Issues connecting to the site?

[Keeping Up]

Looks like '302 Found' is a response that temporarily redirects to another URL: http://www.w3.org/Pr...2616-sec10.html '302 Found The requested resource resides temporarily under a different URI. Since the redirection might be altered on occasion, the client SHOULD continue to use the Request-URI for future requests. This response is only cacheable if indicated by a Cache-Control or Expires header field. The temporary URI SHOULD be given by the Location field in the response. Unless the request method was HEAD, the entity of the response SHOULD contain a short hypertext note with a hyperlink to the new URI(s). ' So it looks like '302 Found' is some sort of redirect, for me I only get this when clicking one the new postings link or new postings icon. If you click on the posts *without* using the new postings link or the new postings icon on each thread do you still get delays, and does it come back in Firebug as '200 OK'? Also for the '302 Found' response, if you click on the "GET index.php?showtopic=" heading in Firebug, does it give a reponse header containing the redirected location, something like: h_t_t_p://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=52171&pid=976840&st=0entry976840 (without the underscores) cheers, Pete. ~smpt~

 

It's difficult because the timing results aren't consistent. Sometimes I'll get the answer straight away but usually it's a wait for 20 seconds, or 45 seconds, or just over a minute, and sometimes it times out altogether. It seems to depend on what I've beeng doing, what I've already viewed, etc. I seem to be much more likely to get a quick result if it's a long time since I clicked on anything. And now it seems as if I'm confusing the server by running on 2PCs at once.

 

Clicking on "View New Content" gets me typically 45 seconds blocking (though it varies considerably) then a 200 OK.

 

It seems if I click on the topic heading in the "New Content" list, the request is for the topic with parameters of "&view=getnewpost&fromsearch=1"

 

After typically 45 seconds of blocking this gets a 302 redirecting to the precise posting in that topic where I last looked, with a parameter of "&pid=1044821&st=40entry1044821" for example. This gets a 200 OK, sometimes with more blocking and all within canalworld.net.

 

But another time I just got my 302 after only 3 seconds of blocking followed by 42 seconds of "Waiting" so it still gave 45 seconds but for a different reason; on this occasion the following item got its 200 immediately afterwards.

 

If I go straight to a topic from the list of topics in the Forum instead of the New Content list I always get a 200 OK, after typically 21 seconds of blocking but sometimes longer.

 

From the Firebug docs - "Time spent in a browser queue waiting for a network connection (formerly called Queueing)". So perhaps something's keeping connections open when it shouldn't be. If you type about:config in the URL bar, what does network.http.max-connections say? (MIght be worth screenshotting all your network.http config options here to see if any others are doolally.)

 

As it's a new Firefox installation, almost everything is set to default; certainly everything of this nature (all the network.http settings for example). is still on default. The max-connections value is set to the default of 256

 

ETA and now almost every time it either gives me the page quickly or times out completely, neither of which give me any information!

Edited March 18, 2013 by Keeping Up

[smileypete]

It could be that XP is limiting the 'half open' network connections which delays new connections being opened. There's a program called TCPZ downloadable from here:

 

http://deepxw.blogspot.co.uk/

 

the link to the earlier zip version leads to here:

 

http://soft2.wmzhe.com/download/deepxw/TCPZ_20090205b.zip

 

Then running this it shows the 'half open' connections on the upper graph in pink, if it's hitting 10 then it'll limit outgoing connections.

 

It's very unusual for this to cause a problem, normally it only happens when p2p programs are running.

 

Failing that, I'd suspect a web shield or firewall program or the remnants of.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited March 18, 2013 by smileypete

[Keeping Up]

Thanks Pete, I've tried that, the number showed as 4/4 which seems to suggest it's not that either; after some playing and closing the window of the TCPZ site I've now got it showing 2/8 which still seems OK.

 

It still seems strange that it's fine on other sites, and on the dongle (which it regards as a dialup connection) and that I'm not the only one with the problem. Plus the fact that it started on Saturday after I'd changed nothing, and still gave problems after rolling back to Wednesday's system restore point.

 

I can't think of any shields or firewall remnants that could be giving a problem either - I'm as puzzled as ever.

[Skye]

Ok something to try Allan.

 

Request a new password for the site and log in with this.

[Keeping Up]

A good suggestion Skye, but I get the same symptoms even if I'm not signed in.

[Skye]

reason I suggest this, is I never use IE, but went on it just to try a few things to help you. Not knowing my password I just went on as guest and it was very slow, painfully so.

I requested a new password to go on and inform you that I had the same problem, but when I got back on IE was just as fast as firefox and the password was the only thing I had done different!

[Keeping Up]

Thanks Skye.

 

It can't be just an IE problem, because I've loaded Firefox and the symptoms are absolutely identical.

 

I do have another login (as Telford the Dog) and I get the same symptoms when I am him.

 

Which Operating System are you on? It does look as if it only affects users on Windows XP.

[smileypete]

OK, if it's OK on the lappie and not the PC, one thing it could be is a packet length problem, as this is done on the OS level and the sender has a hand in it, it's explained somewhat technically here:

 

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/MTU.htm

 

So for starters if you'd like to check your router is pingable which helps prevent this problem, go to:

 

http://ping.eu/ping/

 

click on the number next to 'Your IP is...' then 'Go'

 

If it gets a reponse that's positive, but there's a few more things to try....

 

Download and run simple program called DrTCP, from here:

 

http://www.dslreports.com/drtcp

 

Then under 'Adapter Settings' select the connection used for internet access, then under 'Path MTU Discovery' select 'OFF'. Then for good measure under 'Black Hole Detection' select 'ON' and lastly bottom right set MTU to 576. Don't worry about the other settings for now.

 

Press save and reboot PC (doing a connection repair should do but best play safe), then try canalworld a few times again. Does it still slow down???

 

If nothing else I have to say Allan is a model help recipient!

 

cheers, Pete.

~smtp~

Edited March 19, 2013 by smileypete

[Keeping Up]

No, it doesn't appear to be pingable.

 

I'll have a look at the parameters given in the article and see what I can find.

 

ETA, First I'll try the things you suggested in your edit

Edited March 19, 2013 by Keeping Up

[Guest]

How much work would be involved in removing everything from your lappy re-formatting the HD and doing a completely fresh install of the OS and other programs.

 

I've resorted to this in the past when I've encountered a completely intractable problem but my lappy only has the OS on it and a few programs.

 

I figured the time and hassle spent trying to fix a single problem justified the work involved, took me about three hours in total from memory.

[Keeping Up]

How much work would be involved in removing everything from your lappy re-formatting the HD and doing a completely fresh install of the OS and other programs.

 

I've resorted to this in the past when I've encountered a completely intractable problem but my lappy only has the OS on it and a few programs.

 

I figured the time and hassle spent trying to fix a single problem justified the work involved, took me about three hours in total from memory.

 

I di that a year ago, it took me quite a while because it needs all the Dell drivers installed separately. I'd be tempted to go down that route if I was the only person affected, but as there are at least two others I will continue down this route (also it reminds me of my early days when we were trying to implement the first Experiimental Packet Switch Network in the 1970's).

 

It is just so intriguing, the way it only affects this site, on the lappy not the PC, and only on the broadband that works OK for the PC but is fine on the same lappy on a dongle, and that it started overnight when (as far as I know) nothing had changed here and it still doesn't work when I roll back the system to a time when I know everything worked.

[Richard Fairhurst]

OK, if it's OK on the lappie and not the PC, one thing it could be is a packet length problem, as this is done on the OS level and the sender has a hand in it, it's explained somewhat technically here:

 

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/MTU.htm

 

Ah, now, there's an idea. I used to have a problem with my Huawei dongle on a Mac - downloads were fine(ish) but it pretty much refused to upload anything. A sysadmin friend suggested adjusting the MTU and that did indeed fix it.

[Keeping Up]

OK, if it's OK on the lappie and not the PC, one thing it could be is a packet length problem, as this is done on the OS level and the sender has a hand in it, it's explained somewhat technically here:

 

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/MTU.htm

 

So for starters if you'd like to check your router is pingable which helps prevent this problem, go to:

 

http://ping.eu/ping/

 

click on the number next to 'Your IP is...' then 'Go'

 

If it gets a reponse that's positive, but there's a few more things to try....

 

Download and run simple program called DrTCP, from here:

 

http://www.dslreports.com/drtcp

 

Then under 'Adapter Settings' select the connection used for internet access, then under 'Path MTU Discovery' select 'OFF'. Then for good measure under 'Black Hole Detection' select 'ON' and lastly bottom right set MTU to 576. Don't worry about the other settings for now.

 

Press save and reboot PC (doing a connection repair should do but best play safe), then try canalworld a few times again. Does it still slow down???

 

If nothing else I have to say Allan is a model help recipient!

 

cheers, Pete.

~smtp~

 

 

DrTCP installed and ran OK. The two settings were set at "Default" and the MTU was blank.

 

Changing them as you suggested made no difference on either IE or Firefox

 

One thing I did notice, which may or may not be a red herring, is that the first couple of pages on CWDF that I visit after a complete restart, sometimes seem to work better. But that's a very time-consuming test to get a lot of quantifiable results from.

[GUMPY]

JFI

I have a very similar problem with XP, firefox and CWF

As I believe neilTNC did

I dont use laptop much now so have only just noticed it.

[smileypete]

DrTCP installed and ran OK. The two settings were set at "Default" and the MTU was blank.

 

Changing them as you suggested made no difference on either IE or Firefox

 

One thing I did notice, which may or may not be a red herring, is that the first couple of pages on CWDF that I visit after a complete restart, sometimes seem to work better. But that's a very time-consuming test to get a lot of quantifiable results from.

Seems to be a problem with the way the web browser or OS is requesting the server to return it's data, the packet length problem would likely affect bigger transfers like the html page itself but not smaller transfers.

 

Getting the router pingable from outside would help, it's usually in the router settings under something like Access control/ICMP/Allow from WAN and LAN. Once that's done, in DrTCP the 'Path MTU Discovery' and 'Black Hole Detection' can be set back to default and the MTU deleted, followed by a save.

 

As a rough and ready test you can tell if the packet sizes are working at their best by starting to download a test file in Firefox from eg:

 

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/download.html

http://www.cloudtestfiles.net/

 

If you download a ~200MB file and switch to the download window straight away, see if it builds up to max speed over 5-10 seconds, OR starts at max speed right away. If it starts at max speed straight away that's ideal. Then try the same on the PC for comparison.

 

Couple of wild card things to try would be an install of Portable Firefox or Portable Pale Moon which creates a separate install wherever you want which won't mess with your existing Firefox. Also maybe trying a wireless USB could help here in case the problem only affects the existing wireless connection.

 

It's still hard to 100% rule out some remnant of firewall software without doing a reinstall really, but maybe wait a while before reinstalling in case someone else finds something that'll sort it.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Keeping Up]

I don't think there's any way of making the router pingable; BT make it impossible to access low-level settings in the Home Hub.

 

Cloud test started straight away at full speed (430k) and maintained it, the PC was slightly faster at 470k presumably because it's on Ethernet.

 

The problem is exactly the same when I connect the lappy to the router by Ethernet instead of wireless, with the wireless card disabled, so it can't be a wireless problem. But remember it's perfectly OK on a USB Vodafone dongle.

 

I can't see that installing another Firefox such as Portable would help, would it, given that it's a brand-new clean installation that I only installed after I had all these problems with IE, and the symptoms are exactly the same on both browsers.

 

Given Julian's comments, in addition to the earlier ones from PaulD and Spannerman, it really does look like something that the host site is doing that is not compatible with XP, which it only started doing on Friday night.

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

Given Julian's comments, in addition to the earlier ones from PaulD and Spannerman, it really does look like something that the host site is doing that is not compatible with XP, which it only started doing on Friday night.

 

TBH, I only understand about one tenth of what's being said here, but to provide some contrary info (!), my Asus netbook on XP and IE8, ISP Plusnet, AVG free antivirus, has been absolutely fine, with no adjustments necessary right through.

[Keeping Up]

TBH, I only understand about one tenth of what's being said here, but to provide some contrary info (!), my Asus netbook on XP and IE8, ISP Plusnet, AVG free antivirus, has been absolutely fine, with no adjustments necessary right through.

 

Interesting. How do you connect to the internet (Cables, Fibre, or dongle?)

 

The other person who says he is getting through from an XP laptop with no problems, is our site host Daniel so he can't do any tests on the problem.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Interesting. How do you connect to the internet (Cables, Fibre, or dongle?)

 

The other person who says he is getting through from an XP laptop with no problems, is our site host Daniel so he can't do any tests on the problem.

 

Phone cable, router and wireless.

 

No-one seems to have mentioned the role of the ISP. Does it have one?

[Guest]

Interesting. How do you connect to the internet (Cables, Fibre, or dongle?)

 

The other person who says he is getting through from an XP laptop with no problems, is our site host Daniel so he can't do any tests on the problem.

 

Sorry Allan - I know I keep chipping in with possible rubbish suggestions -

 

But If Daniel's does and others do not does this not point to him have not having accepted the last updates to XP and you and others having done so (or the other way around). To me this feels like a typical 'post Windows Update' issue as in it suddenly occurred overnight.

 

Rather than do a system restore which I think you have tried have you tried specifically removing any updates that specifically preceded this via. control panel?

 

Sorry if this has been asked before in what has become a very lengthy thread!

[Mac of Cygnet]

Sorry Allan - I know I keep chipping in with possible rubbish suggestions -

 

But If Daniel's does and others do not does this not point to him have not having accepted the last updates to XP and you and others having done so (or the other way around). To me this feels like a typical 'post Windows Update' issue as in it suddenly occurred overnight.

 

Rather than do a system restore which I think you have tried have you tried specifically removing any updates that specifically preceded this via. control panel?

 

Sorry if this has been asked before in what has become a very lengthy thread!

 

I accepted the latest XP updates recently. No probs.

[Keeping Up]

Phone cable, router and wireless.

 

No-one seems to have mentioned the role of the ISP. Does it have one?

 

Yes the ISP is BT. The odd thing is that my desktop PC, on the same router and therefore the same ISP, has no problems at all

 

Sorry Allan - I know I keep chipping in with possible rubbish suggestions -

 

But If Daniel's does and others do not does this not point to him have not having accepted the last updates to XP and you and others having done so (or the other way around). To me this feels like a typical 'post Windows Update' issue as in it suddenly occurred overnight.

 

Rather than do a system restore which I think you have tried have you tried specifically removing any updates that specifically preceded this via. control panel?

 

Sorry if this has been asked before in what has become a very lengthy thread!

 

No please keep the suggestions coming. The sensible ones haven't cured the problem so a "possibly rubbish" suggestion is probably the answer.

 

There was a windows update on Tuesday night (12th) and since then there have been only daily pattern updates for the security (Windows essentials). The rollback definitely took out the pattern updates because I had to be quick to be sure I completed a couple of sets of tests before it automatically downloaded them again (you can't turn them off, annoyingly - but you can turn off its real-time protection, which I did) So the restore didn't take me back past the updates, however I do know the lappy was working fine for 3 days after the windows updates. I haven't tried rolling back to before them, but removing them does sound like a good thing to try so I shall do that and see what happens.

[smileypete]

I don't think there's any way of making the router pingable; BT make it impossible to access low-level settings in the Home Hub.

Aaah, might be worth borrowing and trying a non BT non ISP specific router, I sort of dislike the way they're locked down and not always very reliable.

 

Edit: Or better still take the lappie to someones house with a non BT ISP or a local coffee shop with wifi etc, could save a needless XP reinstall...

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited March 19, 2013 by smileypete

[Mac of Cygnet]

There was a windows update on Tuesday night (12th) and since then there have been only daily pattern updates for the security (Windows essentials).

 

Funny that. My updates came on Friday:

 

Windows XP Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool - March 2013 (KB890830) 15 March 2013 Automatic Updates

Windows XP Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer 8 for Windows XP (KB2809289) 15 March 2013 Automatic Updates

 

I installed these manually, as I always do. Nothing between Feb 14 and Mar 15

 

This hasn't anthing to do with Julius Caesar, has it?

Edited March 19, 2013 by Mac of Cygnet

[Mac of Cygnet]

Funny that. My updates came on Friday:

 

 

 

I installed these manually, as I always do. Nothing between Feb 14 and Mar 15

 

 

Apologies - I was notified of these on the 12th, but was too busy celebrating the boat passing the BSS!