Boatmans cabin price premium?

[boathunter]

I've been honing our requirements (me and the boy) as I search for and view boats.

 

I now know an absolute must in terms of layouts is a trad boat with a boatmans cabin and seperate engine room.

 

What a bit of luck that no other layouts seem to give us that opportunity to avoid each other, usually also meaning we won't have to walk through each others bedrooms in the night for a pee and with bonus of the traditional boatyness that comes with it. Ye-ha!

 

But they do seem a bit scarce compared to other layouts and tend to come with beautifully kept exposed engines - again a ++++ for me.

 

This appears to attract an understandable price hike compared to similar more modern layouts as there's more work involved constructing the BM's cabin and the engines can (not always) be older thumpy ones - again another plus for me.

 

So I'm over the moon that our needs and my likes have converged as one - not often that happens!

 

I know this is a piece of string type question, but what are we talking about in extra cost terms to have this layout all other things being equal? I'd really appreciate an idea from the experienced boaters on this forum to be sure I won't be paying a rose tinted glasses premium when I should be haggling harder.

 

I started off looking at spending a very approx £40k, but I think that's probably going to have to rise a fair bit... The age of the boat is not important, but the condition certainly is and the boats that fall into this catergory so far have been built by well respected builders and have all been very well maintained and obviously loved.

 

Thanks again for being here, I do love this forum.

[RLWP]

Could I ask - how many boats have you had a look around?

 

Richard

 

Love the signature

[BlueStringPudding]

Could I ask - how many boats have you had a look around?

 

Richard

 

Love the signature

 

Oh yeah.

[boathunter]

Could I ask - how many boats have you had a look around?

 

Richard

 

Love the signature

er... not many. But I have looked at every boat for sale I can find on the internet and these are in short supply (for sale).

 

Am I wrong about price? I do hope so.

 

Am I wrong about them being well maintained? I do hope not.

 

I know I'm a blind man waving a broad brush, that's why I posed the question.

 

This is the sort of boat that's attracting me.

http://www.boatfinderbrokerage.co.uk/boat/090052/

If it was a few feet longer and the bedroom and bathroom were the other way round it would be perfect to my eyes. I haven't been on that one, but I have been on this which is also very nice I think (hope?)

http://www.newandusedboat.co.uk/used-boat.php?boatID=180

Edited October 6, 2012 by boathunter

[MtB]

Well firstly its a back cabin, not a boatman's cabin . The expression 'boatman's cabin' is a recent invention of the breed known as 'broker'.

 

Next, a back cabin doesn't necessarily help with access to the bog. Bathrooms are generally forward of the bedroom in a modern boat.#

 

BUT, in a real historic boat the bog will be in the engine 'ole, so maybe put one in there too!

 

I've seen boats for sale for as little as £15k with a separate engine room and back cabin....

 

Braunston Mariana has a nice one for sale now at £50k....

 

Mike

[boathunter]

Oops - back cabin then. I'll try and avoid the romantic terms in future Mike.

 

Any particular one? They have a few on at that price.

[RLWP]

OK l'll give you my usual advice. Pick a list of boats to go and look at. Include some you know you don't like, some you can't afford, some you love on paper and some you know nothing about. Then look at them and any boats next to them. It's a great way of discovering what kind of boat really speaks to you

 

Richard

[paddy r]

OK l'll give you my usual advice. Pick a list of boats to go and look at. Include some you know you don't like, some you can't afford, some you love on paper and some you know nothing about. Then look at them and any boats next to them. It's a great way of discovering what kind of boat really speaks to you

 

Richard

 

 

Everything Richard said,the right boat will speak to you when you see it!

[boathunter]

Thanks as always for your replies.

 

I will try and keep an open mind. I've looked at boats that need gutting and starting again, boats way out of price, boats like flats inside and boats that look and feel like boats. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but as two single people on one small boat, some things in terms of layout are a must and that includes 2 permanent berths of which one must be as self-contained as possible, not just a bed.

 

Whatever happens, the lad must have his own quiet space and I really don't want to down-size from a 4 bed house with cellars to a pull-out bed so rear cabin with stove appears to be ideal. My son isn't a typical 21 year old. He thrives in silence, he doesn't drink, smoke do anything he regards as frivolous, has no friends and lives to learn. Doing stuff just for fun baffles him. Right now he's in his room surrounded by blackboards covered in equations that make me dizzy. He doesn't watch TV, listen to music etc and if I do, will shut every door between us. Hell - he does that if I whistle a happy tune! It's not going to be easy for us unless we can spend time at either end of the boat.

 

Reading that back it sounds rather negative, but I wouldn't be without him, he has many positive traits as well, one being his unerring logical view on life which has helped me stay on an even keel through my seperation with his mum. But if he had to sit in a room with me or anyone else all evening he'd get very twitchy.

 

Any ideas other than rear cabin boats? I haven't seen a better layout but I'm all ears.

[Bod]

We have a 4 berth boat, from the back (stern) bunk room, 2 bunks, bottom one in your case could be changed to a desk arrangement, then bathroom, double berth, kitchen, living area at bow.

 

All in 55 feet,trad stern, keep looking, as others have said, your boat will find you!

 

Bod

[trackman]

boathunter, welcome to the forum. I can't comment on the suitability of the Les Wilson boat for your specific needs, but I can comment about its builder and the quality of the boat.

 

Anzio was built by Les as his own boat, which he lived aboard with his wife. He also uses his own boats as show boats for his "tug style" fully fitted boats, so he looks after them really well while they are his. Anzio was the boat he was living on when we agreed to buy our current boat from him 6 years ago. Our boat was then just a shell, just in the water and with nothing fitted apart from the windows,sprayed foam insulation, prop and prop shaft, so our decision to buy was totally based on what Anzio was like and the way it impressed us.

 

Our boat has been brilliant in almost every way for the whole 6 years and we love it. We never expected to be able to afford a new boat with a boatman's cabin ( the term Les uses as the son of a working boatman whatever others on the forum may say, by the by) and engine 'ole, but Les' price was within our range. We were lucky to get the boat as he usually builds only one fully fitted boat like this each year, most of his output being sailaways with Beta 38 engines at the stern.

 

I wasn't sure about a Beta JD3 Tug engine, knowing next to nothing about them, but the stories we heard were encouraging and we have never regretted that either. It has been really good, and when I have needed help with it both Beta and PRM (the gearbox manufacturers) have been really helpful. PRM recently sent me a new gasket and "O" ring I needed without charge after a brief phone call, this for a 6 year old gearbox!

 

The engine fitted reflects Les' policy as a real boater himself, which is that he only fits kit to his boats that he knows works and works well. This applies to everything, to the extent that one or two of the ideas we had for varying the spec of our own boat were rejected by Les on the basis that he didn't think they would work. In every case he has been proven correct by our experience with the boat, and we can now understand why he said no even if we didn't at the time!

 

Les usually seems to sell his own boats after living on them for 2 or 3 years, replacing them with a new one the same. I can't remember exactly when we heard he had sold Anzio, probably about 3 or 4 years ago now I think. I can't say who has owned it since or comment on how it has been cared for by them. What I can say is that it was a really solid boat when Les sold it, and the current asking price sounds a bargain if it is still in good condition. New, our boat cost well on the way to double the asking price.

 

There are some questions about the advert for the boat. It says there is no central heating or radiators, but I'm sure Les had an oil burning stove or a solid fuel one, with back boiler driving a radiator and heating the calorifier. He would also have had a coil in the calorifier connected to the engine cooling to allow heating the water from the engine. This was his standard set-up and what we have on our boat. I would expect Anzio to still have a similar system unless a later owner has removed it for some peculiar reason. Anzio also had a Porta-Potti type toilet (not the cassette mentioned by the ad), and one of these could be moved to the engine room or back cabin if that were more convenient for your purposes.

 

I would take a good look at Anzio if I were in your position. If it suits your needs and looks to have been cared for, I'd make an offer subject to survey.

 

 

[luctor et emergo]

I bought mine for 5 grand, including a stonking engine room.

 

Can't beat an SR3, really

 

 

Anything else is just about a matress and sleeping bag..

[boathunter]

Thanks for the detailed encouraging reply trackman.

 

Sadly I'm not in a position to buy until my house is sold so we'll have to wait and see what's on the market then. There weren't radiators so yes I imagine the present owners removed them for whatever reason - perhaps they only used it in the warm weather and recovered some wall space.

 

It's reassuring that after a only two weeks looking into NB's I can spot a good one. I looked at others the same day in a different marina that were asking more money and were laughable in comparison.

 

Luctor - if you spot another £5k boat with a stonking engine room, I have a matress and sleeping bag at the ready.

[Chalky]

OK l'll give you my usual advice. Pick a list of boats to go and look at. Include some you know you don't like, some you can't afford, some you love on paper and some you know nothing about. Then look at them and any boats next to them. It's a great way of discovering what kind of boat really speaks to you

 

Richard

 

Very good advice. We started believing we needed a 58' boat. Whilst looking we went to a large brokerage about 2 hours drive to see a particular boat we were interested in. When we got there it had just been sold so to avoid wasting the journey we decided to have a look at several others that were there. One boat was 29' and the space utilisation (package) was brilliant. This got us thinking and we proceeded to look at a lot of smaller boats. We ended up buying a 40' sailaway which we fitted out.

[boathunter]

Agreed. I started looking at 70ft and now think 57-60ft will do the job if it's fitted out cleverly.

[MtB]

Oops - back cabin then. I'll try and avoid the romantic terms in future Mike.

 

Any particular one? They have a few on at that price.

 

I was thinking of TACKLEY.

 

Very handsome boat but on closer inspection, I see the back cabin is not a proper traditional layout back cabin. The rest of the interior looks pretty grim too.

 

http://www.braunston...ey/Default.aspx

 

Mike