamboard product like Celotex sealing in gaps with can sprayfoam and sealing the surface with aluminium adhesive tape.

 

It's a wet miserable day here today have a 1kw fire going it's warm in the boat and looking around the boat, not even a misting anywhere.

[lee b]

the boat i am interested in is a liverpool built boat with a canal line engine,anyone have experience with these? i have spoken to a independent lad who has worked fitting boats out since his school years and also paints them and he says although you get less steel decoration on liverpool boats the finish is good on them and you don't have to mess about grinding welds back to get a finish on the paint work...?

it is spray foamed insulated, bulk heads,sides and roof,so would it still need filling out at all or is this sufficient? i have seen a boat in progress and there seems to be room for added rockwool but would this stop natural air flow?

also has anyone had experience with canal line engines,i have heard mixed reports but most marina's i have talked to says that modern engines are pretty much as good as each other,they all have pro's and con's?

i have been assured that canal line engines have good after care if anything does go wrong...? the engine have a 3 year warranty...

i asked these because its a lot of lolly for me to part with,and don't get me wrong if i could find what i want in a second hand boat i wouldn't mess around with a sail away but it seems as though i will get more for my money...some of the boats that are in my price range have been,well,not good...and £40 to 45 k is quite alot of money to part with for something not good...

LAST POST''FOR NOW LOL''...i am really looking forward to getting stuck in but am also a little apprehensive of taking the plunge...my main concern is finding work ie small jobs here and their or even starting a small business where i can stay on my boat...''make a change from ripping old houses to bits and breathing in 150 year old spider shit ,hidden aspestos and god knows what else'', are their any of you who work from their boats or live like i would like to,moving around and small jobbing?... also are their any regrets with any of you or is the life as good as i dream ? thanks for you responses...