backwards haha

[ditchcrawler]

It does. I've seen it happen

 

Plus there's the chance of finding treasure when you pull the mud weight up after dragging it along the canal bottom

Do you use a Sea searcher as a mud weight and how well does it work for going round bends?

[Bobbybass]

The best way to steer in reverse is with a pole on the bow

 

 

Hmmm..?

 

Would a Romanian do instead...?

[furnessvale]

It sort of works. A mud weight definitely works

 

Richard

 

I used a mudweight regularly while backing Alton from Furness Vale to the Bugsworth junction. A little tip though, use something like a sash weight as there is far less chance of it snagging and either bringing you to a shuddering halt or snapping your line.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

Do you use a Sea searcher as a mud weight?

 

IMO far too expensive to lose.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Tam & Di]

When where to start HOW ??

..... I failed In reverse the tiller straight it seems to go straight at slow revs anything above idle to half power is a mistery !!!!!! regards Martin

 

 

Most of the sensible things have been said - keep the revs fairly moderate, look forward at the whole length of the boat 95% of the time and react the very instant the fore end starts to swing. You will be able to tell from the alignment with the banks if you are going the right way, and just need to check occasionally. It sounds like you have a right handed prop, as the stern will then pull to port in reverse. So you will need to hold the tiller to your left slightly so the water flow during the backward motion of the boat will counteract that bias.

 

A couple of other points - one is do NOT at any time stand beside the tiller. The rudder can easily swing fiercely hard over, and take you into the canal! Another is that if you do get the boat moving nicely, don't make any abrupt changes to the rudder position or throttle - if you need to make changes do it very steadily or you will immediately lose control.

 

Another major element is the profile of the canal - if you get too close to one side where it is shallower the water flows to your prop and rudder will change and again you will lose control very quickly.

 

It's also sort of been said, but if/when you do lose control you will need to go back into head gear to straighten yourself out. Trouble is that sets up lots of water turbulence, so the more you have to do that, the more difficult you are making it to ever reverse in a straight line. Best to just sit down and weep quietly to yourself for a bit (or have a quick whiskey) before you try again.

 

(edit for a bit more clarity)

Edited November 18, 2012 by Tam & Di

[jonk]

Just thinking about this problem of reversing - has anyone tried using a 'sea anchor' (I think it is called) which is like a little parachute. While reversing it might keep the bow in line without the need of a mud anchor?

 

John

[Tam & Di]

Just thinking about this problem of reversing - has anyone tried using a 'sea anchor' (I think it is called) which is like a little parachute. While reversing it might keep the bow in line without the need of a mud anchor?

 

John

 

They often look something like a bottomless bucket, and made of canvas (or like a short windsock). The problem would be that it could easily snag on something. Also you would probably not get to move fast enough for it to be effective. Someone suggested something smooth like a sash weight used as a mud anchor, and that or even simply a short length of heavy chain on a line is probably the best suggestion.

[ditchcrawler]

They often look something like a bottomless bucket, and made of canvas (or like a short windsock). The problem would be that it could easily snag on something. Also you would probably not get to move fast enough for it to be effective. Someone suggested something smooth like a sash weight used as a mud anchor, and that or even simply a short length of heavy chain on a line is probably the best suggestion.

Wherries use to drop backwards through Gt. Yarmouth on the tide with a chain hung over the bows with masts and sails lowered.

[Titan]

Most of the sensible things have been said - keep the revs fairly moderate, look forward at the whole length of the boat 95% of the time and react the very instant the fore end starts to swing. You will be able to tell from the alignment with the banks if you are going the right way, and just need to check occasionally. It sounds like you have a right handed prop, as the stern will then pull to port in reverse. So you will need to hold the tiller to your left slightly so the water flow during the backward motion of the boat will counteract that bias.

 

A couple of other points - one is do NOT at any time stand beside the tiller. The rudder can easily swing fiercely hard over, and take you into the canal! Another is that if you do get the boat moving nicely, don't make any abrupt changes to the rudder position or throttle - if you need to make changes do it very steadily or you will immediately lose control.

 

Another major element is the profile of the canal - if you get too close to one side where it is shallower the water flows to your prop and rudder will change and again you will lose control very quickly.

 

It's also sort of been said, but if/when you do lose control you will need to go back into head gear to straighten yourself out. Trouble is that sets up lots of water turbulence, so the more you have to do that, the more difficult you are making it to ever reverse in a straight line. Best to just sit down and weep quietly to yourself for a bit (or have a quick whiskey) before you try again.

 

(edit for a bit more clarity)

 

Thanks To all for your input, I wonder as still fitting out and very high up at the bow due to dry tanks and no gas bottles etc if this makes a diffrence? I shall be concentrating on the elecrics now until christmas so wil do some more practice in the new year??? thanks again Martin

[Proper Job]

My manual bow thruster starts getting pretty angry after 10 minutes or so poling one side then the next.

You could try suggesting that the manual bow thruster is doing it wrong (often not a good idea)

 

It usually only needs the slightest nudge or you end up having to correct over enthusiasm by constanly switching sides

 

Get you bowthruster to try trailing the pole in the water while leaning on it

 

Or get a mudweight

 

Richard

Do not use the manual bow thruster as a mud weight (again, another bad move)

[lucas88]

This total lack of handling in reverse is a combination of several factors. Depending on hull shape, propeller dia/mass and rudder size/position determines severity of the individual factor. Therefore, below only the factors (in random order)

1-Wheel effect (of the propeller): If a mass is rotating in a certain direction and you change the rotation, a third axis moment is created pulling the ships out of course. You feel this also when you throttle down in forward, but then even without knowing you correct this with your rudder, which works very efficient in forward (with the propeller thrust flowing over it) For this reason, high powered/high speed ships/crafts, are fitted with counter-rotation engines/shafts/propellers.

2-Rotation direction of the propeller: Due to the rotation of the propeller, the thrust is not straight. With clockwise rotation, in forward, the stern is "pushed" slightly to starboard. But also here, when boating forward, this is easily (unconsciously) corrected with the rudder. In reverse (now with CCW rotation of prop) the aft is pulled slightly to port. In reverse though, with no flow of water over the rudder, this can hardly (if at all..) be corrected.

3-Rudder: A rudder only works when there is water flowing past it. In forward, with the propeller right in front, the flow of propeller water ensures swift/powerfull response of the rudder. In reverse you have to wait for the whole ship to actually move backwards in order for the rudder to have any effect. So even when your engine is in reverse, as long as the boat is still moving forward, you rudder will react as if moving forward (so cotrary what you would expect)

 

These effects can never be eliminated, but you can use them to your advantage. As long as you know which direction and how fierce they are. Especially when approaching a quay to berth, I now approach over port in a 45 degr angle, and the a gentle reverse pulls the ship paralel.

 

What also helped me was a 1000 kg of ballast. The added mass dampened the effects and gave me more draft and more thrust(less cavitation on prop in reverse)

 

However, there is no substitute for practice. I almost sold my boat after the maiden voyage (which included a collision at a bridge due to the non-responsiveness in reverse....) But now after the ballast and practice its a piece of cake (most of the time..) Only with sidewinds its still a nightmare.

 

Anyway, good luck.

R

Lucas

Edited November 25, 2012 by lucas88