Why we have no rights.

[nbtafelberg]

Dear All,

 

It seems to me that we have no rights because we cause no problems (on the whole).

 

For example there was a report of Gypsies on main stream TV this morning they have a number of official plots on a camp site but they've exceeded it and the locals are not happy....

 

If your marina or mooring decided you couldn't moor there any longer what would happen? Probably you would have little right to stay. Even if you did it would have to go to a court of law.

 

My wife asked why, and I think its because we cause no problems. There is a lack of willing to change the Status Quo simply because it kind of works. The practice does not refect the legal situation for most liveaboards. How can it? With 500 residential moorings in the UK and 15000 people living on boats, we are either all living on massive boats or something is not right.

 

How do others see it?

[Alastair]

For a marina to give you a 'livaboard' tenancy agreement they would probably need planning permission! In most areas, giving 'residential' status to a mooring involves a change of use, as far as local authority is concerned.

Local authorities generally don't know anything about boating, and hence are a bit reactionary.

[Jon]

An interesting topic. May I request that we don't let it fall into a debate on 'continuous crusiers'. (I thought I'd mention this before anyone got the chance to steer the discussion in that direction! )

 

Many thanks,

 

Jon

[nbtafelberg]

Yes I'm talking about those of us who have an expensive at times Mooring that we pay good money for.

[nbtafelberg]

Yes, I was merely comparing the coverage that the whole mooring issue gets. simply NONE.

 

But it is an issue.

 

I have to agree with the observations from the Lords. However I doubt much will happen...

[bottle]

Hi

 

Just another example things being unfair. Local TV (ITV/BBC West) have in the last two weeks covered stories where Gypsys have moved onto greenfield sites bulldozed the ground flat covered it in chippings and set up camp completely ignoring planning laws. they have now applied for retrospective planning and got it.

 

What would happen if someone found a field next to a canal dug out a marina and connected it to the system?

[Paul Evans]

The first thing that would happen is that BW would come along and block the entrance - it has happened in the past - because you would be taking their water to fill the marina and they want to charge you for doing that. I don't have a problem with that in principle because it means that some of the marina fees I pay to the owner go towards running the canal system. I would have to pay a mooring fee to BW if I used one of their moorings. The extra I pay to the marina owner is for the convenience, relative security and facilities of a marina. I makes my choice and pays my money.

 

The second thing that would happen - if you couldn't persuade the planning authority to give you retrospective planning permission - is an enforcement notice requiring you to reinstate the site. If you don't comply, you can expect the planning authority to do it for you and charge you a large amount of money for doing it. I don't have a problem with that either. There has to be some community control over development which takes account of the environment, the local community and all the other things planning authorities have to consider. Whether planning authorities always make the right decison is another question. I've no doubt we could all point to what we consider poor planning decisions but the answer lies in the hands of the electorate. Vote for people who will make the right decisions!

[David Schweizer]

Whatever you think about the recent action of some groups of gypsies, they do actually have some right which are being flagrantly ignored by most Local Authorities. I suspect this is why, they are resorting to breaches of the Planning Regulations to force the local authorityies into action. If they were not granted planning Consent they could probobly prosecute the local authority for failing to establish recgnised sites as required under the 1968 (?) Act.

 

During the 1970's I lived in Birmingham and was a member of the local Gypsy Liason Committee, the biggest item under discussion then was the establishment of recognised sites - not much has changed in 30 years.

 

Doesen't help boaters much but I thought we should look at things in perspective.

[maffi mushkila]

Could it be that the reason boaters have no rights is because we never ask for any?

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

i think as well.........one keeps a low profile..........doesn't one?

[ChrisPy]

i think as well.........one keeps a low profile..........doesn't one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

seconded

 

............. otherwise ......... council tax, water rates, registration, local authority permits .... a creative local authority administrator could come up with all sorts.

 

stay low, keep outtasight.

[Amicus]

Camo paint and nets on the boat, and no shiny bits. AND no donk-donking engines. Stealth is so this year

[fyneladye]

Camo paint and nets on the boat, and no shiny bits. AND no donk-donking engines. Stealth is so this year

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Camo paint!!!! I pay an exhorbitant fee to BW for a residential licence, plus a cruising licence fee to BW to cruise on the water on am resident on. I also pay an exhorbitant fee to my local council called a community tax or something to live on the water with no road, no path and no lights etc. If there are any rights going can I have some please.

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

fyneladye:

this is kind of old ground on CW......

but to make a quick point.....residential moorings are just not available round here, infact your lucky to get "A" mooring full stop.....plus, the ones that are taken, cost the same as Im paying anyway......

you could always move moorings if your facilities are not good?

anyway im not getting into this old chestnut again....i think last time this was discussed it caused a right cafuffle!

and we all begged to differ.......and agreed to disagree..and stuff......

[larkshall]

Hmm, well with the increasing number of evictions, the increasing need for moorings and the decreasing supply of the same, it about time it was brought to he attention of someone. Officialdom by its very nature hates roamers, gypsies, itineraants etc. If its not nailed down u can't count/tax/control it !!.

 

It needs to go down the human rights approach. god forbid id cards, that will challenge 'em

[David Schweizer]

It is not necessarily the lack of moorings that is the problem, but a lack of moorings where people want them to be. My boat is currently on a BW Winter mooring in a quite delightful spot and, apart from the occassional short term visitor, is sitting all on it's own. The mooring is quite cheap (as these things go), there is a decent pub nearby, car parking, and a good bus service. I geuss that the reason no one else want's to moor there is because nearest water point is about a mile away through eight locks in one direction, or two miles the other way through three locks, and the nearest town of any consequence is about twelve miles away.

[fyneladye]

fyneladye:

this is kind of old ground on CW......

but to make a quick point.....residential moorings are just not available  round here, infact your lucky to get "A" mooring full stop.....plus, the ones that are taken, cost the same as Im paying anyway......

you could always move moorings if your facilities are not good?

anyway im not getting into this old chestnut again....i think last time this was discussed it caused a right cafuffle!

and we all begged to differ.......and agreed to disagree..and stuff......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello wynd lass, not moaning ar all, if you ever get down here you will see how great these particular moorings are. Do you want to know if one stands the chance of becoming vacant in the future.

 

Kindest regards

 

Derek

[fyneladye]

fyneladye:

this is kind of old ground on CW......

but to make a quick point.....residential moorings are just not available  round here, infact your lucky to get "A" mooring full stop.....plus, the ones that are taken, cost the same as Im paying anyway......

you could always move moorings if your facilities are not good?

anyway im not getting into this old chestnut again....i think last time this was discussed it caused a right cafuffle!

and we all begged to differ.......and agreed to disagree..and stuff......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello wynd lass, not moaning at all, if you ever get down here you will see how great these particular moorings are. Do you want to know if one stands the chance of becoming vacant in the future.

 

Kindest regards

 

Derek

[Guest st170dw]

Hello wynd lass, not moaning at all, if you ever get down here you will see how great these particular moorings are.  Do you want to know if one stands the chance of becoming vacant in the future.

 

Kindest regards

 

Derek

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

wynd lass,

 

I wonder if all these kind offers of moorings have anything to do with your shower porthole problem!

 

Dave

[wynd lass(nb.Black Pearl)]

HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and there was me thinking you were all being nice!

Anyway Maffi has sold me to an arab for 100 camels~~~~~~~

hope he has a big lake built for me boat..........

[bottle]

Anyway Maffi has sold me to an arab for 100 camels~~~~~~~

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Is that definate or will a bidding war break out.

 

My bid is two crates of beer

 

 

I know

[maffi mushkila]

Is that definate or will a bidding war break out.

 

My bid is two crates of beer

I know

 

100 camels are worth a damn lot more than two crates of beer.

[Paul Evans]

They might be. But you keep your camels, I'll have the beer!

[maffi mushkila]

They might be. But you keep your camels, I'll have the beer!

 

 

Duh! Never heard of trading. thats like buying and selling without money!

[Paul Evans]

Oh yes but I'm not trading camels for anything. I might get stuck with a load and have to feed and water them, keep them away from the neighbours and placate the OCM who would not be at all pleased to have a herd in the garden. As I said, I'll stick with the beer.