LoopyLou Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I am hoping someone might be able to help me. We have recently purchased a rather sad neglected 1975 ex hire narrowboat. We have had a survey and the hull was in great condition even though the poor boat was in an awful state. It has a GRP top which is in reasonable condition and surveyor suggested we leave it rather than replace with steel. The big question is no one seems to know who built it and we would love to find out. Most suggest Harborough Marine but no one is sure. A local engineer said he has seen similar boats around. We are hoping someone on here may know the answer It has two unusual features a very distinctive high bow which sweeps upwards quite dramatically and the gas holders built into the back of the boat. Any ideas? http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187317133/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187317675/in/photostream The Hull has been measured at 5.2/ 5.8mm all over and I have heard that when these were built they were built with only a 6mm base plate through the 1970's. After all these years seem very small amount of corrosion? It has not even been blacked in over 10 years! We are getting conflicting advise on whether to replate or not. With majority saying don't touch was built with good quality English steel. Thanks so much and look forward to hearing from you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 The front end looks very Harborough Marineish but the back end doesn't and I haven't seen anything like it before either. I would definitely not be considering overplating a hull that has so little wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) I am hoping someone might be able to help me. We have recently purchased a rather sad neglected 1975 ex hire narrowboat. We have had a survey and the hull was in great condition even though the poor boat was in an awful state. It has a GRP top which is in reasonable condition and surveyor suggested we leave it rather than replace with steel. The big question is no one seems to know who built it and we would love to find out. Most suggest Harborough Marine but no one is sure. A local engineer said he has seen similar boats around. We are hoping someone on here may know the answer It has two unusual features a very distinctive high bow which sweeps upwards quite dramatically and the gas holders built into the back of the boat. Any ideas? http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187317133/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187317675/in/photostream The Hull has been measured at 5.2/ 5.8mm all over and I have heard that when these were built they were built with only a 6mm base plate through the 1970's. After all these years seem very small amount of corrosion? It has not even been blacked in over 10 years! We are getting conflicting advise on whether to replate or not. With majority saying don't touch was built with good quality English steel. Thanks so much and look forward to hearing from you all Bijou line? Tim Edit - not enough sweep for Harborough, IMO. Edited November 15, 2012 by Timleech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I am hoping someone might be able to help me. We have recently purchased a rather sad neglected 1975 ex hire narrowboat. <SNIP> Stick you boats name and index number in here - and it MAY tell you - http://www.jim-shead.com/waterways/boats.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albion Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Edit - not enough sweep for Harborough, IMO. Tend to agree Tim. Didn't Harboroughs have a slightly larger front deck (where the T stud is) made out of chequer plate as well? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Not a lot to go on there - any pictures of the whole boat ? From the small part visible of the front of the GRP cabin, I'm wondering if that part at least may have come from the Teddesley Boating Centre at Parkgate Lock, Near Penkridge. Certainly those curved cutaways to the sides are very "Teddesley-like. The hull, I don't know about, but the very distinctive transom sterm with those gas bottle tunnels should identify it to someone. I don't know if Teddesley ever built in that style, but the record shows they did change hull designs quite a lot. It is possible that the hull is theirs, but equally I think they supplied GRP tops to go onto other builders steelwork. EDITED TO ADD: I don't think either the hull, or the small part of the cabin top visible, show any Harborough Marine features - I feel sure they are not involved. Also looking up "Bijou Line" that Tim mentioned, as they operated from Penkridge Wharf (apparently), I'm wondering if Teddesley Boating Centre was the builder for them anyway ? FURTHER EDIT: That way of locating gas bottles in the rear is shared by some Dartline boats - but I don't think this is one of those either. Edited November 15, 2012 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 At first sight, the pointy end shape yells "Harborough", but most of theirs had (as noted above) about three feet of chequer-plated decking at the prow. I believe that this covered the water tank - which would explain the position of the gas cylinders. There was another '70s builder whose boats looked like Harboroughs - and which I think were built nearby. Of course, unlike cars, n/b's were not built on a production line so there were design variations from one boat to another within the same company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Not a lot to go on there - any pictures of the whole boat ? From the small part visible of the front of the GRP cabin, I'm wondering if that part at least may have come from the Teddesley Boating Centre at Parkgate Lock, Near Penkridge. Certainly those curved cutaways to the sides are very "Teddesley-like. The hull, I don't know about, but the very distinctive transom sterm with those gas bottle tunnels should identify it to someone. I don't know if Teddesley ever built in that style, but the record shows they did change hull designs quite a lot. It is possible that the hull is theirs, but equally I think they supplied GRP tops to go onto other builders steelwork. EDITED TO ADD: I don't think either the hull, or the small part of the cabin top visible, show any Harborough Marine features - I feel sure they are not involved. Also looking up "Bijou Line" that Tim mentioned, as they operated from Penkridge Wharf (apparently), I'm wondering if Teddesley Boating Centre was the builder for them anyway ? FURTHER EDIT: That way of locating gas bottles in the rear is shared by some Dartline boats - but I don't think this is one of those either. Yes, AFAIR Bijou was the hire side of Teddesley, though I don't really know what exact business connection there was. Peter Jones, who started Midland Chandlers, had some involvement I think. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 At first sight, the pointy end shape yells "Harborough", but most of theirs had (as noted above) about three feet of chequer-plated decking at the prow. I believe that this covered the water tank - which would explain the position of the gas cylinders. There was another '70s builder whose boats looked like Harboroughs - and which I think were built nearby. Of course, unlike cars, n/b's were not built on a production line so there were design variations from one boat to another within the same company. Fernie Fabrications, Black Prince, (and at least one more I'm struggling to name, I think), all produced Harborough Marine inspired boats. However I never say a single example with anything other than a very elliptical counter, and certainly nothing like the largely flat transom stern pictured here. Plus the bows are not right. Plus boats from those builders that had GRP cabin tops did not have those huge curved cutaways to the sides. I'd be very surprised if this is Harborough, or any of the Harborough clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Gotcha! A Fernie, I reckon - though some of their shells were fitted out by Derek Hucker and sold under his company name of North Kilworth Marine (which was the name I was trying to think of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeping Up Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Don't know who it is but I'd definitely say it isn't a Harborough or their similar copy which IIRC was made by Fernie of Northampton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Edit - not enough sweep for Harborough, IMO. I agree. I did wonder about Dartline, with the shape of the bit of cabin we can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Yes, AFAIR Bijou was the hire side of Teddesley, though I don't really know what exact business connection there was. Peter Jones, who started Midland Chandlers, had some involvement I think. Well Teddesley had their own hire fleet too in the mid 1970s - I know because I hired from them. Something I have just found implies Bijou also built boats as well as operated them, so maybe there is a connection maybe not, I'm not sure. As one seems to be Parkgate Lock, and the other Penkridge Wharf, I don't think it was all co-located, anyway. Unfortunately Bijou ads of the period feature rater poor artists impressions, not real boats, so no good for comparing a real boat to, really! The boat picture doesn't have the large bladed stem of Teddesley boats from perhaps rather earlier, and the one we hired also had a conventional elliptical counter. But look at the style of the cabin front..... Gotcha! A Fernie, I reckon - though some of their shells were fitted out by Derek Hucker and sold under his company name of North Kilworth Marine (which was the name I was trying to think of). Hucker is the final name I was looking for when thinking of Harborough Clones. I never saw a Harborough or a Harborough Clone with a back end vaguely like that shown here. Nor a cabin front like that shown here. Anyway by 1975, I believe Fernie were building all steel shells, not ones with GRP tops. I may have to eat my words later, but I really really don't think it is! Edited November 15, 2012 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) How typical of this forum: either I or Mr. Up has got it completely wrong! I believe that in 1975 (the date of the OP's boat apparently) Fernie were still in Market Harborough, at premises in Fernie Road in that town. They moved to Northampton after the council gave them notice to quit. Alan, the cut-outs at the front of the Teddesley's superstructure are not the same shape as those of the OIP's (though there is some similarity - quite a few boats from that period had the curved shape, ideal for tripping over as you left the well deck), and the prow is very different. Edited November 15, 2012 by Athy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) How typical of this forum: either I or Mr. Up has got it completely wrong! I believe that in 1975 (the date of the OP's boat apparently) Fernie were still in Market Harborough, at premises in Fernie Road in that town. They moved to Northampton after the council gave them notice to quit. For once you can both be right! Forum harmony! Advert in April 1975 Waterways World shows Fernie Steel Fabrications at Fernie Road, market Harborough, but the June 1975 edition says that from 20th May they will have moved to The Wharf, Old Towcester Road, Cotton Wharf, Northampton. Both adverts however say "steel superstructures" so if the boat in the OP is a 1975 build, I don't think it is a Fernie. The hire boat pictured in the averts (Anne Boleyn, which I think was a Blisworth Tunnel Boats one), is very conventional round sterned, and nowt like the one that is the subject of this thread. Alan, the cut-outs at the front of the Teddesley's superstructure are not the same shape as those of the OIP's (though there is some similarity - quite a few boats from that period had the curved shape, ideal for tripping over as you left the well deck), and the prow is very different. It would help if Loupy Lou could post more pictures, to include the whole superstructure, windows and grab rails. Also tell us the boats name, in case that gives any clues. I'm sure someone will pop up and say "that back end belongs to a .........", because I think that is the clincher. Edited November 15, 2012 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I have just noticed that the OP's link leads to a series of seven photos, the extreme left-hand one of which shows the side of the stern and reveals it to be a most distinctive angled shape - the likes of which I HAVE seen before but I'm jiggered if I can think where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I have just noticed that the OP's link leads to a series of seven photos, the extreme left-hand one of which shows the side of the stern and reveals it to be a most distinctive angled shape - the likes of which I HAVE seen before but I'm jiggered if I can think where. I think she is uploading more - there was only 2 to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I have just noticed that the OP's link leads to a series of seven photos, the extreme left-hand one of which shows the side of the stern and reveals it to be a most distinctive angled shape - the likes of which I HAVE seen before but I'm jiggered if I can think where. It does now - it didn't about 20 minutes ago, so I think Loupy Lou is adding more photos as we speak. I'm not saying it is Teddesley, or Teddesley derivative, but I doi think at least the top, including that substantial looking rear hatch, has many similarities. Here's a Teddesley advert from 1975, in case it jogs any thoughts with Loupy Lou.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoopyLou Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Thank you all so much I have enjoying all your responses. Its like a treasure hunt As we have been sanding her we have noticied some paint coming through. It would look like she had a spade on both ends of the boat. The surveyor said he remembers a hire company called "ace of spades" and wonders if that had anything to do with her. We believe her original colours was Navy Blue and the roof has a number of colours red / dark green / light blue / grey / red I have been out and taken more photos and uploaded them to flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187463933/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187464205/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187464441/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8188544492/in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8187465021/in/photostream The previous owner said "we believe she was made in Yorkshire possibly at or around Stamford Bridge" Her name is MEMETTE which we dont know where it originated and registration number 076364 She has been in Whixall for at least the last 10 years I really would love to know more about her history and really appreciate all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanM Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) From Jim Shead's site... MEMETTE Built by SOWERBY - Length 13.72 metres (45 feet ) - Beam 2.07 metres (6 feet 9 inches ) - Draft 0.01 metres ( ) Metal hull, power of 29 BHP. Registered with British Waterways number 76364 as a Powered. Last registration recorded on 20-Apr-2012. Edited November 15, 2012 by IanM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hoorah! A greeno for you, detective inspector. That would be Sowerby Boats, the Fernie copyists, of course.... Loopy, the shape visible under the paintwork is a quite common canal motif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proper Job Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Sowery Bridge, West Yorkshire, possibly ex hire: link Kind of all fits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoopyLou Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Is the boat builder register with british waterways (the trust) from new? The other day buried under alot of rubbish we found a few books. The Manuel for the Lister LPW(s)3 which has been run under water and now terminally ill. If anyone knows where I can get one for her would love to hear from you. The other is a West Yorkshire Waterways Guide with "Shire Cruisers Please Leave" written on the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 That would be Sowerby Boats, the Fernie copyists, of course.... Very good! There can't have been a lot of demand for those Fernie copies, (or they have not lasted very well), as Jim Shead only shows one other boat built by Sowerby (Marine). (And that's only 26 feet long - unusual in Fernie clone!). Is the boat builder register with british waterways (the trust) from new? The other day buried under alot of rubbish we found a few books. The Manuel for the Lister LPW(s)3 which has been run under water and now terminally ill. If anyone knows where I can get one for her would love to hear from you. The other is a West Yorkshire Waterways Guide with "Shire Cruisers Please Leave" written on the front A Lister LPWS3, (if that is really what is fitted), cannot be the original engine for a 1975 built boat. Those engines did not come into production until more like the late 1980s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoopyLou Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 This is so exciting. I suppose I should ask the question. Do they build good boats? Bit late to ask now we have brought her :-) The Waterways Guide with writing on http://www.flickr.com/photos/76958719@N04/8188665064/in/photostream Do you think they keep history of their boat? Is it worth asking them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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