Boat age

[boathunter]

Looking through the ads it seems there are a disproportionate number of 1989 boats on the market - literally hundreds.

 

What gives? Is it people getting shot before they reach the magic 25 year age where the insurance demands surveys?

[Lady Muck]

nail/head/hit

[boathunter]

so is it safe to assume once the magic 25 is reached, one can suddenly whack a chunk off the price to offset this? It's not like they all suddenly fall to pieces and sink at this age is it?

[Lady Muck]

Well, I'm not sure about that but there are 1989/1990/1991 boats on the Duck at the moment for sale for a good deal more money than we paid for our boat when she was five years old (she is 9 years old now).

 

I suppose you could find out cost of drydock/survey/reblacking and try and barter that off at least.

 

And maybe speak to some insurers and find out their requirements?

 

My main advice is to take your time and shop around because it;s a buyers market and there are good deals whatever your budget if you are patient. Starcoaster got a very good deal on her boat. Two of my marina neighbours got amazing deals.

[John V]

It's ALWAYS about condition whatever the age.

[Arthur Brown]

Sometimes it's a guess based on opinion. My old boat was reputedly an ex pilot cutter, no date no plates. the only things like it are old Thorneycrofts. It suddenly gained some "papers" when BW first issued pressed metal number plates, but that was well into it's "old age"!

[OldGoldy]

Looking through the ads it seems there are a disproportionate number of 1989 boats on the market - literally hundreds.

 

What gives? Is it people getting shot before they reach the magic 25 year age where the insurance demands surveys?

 

Not all insurers insist on a survey at 25yo.

 

 

ETA rearrange words to make sense

Edited October 23, 2012 by dave69700

[boathunter]

Thanks Dave, I'm learning, learning, learning - there are so many aspects of boat ownership to take in and balance.

[Keeping Up]

If someone was selling their boat to avoid having a survey, because they were afraid that it would reveal a problem, then the survey which any sane buyer commissioned would almost certainly reveal the same problem anyway

[boathunter]

I think it might be more to avoid the hassle of having a survey rather than just the cost? (I have noted not all ins co's require this). Infinitely more trouble than just quoting your card number over the phone.

 

Sorry to go on, but if it's not for this reason has anyone any other ideas as to why so many 1989 boats are on the market?

 

More conjecture:

It does strike me that perhaps another problem is re-sale - keep it half a dozen years and it'll be 30. Much of the market for NB's appears to be newbies like myself with limited of no experience and we tend to sway on the safe side and be wary of a 30 year old boat, possibly just through gut feeling and ignorance. Many of the sellers have had a good retirement innings on their boats but have decided it's time to move to dry land. Thus the wheel keeps rolling.

 

As pointed out above, condition is more important than age - that's something perhaps an experienced boater has a gut feeling for, but not us newbies - there's always going to be some doubt, survey or no survey. Different worlds, but I have zero faith in a house survey for instance, so full of get-out clauses one wonders if they really do anything but describe exactly what I can see easily for myself.

 

[Lady Muck]

We see most problems with new boaters buying old boats where the boat is about 25 to 30 years old and the buyer has neither had a survey nor bothered even getting the boat out of the water to get it reblacked. It's like they don't want to know whats going on and would rather pretend that it's all going to be ok. Then when it does eventually start taking on water it's too late. Sometimes the condition is beyond saving as there is nothing worth overplating onto. Very sad when it's someones home and they've spent up but it happens again and again. We get one sinking up here every winter freeze without fail.

Even if the boat is a giveaway price and not worth forking out for a surveyor, if it was me buying her I'd be booking the drydock for a day and asking the people I know up there for their opinion.

If it's a Springer then exercise even more caution coz these are now not young boats and if they weren't looked after they could be knackered and might be beyond overplating.

[Titan]

I think it might be more to avoid the hassle of having a survey rather than just the cost? (I have noted not all ins co's require this). Infinitely more trouble than just quoting your card number over the phone.

 

Sorry to go on, but if it's not for this reason has anyone any other ideas as to why so many 1989 boats are on the market?

 

More conjecture:

It does strike me that perhaps another problem is re-sale - keep it half a dozen years and it'll be 30. Much of the market for NB's appears to be newbies like myself with limited of no experience and we tend to sway on the safe side and be wary of a 30 year old boat, possibly just through gut feeling and ignorance. Many of the sellers have had a good retirement innings on their boats but have decided it's time to move to dry land. Thus the wheel keeps rolling.

 

As pointed out above, condition is more important than age - that's something perhaps an experienced boater has a gut feeling for, but not us newbies - there's always going to be some doubt, survey or no survey. Different worlds, but I have zero faith in a house survey for instance, so full of get-out clauses one wonders if they really do anything but describe exactly what I can see easily for myself.

 

 

 

Hi There

I think even as a newbie the more boats you look at the more you will quiclky learn and start to realise whats what. I perhaps became quite a gongoozler over a couple of years visiting marinas in and around the country, dreaming .. This was in reality was a dream as financially as i couldnt see me ever affording a n/b. But the days spent werent wasted. From old damp wrecks,romantic views with boatmans cabins,smelly engine ols or modern plasti type caravan interior boats each one you look at and poke around in will allow you to learn something. And the people you will encounter will feed you with in depth knowledge, some who cover up things i think youl be able to spot soon enough. Our boat is 1993, it was in dry dock back in march, where i asked the yard to specificly examine the hull. I was prepared to have it tested for thickness ultrasonicly, once blasted clean the yard phoned me and said, not to spend money on thickness testing as in my case simply not necessary.

 

I wish you luck in your search, and enjoy the viewings, spend time on the boats you view, open every cupboard and draw, look in places you cant? and you will find the right one for you and your budget. Lol mine was found at the bottom of the river seven regards Martin

[boathunter]

We see most problems with new boaters buying old boats where the boat is about 25 to 30 years old and the buyer has neither had a survey nor bothered even getting the boat out of the water to get it reblacked. It's like they don't want to know whats going on and would rather pretend that it's all going to be ok. Then when it does eventually start taking on water it's too late. Sometimes the condition is beyond saving as there is nothing worth overplating onto. Very sad when it's someones home and they've spent up but it happens again and again. We get one sinking up here every winter freeze without fail.

Even if the boat is a giveaway price and not worth forking out for a surveyor, if it was me buying her I'd be booking the drydock for a day and asking the people I know up there for their opinion.

If it's a Springer then exercise even more caution coz these are now not young boats and if they weren't looked after they could be knackered and might be beyond overplating.

No worries LM, I was referring to the hassle of a survey in future years to obtain insurance. There's no way I'm going to spend perhaps £40K-£50K without having it out of the water first and given a thorough going over. On this subject I think I'll avoid any 2K painted boats as it's my understanding they filler up any pitting before doing it thus hiding it for another few years. Might not always be the case of course, but you could never know for sure if it was a cover-up or genuine atempt to save the bi-annual blacking.

[OldGoldy]

Looking through the ads it seems there are a disproportionate number of 1989 boats on the market - literally hundreds.

 

What gives? Is it people getting shot before they reach the magic 25 year age where the insurance demands surveys?

 

I wonder if it has anything to do with the post-war baby boom, and those buyers are now giving up boating through age related-illness, or those same folk are losing their parents and are using their inheritance to replace their 'old' boats.

 

Who knows?

[boathunter]

Thanks for the tips Titan and all.

 

We (my son and I) will be living on the boat. We have a home mooring but I want to CC for maybe 8 months of the year until I run out of cash which could be 5-10 years, so we need to be a self-sufficient unit. I don't anticipate ever having a land-line or handy shower block/laundrette etc.

 

I have the spec of the boat in my minds eye already. To get 2 seperate "living" areas - one for me and one for grown up son, I will almost certainly have to have a boatman's (or back) cabin. That way we can be at either end of the boat with privacy when we want it (more for him - what 21 yr old wants to be stuck in a tiny space with dad!). I'm a little sad he'll end up with the back cabin TBH.

 

Boats of this type I've seen have so far been built by a renowned hull builder and fitted out to keep up with the quality, BUT they tend to be 23-30 years old and still asking £50K+ which I'm told is quite a lot for such an age and this is why I started this thread. Maybe not though - quality is quality and they've all been clearly and continuously looked after and cherished. I'm guessing this is mainly due to them having been high-end of the market boats when new so perhaps the price is just reflecting that, because i've also seen newer boats that were comparitively poor quality and had an "abandoned" feel about them for similar prices.

 

I've looked at a few boats with different layouts, 99% of which I have a quick sprint from one end to the other and think "No way Jose".

 

I would like some proper boaty style,

a good hull,

quality "boaty" hardwood plank fit out,

seperate engine room - the ones I've seen have been dry and clean, I'm not bothered about the engine type, but I do like mechanical things and these type of boats generally have an interesting engine with some space for tools and a small work bench,

an in-built 3KW+ 240v genny if possible would be a bonus so I don't have to run the engine to do laundry, run power tools and the like,

solid fuel stove with back-boiler and a rad or two,

Maybe a eber for a quick warm up but I have a petrol one in my camper and it eats fuel and batteries so 50/50 on this. It's old however and just on/off on a thermostat. I think the repeated glow-plug start-ups don't help the leccy consumption. More modern ones I gather turn themsleves up and down to control the heat?

piles of batteries,

a small bath under the shower,

small galley,

space for washing machine/drier,

several ways to heat water, an instant water heater if possible - wall mounted gas type if you know what I mean.

permanent double (not cross-boat pull-out) preferably the other side of the bathroom from back cabin.

a nice little cratch covered area

I THINK I want pump out as I won't be in a marina.

 

Stuff like cooker, fridge, white goods, kitchen surface finish, tiling, are neither here nor there.

I absolutely don't want someone's atempt to make a loft apartment in a steel tube.

 

This boat does almost exist - I've seen a couple that 90% fitted the bill and appreciate I'd be lucky not to have to compromise a bit. But is what I'm describing worth the money they go for? Or am I paying a "scene tax" for back cabin/engine room style.

 

I joined this forum a month ago and that coincided with me actually starting to seriously think about this malarky other than just having a vague dream of peace and tranquility escapism. Well, the forum has wised me up a bit on that score at least. Not going to happen is it? It seems the cut is as full of the wide variety of human beings as the rest of the world, but at least everyone has ONE thing in common, so there's community of sorts. Beats living in a house for that alone.

 

Must pull my finger out and sell the house now. It's ripe for a developer so should be gone in a jiffy leaving me to buy an iced up boat, stuck somewhere for the winter due to winter canal closures - another reason for a reasonably self-sufficient boat from the off.

 

I'd be lost without this forum - it would have taken me years to find out what I've found out in just a month. Onwards and upwards.

[Titan]

Thanks for the tips Titan and all.

 

We (my son and I) will be living on the boat. We have a home mooring but I want to CC for maybe 8 months of the year until I run out of cash which could be 5-10 years, so we need to be a self-sufficient unit. I don't anticipate ever having a land-line or handy shower block/laundrette etc.

 

I have the spec of the boat in my minds eye already. To get 2 seperate "living" areas - one for me and one for grown up son, I will almost certainly have to have a boatman's (or back) cabin. That way we can be at either end of the boat with privacy when we want it (more for him - what 21 yr old wants to be stuck in a tiny space with dad!). I'm a little sad he'll end up with the back cabin TBH.

 

Boats of this type I've seen have so far been built by a renowned hull builder and fitted out to keep up with the quality, BUT they tend to be 23-30 years old and still asking £50K+ which I'm told is quite a lot for such an age and this is why I started this thread. Maybe not though - quality is quality and they've all been clearly and continuously looked after and cherished. I'm guessing this is mainly due to them having been high-end of the market boats when new so perhaps the price is just reflecting that, because i've also seen newer boats that were comparitively poor quality and had an "abandoned" feel about them for similar prices.

 

I've looked at a few boats with different layouts, 99% of which I have a quick sprint from one end to the other and think "No way Jose".

 

I would like some proper boaty style,

a good hull,

quality "boaty" hardwood plank fit out,

seperate engine room - the ones I've seen have been dry and clean, I'm not bothered about the engine type, but I do like mechanical things and these type of boats generally have an interesting engine with some space for tools and a small work bench,

an in-built 3KW+ 240v genny if possible would be a bonus so I don't have to run the engine to do laundry, run power tools and the like,

solid fuel stove with back-boiler and a rad or two,

Maybe a eber for a quick warm up but I have a petrol one in my camper and it eats fuel and batteries so 50/50 on this. It's old however and just on/off on a thermostat. I think the repeated glow-plug start-ups don't help the leccy consumption. More modern ones I gather turn themsleves up and down to control the heat?

piles of batteries,

a small bath under the shower,

small galley,

space for washing machine/drier,

several ways to heat water, an instant water heater if possible - wall mounted gas type if you know what I mean.

permanent double (not cross-boat pull-out) preferably the other side of the bathroom from back cabin.

a nice little cratch covered area

I THINK I want pump out as I won't be in a marina.

 

Stuff like cooker, fridge, white goods, kitchen surface finish, tiling, are neither here nor there.

I absolutely don't want someone's atempt to make a loft apartment in a steel tube.

 

This boat does almost exist - I've seen a couple that 90% fitted the bill and appreciate I'd be lucky not to have to compromise a bit. But is what I'm describing worth the money they go for? Or am I paying a "scene tax" for back cabin/engine room style.

 

I joined this forum a month ago and that coincided with me actually starting to seriously think about this malarky other than just having a vague dream of peace and tranquility escapism. Well, the forum has wised me up a bit on that score at least. Not going to happen is it? It seems the cut is as full of the wide variety of human beings as the rest of the world, but at least everyone has ONE thing in common, so there's community of sorts. Beats living in a house for that alone.

 

Must pull my finger out and sell the house now. It's ripe for a developer so should be gone in a jiffy leaving me to buy an iced up boat, stuck somewhere for the winter due to winter canal closures - another reason for a reasonably self-sufficient boat from the off.

 

I'd be lost without this forum - it would have taken me years to find out what I've found out in just a month. Onwards and upwards.

[Dave_P]

I THINK I want pump out as I won't be in a marina.

 

 

What's your thinking here? The only time I'd consider a pump-out would be if i was in a marina and could therefore guarantee that pump-out facilities were accessible to me?

[boathunter]

Thinking is it'd be a long way to the elsan just to empty the bog and I wouldn't have to do it so often.

I have done a search on pump out v ... but as it come up in every single thread on this board I've yet to find the arguements for and against each type. I'm all ears for any practical advice, but daren't start a thread atm as so many seem to descend into a slanging match whatever the subject and and don't wish to be responsible for giving the excuse for yet another...

 

On the other hand - what the hell... I'll start one.

[Proper Job]

Lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance

 

[Dave_P]

i dont mind a slanging match. I assumed you were planning to cc? if so, pump outs are far more spaced out then elsans.

[boathunter]

I'm going to chill on a mooring for a bit and recover from 25 years of hard slog and a few years of turmoil, get to know my boat, muster whatever needs mustering, then set off on a very long random trip around the waterways.

 

So yes, medium term intention is to CC, but with the safety net of a home mooring to get sorted, for the winters, and any other time I feel the need.

 

Each time I try to make a strict plan in life it inevitably goes wrong, so I think not having one is my best option.

[Dave_P]

Amen to that Brother! Sounds like you and the cut will get on famously. You have my envy. Whenever I get a bit of time off to cruise, I tend to set myself ridiculously ambitious targets which end of with me racing against time to get back to my home mooring before I have to return to the dreaded work!

 

Amen to that Brother! Sounds like you and the cut will get on famously. You have my envy. Whenever I get a bit of time off to cruise, I tend to set myself ridiculously ambitious targets which end of with me racing against time to get back to my home mooring before I have to return to the dreaded work!