Dog fouling again.

[DHutch]

The question to ask of dog owners is : What do you do when your dog dumps in your garden?

Chuck it over the back fence into the feild.

 

- Thats the best way in my book, its full bio degradable, and the farmer infact spends much time spreading animal excrment on the feilds anyway, not to mention the affects of grasing cattle on said field.

 

 

Daniel

[David Schweizer]

The point I was making in my original thread was that it appears the problem is well on it's way to being eradicated, people who just a few years ago would resent being asked to clean up after their dog now do it as a matter of course. A true case of public opinion being changed for the better and we haven't had many of those lately.

I agree John, the problem does seem to be subsiding, but much of that is due to the diligence of local people who are prepared to make themselves unpopular by pointing out to dog owners that allowing their dog to poo on the path is both inconsiderate (and in many areas illegal) We had quite a serious problem in our Village until the Parish Council in co-operation with other Parish Councils asked the District Council to introduce a By Law making it illegal to allow a dog to foul footpaths and adjoining grassed areas, together with all other public open spaces.

 

As Clerk at the time I had to administer this By Law within the Parish, which included holding and issuing free "poop bags" to local dog owners. I and several Parish Councillors also monitored the worst affected areas advising dog owners of their obligations, and on occassions when our advice was repeatedly ignored, infoming them that any further breaches would be reported for prosecution. The message must have got through because we have virtually no problem in the village now.

 

The point I suppose I am making is that as users of the Canal and Towpath we perhaps need to be a bit more diligent in advising offending dog owners that they may be breaking the law allowing their dog to foul the path. Unfortunately there are still some people who live near the Canal in our area, that still think that it is OK to take their dog down to the canal with the specific intention of allowing it to foul the path. A fewyears ago I asked someone who I knew lived less than a hundred yards from the canal to clear up his dog's mess and he told me to mind my own business, when I threatened to report him he retorted that I didn't know where he lived, so I followed him home. He went into his house whilst I stood outside visibly makling a note of the address. Miraculously he came out again bearing a trowel and a plastic bag, he rutrured to the path cleared the mess and took it home, all under my careful surveilance. I hope he got the message for future occassions

Edited July 18, 2006 by David Schweizer

[Keeping Up]

The question to ask of dog owners is : What do you do when your dog dumps in your garden?

We had 6 months of hell when our next door neighbour set the Council, the Environmental Health people, our local MP, and a fancy firm of solicitors, on to us because we allow our 2 dogs to use our garden (for the record I then go out with a shovel, bag it up, double-bag it, and put it out with the domestic rubbish). The argument used against us was that it contravenes the Public Health Act to "permit an accumulation of noxious substances" on our land; that more than one of anything, such as two turds, counts as an accumulation, and dog mess is a noxious substance. It does not need to be either a public place (our back garden is fenced on all sides) or a demonstrable health hazard, to contravene the Act.

 

We were told that until we could prove that our garden was not contaminated by our unacceptable practices, by means of soil samples etc, it would be assumed that our garden was toxic and that we would be fined up to £5000 up-front and then £500 per day until we removed the top 6 feet of topsoil and had it taken to a licensed disposal site. We would naturally be banned from keeping dogs ever again, and would face prison sentences if we persisted in the habit. Furthermore, since our neighbour has cats (unlike a dog, the owner of a cat is not held responsible for their actions) then we would be held equally liable if we permitted her cats to perform in our garden (which they do whenever we are away) and if we did not employ a full-time garden-watcher while we were on holiday to keep the garden clear - otherwise we would be arrested on our return from holiday!

 

It was eventually resolved (with the aid of an arbitration service) only after a junior clerk in the Environmental Health department got carried away with the fun, and somewhat over-specified the possible penalties we could expect, such that their own legal department had to start retracting their statements. But for 6 months it made things really difficult.

 

Maybe I could learn from the episode, and perhaps sue British Waterways if they allow an accumulation of noxious substances on their towpath?

[DHutch]

We had 6 months of hell when our next door neighbour set the Council, the Environmental Health people, our local MP, and a fancy firm of solicitors, on to us because we allow our 2 dogs to use our garden (for the record I then go out with a shovel, bag it up, double-bag it, and put it out with the domestic rubbish). The argument used against us was that it contravenes the Public Health Act to "permit an accumulation of noxious substances" on our land; that more than one of anything, such as two turds, counts as an accumulation, and dog mess is a noxious substance. It does not need to be either a public place (our back garden is fenced on all sides) or a demonstrable health hazard, to contravene the Act.

 

We were told that until we could prove that our garden was not contaminated by our unacceptable practices, by means of soil samples etc, it would be assumed that our garden was toxic and that we would be fined up to £5000 up-front and then £500 per day until we removed the top 6 feet of topsoil and had it taken to a licensed disposal site. We would naturally be banned from keeping dogs ever again, and would face prison sentences if we persisted in the habit. Furthermore, since our neighbour has cats (unlike a dog, the owner of a cat is not held responsible for their actions) then we would be held equally liable if we permitted her cats to perform in our garden (which they do whenever we are away) and if we did not employ a full-time garden-watcher while we were on holiday to keep the garden clear - otherwise we would be arrested on our return from holiday!

 

It was eventually resolved (with the aid of an arbitration service) only after a junior clerk in the Environmental Health department got carried away with the fun, and somewhat over-specified the possible penalties we could expect, such that their own legal department had to start retracting their statements. But for 6 months it made things really difficult.

 

Maybe I could learn from the episode, and perhaps sue British Waterways if they allow an accumulation of noxious substances on their towpath?

Really!

- This really is a serously confused world!

 

 

Daniel (looks at his room, an hopes non of the accumulated detritus counts as noxious!)

[anhar]

Blimey Allan! Incredible story. Wotaloada bullshit over a little dog excrement.

 

regards

Steve

Edited July 18, 2006 by anhar

[Guest]

Incredible innit. Would the same apply I wonder if wild creatures "contaminated" our gardens? For instance a fox and its cubs used to use my mates garden as a toilet.

[Bernie]

Now that's interesting perhaps I should inform Environmental health about her cats that use my garden as a loo since they are for these purposes considered to be loosely termed as non domesticated. I just clean it out of the way and dispose of it as with my dogs excrement from my garden as soon as they do it or in the case of the cats each morning.

[matt]

Anyone letting thier dog crap on a lock side or mooring should be keelhauled.

 

I woke up one morning in Pewsey and someone had let thier dog crap actually on the ring the boat next to me was tied to.

 

I have spare shoes in the back cabing, which get used frequently when doing lock flights on my own. It's almost guaranteed I'll stand in something.

 

Coming through Barbridge at the weekend a lady walking on the tow path was letting her dog dump on the side, she just avoided eye contact and walked swiftly on.

 

(I just find it really offensive as you can probably tell)

[Bernie]

Anyone letting thier dog crap on a lock side or mooring should be keelhauled.

 

 

You are only saying what responsible dog owners themselves also feel who actually get tarred with the same brush as the irresponsoble ones.

[Moley]

a lady walking on the tow path was letting her dog dump on the side, she just avoided eye contact and walked swiftly on.

But you didn't comment as she passed, or say “excuse me, I think your dog just dropped something”?

 

Although I have to say that I don't think I've seen any lamp-post type signs to the effect that it's an offence to allow your dog to foul the towpath. Are there signs anywhere? I know it's offensive, but is it an offence?

[matt]

But you didn't comment as she passed, or say “excuse me, I think your dog just dropped something”?

 

Although I have to say that I don't think I've seen any lamp-post type signs to the effect that it's an offence to allow your dog to foul the towpath. Are there signs anywhere? I know it's offensive, but is it an offence?

 

I said 'whooa! what are you doing?' but she wasn't interested - she had three dogs and two had run ahead. Not that I'm sure she heard me with my engine.

 

I suspect it's often local residents who like having the canal to run the dogs on but don't like boaters mooring up in their back yards.

[kawaton]

Anyone letting thier dog crap on a lock side or mooring should be keelhauled.

 

Shouldnt that be "anyone Leaving their dog's crap.............."

 

When a dog has gotta go.....its gotta go......

 

Surely its animal cruelty to stop a dog when the turtles head has appeared.

 

You are only saying what responsible dog owners themselves also feel who actually get tarred with the same brush as the irresponsoble ones.

 

 

My sentiments Exactly

Edited July 19, 2006 by kawaton

[matt]

Shouldnt that be "anyone Leaving their dog's crap.............."

 

When a dog has gotta go.....its gotta go......

 

Surely its animal cruelty to stop a dog when the turtles head has appeared.

My sentiments Exactly

 

 

You clearly don't have a young child who plays outside the boat.

[Bernie]

This has been repeated so many times on the forums. What I usually do if I see anyone not picking up when we are moored, or anywhere else for that matter is offer them a 'poo bag' some just walk away and I have been known to follow them and receive verbal abuse, others accept with grace and usually do clear up the offending mess and I hope dispose of it in the proper receptacle or take it home.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Bernie

[dor]

As I understand it, there is a maximum penalty of £1000 for allowing a dog to crap in a public place and not clean it up. However I believe it is extremely difficult to bring a prosecution under the present system.

 

The answer is very simple: fine a few people £1000 for leaving dog crap behind. Make sure those cases are publicised well, and repeat the exercise every six months or so. I'm sure it would concentrate the mind wonderfully!

[kawaton]

Anyone letting thier dog crap on a lock side or mooring should be keelhauled.

Shouldnt that be "anyone leaving their dog's crap.............."

You clearly don't have a young child who plays outside the boat.

What has that got to do with it.

You miss my point

As I understand it, there is a maximum penalty of £1000 for allowing a dog to crap in a public place and not clean it up.

To not clean it up is what i was emphasising.

You are harping on about dogs crapping full stop.

 

If i ever get anyone complaining to my face about my dogs crapping.....they wont get a polite response.

If i was to leave it.....LEAVE it matt......fair enough, im in the wrong.

 

but i dont!!

 

As Bernie said, this has been discussed several times before.

Some people are so much more important, their views are the only ones that matter, and until dogs are banned full stop, they wont be happy.................

 

Well, to all those people.....

 

I WILL let my dog crap on the towpath. (but i will continue to pick it up)

I WILL toss it into the canal, if i do not have a bag and there is no bin near.

 

and matt, if you are so concerned that your kids might play in an area, where a dog once crapped many many years before, i am surprised you even take them out of the house.

 

To be honest, other peoples kids don't concern me.....but i do try my god damn hardest to leave the towpath tidy, be polite, kind, considerate and respectful to kids................Dont think you can say everyone is the same with other peoples dogs.

Edited July 19, 2006 by kawaton

[allybsc]

All I have to say is.....................................nappy sacks!!!!!!!

Regards,

Ally p.

[Bernie]

As I understand it, there is a maximum penalty of £1000 for allowing a dog to crap in a public place and not clean it up. However I believe it is extremely difficult to bring a prosecution under the present system.

 

The answer is very simple: fine a few people £1000 for leaving dog crap behind. Make sure those cases are publicised well, and repeat the exercise every six months or so. I'm sure it would concentrate the mind wonderfully!

I totally agree, still it happens as often as clockwork. The dog wardens would actually have to be out at around 6am and 12mn to catch a lot of them. We have the phantoms who walks his/her dogs at ungodly hours, we never see them but find the leavings frequently along the road where we live. My nosy neighbour even followed one home, had the evidence reported them to the authorities but were told there was nothing they could do since they hadn't witnessed it. So he posted it through the offending people's letterbox.

To be tarred with the same brush as the irresponsible though does really irk me and to be made to feel guilty when my dogs even stop to have a sniff surely is not what dog ownership is about.

Now if anyone would like a list of the places where you don't need to clean up I have that too.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Bernie

[David Schweizer]

As I understand it, there is a maximum penalty of £1000 for allowing a dog to crap in a public place and not clean it up. However I believe it is extremely difficult to bring a prosecution under the present system.

Actually it is quite straightforward, but you need either photogtraphioc evidence or two witnesses, the matter is then reported to the District Council who have an obligation to take action. This may take the form of a written warning, or can lead to an immediate prosecution. If they do nothing they are guilty of Maladministration which can be taken up with the local Government Ombudsman. Trouble is most people can't be bothered so the offenders get awy with it.

Edited July 19, 2006 by David Schweizer

[matt]

I WILL let my dog crap on the towpath. (but i will continue to pick it up)

I WILL toss it into the canal, if i do not have a bag and there is no bin near.

 

and matt, if you are so concerned that your kids might play in an area, where a dog once crapped many many years before, i am surprised you even take them out of the house.

 

You are trolling.

[kawaton]

You are trolling.

 

A lovely repsonse. Rather than admit you read my post incorrectly you choose to insult me

 

To defend ones point is trolling is it?

My understanding is that trolling is to inflame an argument. Exactly what you did with your comments about kids.

And to suggest that anyone who lets the dog foul the towpath, should be keelhauled, again is an example of trolling. (if you claim my comment was trolling, you cannot deny yours)

 

You can call my comments whatever you like. Its a response beffiting of someone who has no other form of debate.

Im not going to lose any sleep over it.

But i thought your aim was to stop owners allowing their dogs to foul on towpaths. Your attitude will only encourage ME to allow mine.

Edited July 19, 2006 by kawaton

[matt]

 

But i thought your aim was to stop owners allowing their dogs to foul on towpaths. Your attitude will only encourage ME to allow mine.

 

The point in my original post was that it is completely unacceptable for dog owners to allow dogs to dump next to boat moorings or locks - regardless of whether they pick it up.

 

When you see your kid with crap on their hands you might feel the same.

 

I've had dogs and it takes no effort at all to teach a dog where is acceptable.

 

The post you're just done is nothing more than a troll - if you're trying to provoke me into a rant - I'm not biting.

 

I'm sorry you've got nothing better to do with your time.

 

Matt.

[kawaton]

The point in my original post was that it is completely unacceptable for dog owners to allow dogs to dump next to boat moorings or locks - regardless of whether they pick it up.

 

When you see your kid with crap on their hands you might feel the same.

 

I've had dogs and it takes no effort at all to teach a dog where is acceptable.

 

The post you're just done is nothing more than a troll - if you're trying to provoke me into a rant - I'm not biting.

 

I'm sorry you've got nothing better to do with your time.

 

Matt.

 

 

Matt

 

My First reply to you was pointing out that you had wrote your post incorrectly

you stated that dogs are NOT allowed to foul the towpath. They can, as long as its cleaned up

I politely pointed this out, and there was humour in my post, and in no way was i trying to provoke you.

 

Instead of admitting you had posted an incorrect comment, you chose to provoke me into an argument, by saying i obviously dont have kids then. TOTALLY off the subject.

you completely misunderstand me, choose not too read facts, and only read into what you want.

My dogs are trained and if you read my many other posts on the subject you would see that.

 

You make many assumptions about my character, whereas i have made none about you. Who is the troll?

 

Right...some facts. I have two kids AND dogs ...several nephews and nieces, many friends with young kids AND dogs.

I know only too well what hassle dog mess causes.

 

WHICH IS WHY I ALWAYS PICK UP AFTER MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i've lost count the amount of times i've said that now. you are guilty of tarring all dog owners with the same brush, and do no good to help your own cause.

 

when i said i WILL let my dog foul the towpath...i also said i WOULD pick it up.

Who are you to say i cannot let my dog foul the towpath...the law is on my side.

 

A dog on a GOOD diet does not leave messy craps. So they are easy to remove. Maybe if YOUR dogs had been on good diets, you wouldnt need to potty train them.

My dogs are trained to go to toilet on command. I command them to go on the towpath, because when you are on the boat for a few weeks, and are surrounded by private property, why would i walk for miles to find a patch of grass, where your kids cannot reach, when the law stipulates my dogs can foul the towpath if i clean up

 

Ok, to finish because you've bored me into submission with your ignorance now.

So if i make a post, which you disagree with and YOU feel the need to insult me.....i am a troll.

but if you insult me, and call me a troll, which serves no other purpose than to provoke....you are not a troll?

 

Double standards........and you expect me to have consideration for YOUR kids....?

 

Oh, and im at work, im getting paid to waste my time on this.....are you?

Edited July 19, 2006 by kawaton

[matt]

Matt

 

My First reply to you was pointing out that you had wrote your post incorrectly

you stated that dogs are NOT allowed to foul the towpath. What im sure you meant was that owners should not leave that mess.

I politely pointed this out, and there was humour in my post, and in no way was i provoking you.

 

 

You might want to go back on the posts I made - I'm not sure what you're quoting here.

 

My post started 'Anyone letting thier dog crap on a lock side or mooring should be keelhauled.'

 

It's clear that you feel strongly about your rights here, I'm not arguing with you about them anymore - it's a depressing subject. As they say up here - what comes around, goes around.

 

 

 

Matt.

[kawaton]

You might want to go back on the posts I made - I'm not sure what you're quoting here.

 

My post started 'Anyone letting thier dog crap on a lock side or mooring should be keelhauled.'

 

It's clear that you feel strongly about your rights here, I'm not arguing with you about them anymore - it's a depressing subject. As they say up here - what comes around, goes around.

Matt.

 

Thats the post

BUT You still dont see it do you.

 

anyone letting thier dog crap on the lockside or mooring should by keelhauled.

 

WHY?

 

ITS ok to allow dogs to crap, if you clean up. Law says so, not you.

We cant please everyone, best just stick to the law.

 

99% of the towpath is a mooring, or potential.

So, you say i cannot allow the dog to foul where there is a mooring...so i go further up. 10 mins later a boat moors there. It becomes a mooring.

On one of my other threads i even state i use anti bacterial spray.

I do what i can to please non dog owners, to a limit. But i WONT stop my dog going, when it wants to go!! Thats animal cruelty, and contravenes my morals.

 

I'm glad to see you dont want to argue anymore.

If only you had took that approach in the first place.

Edited July 19, 2006 by kawaton