Diesel Heater - Discuss!

[Titan]

I have read this thread with intrest, i presently have a kabola old english keeping boat warm whilst doing the fit out etc, so far kabola heats well but the yellow flame causes a fair soot build up. if i run on half or above it seems to burn cleaner but to hot. As part of my fit out ive bought a second hand mx40 to run rads and water for a 58 foot boat, should i run the mx40 off the engine fuel tank? or utilise the existing bow tank which feeds the kabola? could i site the mx40 in the bow even ?? guess voltdrop would be an issue ? sorry about the questions, all advice gracefully received thankyou martin

[sharpness]

As part of my fit out ive bought a second hand mx40 to run rads and water for a 58 foot boat, should i run the mx40 off the engine fuel tank? or utilise the existing bow tank which feeds the kabola? could i site the mx40 in the bow even ?? guess voltdrop would be an issue ? sorry about the questions, all advice gracefully received thankyou martin

I put the MX40 under the engine boards on our trad. The Delphi aglomerator thingy in the engine fuel line had a spare outlet so I used that. Never had any problem with it. The MX40 is about level with the bottom of the fuel tank.

 

Steve

[Arthur Brown]

For a fleet, I'd look at the supplier who could offer the best support package. Their heater will go wrong sometime, and you will have to get it working in a hurry.

 

Get the installation right to the book and possibly get the maker to approve it.

 

Keep a small stock of spares and see which maker will train one of your staff to service and repair their heaters.

 

Possibly consider home heating kerosene as fuel or as a fuel additive in colder months.

[Midnight]

I fitted a Mikuni MX60 4 rads and calorifer 8 years ago on our 57' narrowboat. During the first year it had lots of coking problems which were cured by swapping the TP5 room stat supplied with a Webasto type programmable timer - since then everything has more or less been tickety-boo.

 

The MX60 is very easy to service DIY once a year and fairly inexpensive too. Every few years I send it to Mikuni for a workshop overhaul which costs around £120.

 

We don't winterise the boat as we visit every other weekend so it's programmed to run twice a day for an hour. I would like to find a way of adding a stat so that it doesn't run when the temperature is above freezing but I would need to work out a wiring system probably using relays to prevent any possibility of cycling. Maybe mounting the stat switch externally or inside a mushroom vent and ensuring that once a program started it ran through to completion.

 

Talking to other boaters the Webasto seems to be a good product too - not sure how easy it is to service. I have a colleague who had an Eberspacher and went through a lot of pain and expense before he tackled the Eberspacher stand at a show. They gave him a brand new unit for free even though they said the one he had fitted was over-specced for his boat.

[smileypete]

We don't winterise the boat as we visit every other weekend so it's programmed to run twice a day for an hour. I would like to find a way of adding a stat so that it doesn't run when the temperature is above freezing but I would need to work out a wiring system probably using relays to prevent any possibility of cycling. Maybe mounting the stat switch externally or inside a mushroom vent and ensuring that once a program started it ran through to completion.

Maybe an easy way would be to fit one of those £10 heating controllers on Ebay, they have a variable hysteresis setting, - the temp difference between switch on and switch off.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221147036126

 

So it could be set up say to switch the heating on at 1°C and off at 6°C. Also the probe can be calibrated, ice water would do.

 

Another way is to use a pipe thermostat and latch relay, so the heater runs at least until it's fully warmed up.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[bargemast]

I have read this thread with intrest, i presently have a kabola old english keeping boat warm whilst doing the fit out etc, so far kabola heats well but the yellow flame causes a fair soot build up. if i run on half or above it seems to burn cleaner but to hot. As part of my fit out ive bought a second hand mx40 to run rads and water for a 58 foot boat, should i run the mx40 off the engine fuel tank? or utilise the existing bow tank which feeds the kabola? could i site the mx40 in the bow even ?? guess voltdrop would be an issue ? sorry about the questions, all advice gracefully received thankyou martin

 

 

If you have a yellow flame, your heater isn't burning properly, the flame should be blue and while burning like that, should give no (or hardly any) soot.

 

Peter.

[Robbo]

Maybe an easy way would be to fit one of those £10 heating controllers on Ebay, they have a variable hysteresis setting, - the temp difference between switch on and switch off.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221147036126

 

So it could be set up say to switch the heating on at 1°C and off at 6°C. Also the probe can be calibrated, ice water would do.

 

Another way is to use a pipe thermostat and latch relay, so the heater runs at least until it's fully warmed up.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

A delay timer would be easier to wire up, basically if the thermostat switches on the delay timer keeps it on for a few hours.

 

A delay timer would be easier to wire up, basically if the thermostat switches on the delay timer keeps it on for a few hours.

 

This looks like it could do the job

http://www.suntekstore.co.uk/goods.php?id=14002896&utm_source=gbuk

[Midnight]

Maybe an easy way would be to fit one of those £10 heating controllers on Ebay, they have a variable hysteresis setting, - the temp difference between switch on and switch off.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221147036126

 

So it could be set up say to switch the heating on at 1°C and off at 6°C. Also the probe can be calibrated, ice water would do.

 

Another way is to use a pipe thermostat and latch relay, so the heater runs at least until it's fully warmed up.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

 

The heating controller would still cause cycling only at longer intervals - I really want the stat to just energise the timer so that it only starts a program when the 'frost' temperature is met but the CH runs until the timer switches off. If the stat only measured the outside temperature it would always be in the on position whilst the cold spell lasted and the timer would do it's job. I could set the programmes for longer periods and over the winter the costs would average out around the current £9 - £10 per week.

 

I'll look at the options recommended here to see if anything will do the job.

[Bee]

The type of fuel used in these things is a bit of a red (or white) herring, I have had 20 years of using them in mobile libraries with fresh white diesel and the installation done by experts and they still give trouble eventualy. But as mentioned by others it is important to run them turned up high, with proper wiring to avoid any chance of voltage drop and with clean fuel to avoid the major problem of them coking up. In the end we resorted to specifying two in each van on the basis of one working and one being fixed, after a year or two it was seldom that they both worked at the same time. In your position of having to use them in a fleet I would strongly advise having a spare to use as an instant fix, they are easy to swap if you can get to them and you can fix the broken one in daylight and in the workshop.They are ok for a winter or two but durable they are not.

[Midnight]

I'm no electrician but someone out there maybe able to tell me if this would work

 

 

If the temperature is above the 'frost' setting on the stat the time switch doesn't switch the boiler on

If it's cold the stat makes the connection so when the time switch is on the boiler fires

If the stat switches off during a timed program the relay keeps the connection and the boiler continues to run until the program ends and the timer switches off

 

Is that feasible?

If so can anyone suggest a simple stat switch that would fit inside a mushroom vent mabe there's one that doesn't need to be powered?

 

Edited: to add manual overide switch to diagram

Edited January 17, 2013 by Midnight

[smileypete]

I think all the timer relay does is switch a couple of changeover contacts a variable period of time after power is applied to the coil, until or unless power is removed from the coil.

 

So it might not work as you're expecting it to, and would need an extra relay to act as a latch; the timer relay would then break the latch after the period of time.

 

Am not sure where/why the propex timer comes in, is it because you only want to run the heater at certain times of day so not to disturb neighbours?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Midnight]

I think all the timer relay does is switch a couple of changeover contacts a variable period of time after power is applied to the coil, until or unless power is removed from the coil.

 

So it might not work as you're expecting it to, and would need an extra relay to act as a latch; the timer relay would then break the latch after the period of time.

 

Am not sure where/why the propex timer comes in, is it because you only want to run the heater at certain times of day so not to disturb neighbours?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

It's not a timer relay just a relay switch.

 

When we are not able to visit I only want to CH to run when the temperature drops to frost level but I want it to be switched on/off by the Proxex time switch i.e. twice a day for an hour or so to keep the boat warm enough to avoid frost damage.

 

If the temperature rises and the stat switches off during a programmed CH period I want the Mikuni to complete the programmed period before the Protex switches it off. Even if the stat switched on and off several times the CH shouldn't run until the next scheduled program hence avoiding the destructive cycling which causes coking problems.

 

Where would the 'latch' relay fit into it?