Buying a boat as a complete Numpty

[Blokey]

We had £30.000 and that was it. Being someone who doesnt like debt or loans we didnt consider one and still dont want one.

We went round looking at boats and decided on a boat from zero knowledge. A fiftyfoot boat for £25,000 that was agreed would have a full 4 years ticket on it from the day of sale and we very exitedly laid down our deposit. We then went round telling all the planet of our good fortune and future plans.

Through the solicitor dragging his feet and messing around the payment of the balance was delayed for a month. The yard were fine about that and held on to our boat.

During that month and on the day it was due for its survey our boat sunk.

We were told that the previous owners had made a bodge up repair that gave way and when they came into work that morning she was sat with her stern on the bottom in 18 inches of water. They sorted her out and eventually she was surveyed and the results were she had to have a new stern and hull. This we were told by the yard would be sorted out at their expense and the price stood but they would need the money in advance to fund the work. We transfered £25,000 into their account with a bank transfer, and then we waited and waited and waited. To this day we have had promise after promise that paperwork would be forwarded. If you phone them you are told "hopefully" we should have it on dock at the end of the week etc etc etc. Their word and promises arent worth a carrot. Dates and times have come and gone. They have said time and again they would phone us we have never had a single call from the yard to this date. They never return calls and never keep their word.

They have had our money for months now and we havent had as much as a reciept. We were told last week that he had posted paperwork that particular day, it has never arrived ,it was a crock of proverbial, it was never sent in the first place.

I have been told this week that finally the boat is on the dock and being worked on????

The initial confidence and the excitement and pleasure has all gone now and we are hoping and praying that 1,we havent been ripped off for 25,000 in total and 2, if it does come to fruition we are hoping that the boat is ok and not going to be one expensive heartbreak after another. If this whole thing isnt finalised within the next 2-3 weeks I will name and shame this yard. Its so called a well respected and known company. Watch this space.

For newcomers like us BE VERY AWARE. We have done it totally wrong through sheer lack of knowledge and given ourselves a massive headache instead of something that should have been magic. Im aware this post makes us look foolish but frankly I dont care if it saves some other novices going down the same road.

We are fortunate that the people who are holding our mooring are good friends and are still holding it.

Had it been otherwise and down to this yard,s promises we would have lost this mooring 5 times over.

[Alastair]

Sad story, hope it works out for you. Boats can sink, be repaired and go on forever.

 

Lesson to be learnt; do not ever, ever, ever part with money until you have had a survey.

[bottle]

Hi Blokey

 

Thank you for sharing this with us, I do hope that it will all come out well.

 

It is a hard lesson that you have learnt and with luck others will learn by your mis-fortune.

 

Good luck with the boat and as Alastair said many boats have been re-floated and gone on for a long time.

[Pirate]

Gosh thats awfull, it`s a pity you didn`t just pay them enough to do the work, they might have rusehed it then.

 

However I`m sure it`ll all be fine in the end, just dont recomend then to anyone after

[charles123]

Sorry to hear this story, my suggestion is keep on their case every couple of days and do it in person at their yard. Other than that I dont know what the legal position is but you should take advice, I dont think solicitors charge much if at all for the first consulation.

 

Hope you get the money back or the boat

 

Good luck

 

Charles

[nbtafelberg]

Hi Blokey

 

thats real bad! I hope things get sorted.

[nigel carton]

. If this whole thing isnt finalised within the next 2-3 weeks I will name and shame this yard. Its so called a well respected and known company. Watch this space.

 

 

2 -3 Weeks, name em now! or at least give us a clue?

Hope things work out for you blokey.

[Guest]

2 -3 Weeks, name em now! or at least give us a clue?

Hope things work out for you blokey.

I would think you should consult a solicitor. The first consultation is a fixed price with many, and they will hopefully point you in the right direction. Presumably you will have the repairs overseen by your surveyor? I would urge you to do this. Any replating should be done to a certain standard, and your insurance company may insist on it. It has been mentioned on this forum before, that poor replating can be worse than none. Don't let the fact that it took water put you off, a brand new shell once went down near where we craned our shell in.

Hope it all works out for you.

[Graham Blott]

We bought our boat not knowing what we were doing (thought we did, but a steep learning curve took place). Thankfully it worked out well, although we have had a few things to do to it to put right (but I guess that is typical of all second hand boats).

Guess we were very lucky. Really hope that your probelms get sorted out quickly and that you can join in this wonderful life style

[alan_fincher]

Truly awful......

 

There are far too many stories appearing on here of things that just shouldn't happen, so like the others, I sincerely hope this comes right for you soon.

 

All the points Catweasel has just made are entirely valid, and I concur with him 100%

 

You say "stern on the bottom in 18" of water", and from that it's hard to judge how much water came in, (as it's perfectly possible to have the stern on the bottom in 18" of water, but no water inside the boat just as part of normal cruising...).

 

I guess a question you haven't answered is "how high did it get inside, and what did it cover. Probably stating the bleedin' obvious, but if it came very high up gearbox or engine, you need to get some checks done that it's not got inside these, (or if it has, ensure the yard includes all the correct remedial actions....).

[Waverunner]

Really sorry to hear your story. I hope everything is sorted out to your complete satisfaction in the very near future.

 

As someone who, as soon as my motor cruiser is sold, is about to launch himself into the world of narrowboats/widebeams it's stories like this that fill me with absolute horror.

 

Without hijacking the thread, what is the name and shame policy here. I've noticed several threads where name and shame details have been deleted. On the VX220 forum we can post such details freely for the benefit of all members, but I get the impression that's not the done thing here?

[wrigglefingers]

Hello Blokey,

 

Having been through buying a boat myself recently I know how nerve-wracking it can be. There are a few issues that bother me and if this is not sorted out swiftly, you should discuss them with a solictor.

 

I'm not sure why you are paying for the work on a boat when it is not clear from your post whether title (your ownership) has passed to you. Even if you have paid a deposit, that is a mark of good faith that the sale will progress, not an indicator that you are the banking resource for either the broker or the seller. Until contracts are completed, you have no liability or responsibilty for the repairs. I would think that you would be justified in demanding your money and your deposit back should you not wish to purchase the boat. Presumably, your sale was conditional on survey (which would likely be considered implicit given a surveyor was appointed and the appointment made at the brokers). If the boat does not make it to survey that is not your concern.

 

If you do wish to continue with the purchase or the solictor advises you that you have no choice due to the contract you entered; you should appoint a good surveyor and ask them to superivse the over-plating work. The cost of the surveyor should be deducted from the purchase price along with any other serious changes that may be needed (see Alan's comments about the engine). I would play hard over this one or walk away if it's not possible. If the contract you entered is punitive then you should consider whether (with your lack of experience) it was a fair one.

 

I hope things work out. £25,000 may not seem like much money to the purchasers of £100k new boats but it's a large fortune to most of us and not something that can be risked lightly. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you; often things just need time to resolve, but that's not to say that they're not helped by a hefty booting!

 

Best wishes, Jill

 

PS You're not a numpty - there but for good fortune go all too many of us ..........

Edited July 3, 2006 by wrigglefingers

[Moley]

Without hijacking the thread, what is the name and shame policy here ... I get the impression that's not the done thing here?

I think, as we're Jon's guests (and don't want to get him in any trouble), and as we value this forum (and don't want it taken away), we tend to be very careful of such things until such time as allegations are proven. In other words, now that iteldo4me has won his court case against Hixon, he can post full details, but while things were still ongoing, names if posted were deleted.

 

So while Blokey has some serious and unfortunate problems, while he's still trying to get things rectified through normal channels, it might do more harm than good to bring things all into the open.

[gbmud]

Blokey

 

I seem to remember that you mentioned somewhere being a large type? If the yard is within visiting range I would pay them a visit - on a Saturday when they are busy and full of potential customers - and demand a receipt for your money, there and then, confirming that you are the owner of the boat and that they will be competing the work. Don't threaten violence or get very angry, that will get you nowhere. Most people find a big guy speaking softly and calmly quite intimidating if you do it right - and if they think you might be putting potential customer off then most firms will be only too happy to oblige you and get rid of you ASAFP!

 

Good luck

 

Chris

[wrigglefingers]

Really sorry to hear your story. I hope everything is sorted out to your complete satisfaction in the very near future.

 

As someone who, as soon as my motor cruiser is sold, is about to launch himself into the world of narrowboats/widebeams it's stories like this that fill me with absolute horror.

 

Without hijacking the thread, what is the name and shame policy here. I've noticed several threads where name and shame details have been deleted. On the VX220 forum we can post such details freely for the benefit of all members, but I get the impression that's not the done thing here?

 

It's probably fair to say that the vast majority of narrowboaters, sellers and brokers are honorable, decent, courteous people who try to be fair. There have been a few cases recently for various reasons (divorce, incompetence, lack of business nous and dishonesty) where that has not been the case and we have discreetly tried to pass word around without unduly or unfairly vilifying reputations.

 

More pertinently, the owner of this site is a policeman. Jon spends a considerable amount of time (and expense) to ensure that the site provides a good source of information. As a forum it is therefore important that we do not bring his reputation into disrepute, or indeed libel others, as I believe he is responsible for the content. I'm sure we'd like to expose sharp practice where it exists but naming and shaming has consequences and those may extend well beyond what we intended, hence the moderation.

 

Best wishes, Shep

 

 

 

Sorry Ade,

 

We cross-posted.

 

Shep

[Waverunner]

Thanks for that. Understood

 

I think, as we're Jon's guests (and don't want to get him in any trouble), and as we value this forum (and don't want it taken away), we tend to be very careful of such things until such time as allegations are proven. In other words, now that iteldo4me has won his court case against Hixon, he can post full details, but while things were still ongoing, names if posted were deleted.

 

So while Blokey has some serious and unfortunate problems, while he's still trying to get things rectified through normal channels, it might do more harm than good to bring things all into the open.

 

PS Edited to add thanks to Shep too

Edited July 3, 2006 by Waverunner

[Blokey]

I have been told that they are not interfering with the "integrity " of the boat but are overplating with 6 mil steel. I have been told various things by boaters from that will be ok to that is rubbish?????

[wrigglefingers]

6 mm sounds right, my old Springer was over-plated with 10mm but by a welder with no boat experience (certainly didn't need ballast!).

 

Integrity - Ask the surveyor to clarify. I can see what they might be driving at but it's an ambiguous phrase at best and I would like to see that made explicit (and written down!) You must make sure the welding is done to the surveyor's satisfaction too.

 

Jill

[Carrie]

Blokey - Hi.

I know what you mean about the excitement waning. It WILL come back!

 

What about going along with a cam-corder and notebook, saying you want to document the repairs for a book you are writing on your move to the canals? Oh and you need that receipt now.

 

Good luck with it.

[wrigglefingers]

Blokey - Hi.

I know what you mean about the excitement waning. It WILL come back!

 

What about going along with a cam-corder and notebook, saying you want to document the repairs for a book you are writing on your move to the canals? Oh and you need that receipt now.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Yup, I can also vouch for that too! (and the sleepless nights when you consider all things you could hit, scrape and otherwise fret about!)

 

Carrie's idea about photgraphing the process is a good one.

 

Regards, Shep

[Blokey]

We had major words over the phone yesterday night. The guy has told me that the boat "hopefully" (his favourite word) will be ready by the end of next week. He has also told us the same about the end of May, the beginning of June, the middle of June and last week.

He insists that he has sent paperwork in the past and we have never recieved it. He was to have sent it again on Monday recorded delivery .We have never recieved it. He was sending it again yesterday, again recorded delivery and the postman has just walked by my window.

The person who is the agent, I have contacted her time and again and she agrees that he is out of order and say,s she is going to go personally and find out whats happening but thats not happening either. 9 times out of 10 when she promises to return calls it doesnt happen.

I had an old banger of a car that had problems up until yesterday that I didnt trust for the journey to the yard. I got shut of it and have a much better car so I can go at any time now but my problem is that Im scared of losing my temper. Im trying very, very hard now to believe that this is all going to turn out ok but all the time Im seeing this spectre of these people stealing every penny we have. Ive already been in trouble a couple of times in the past through losing it and decking somebody and the trouble is that being the size I am I tend to break whatever I hit and that opens serious doors as Ive found out to my cost.

I have 4 brothers who are all bigger than myself and they are all very concerned and straining on the leash everyday and thats not helping. My partners brother is a solicitor and he was always very much against our idea and he is also on my case every day and also straining the leash. None of this at this time is helping, although it may very well do in the next couple of weeks.

My suspicions could be wrong and the yard owner is just a guy who,s word isnt worth a carrot and we will end up sometime with a good boat, but the more this lack of communication goes on and these constant broken promises and the "hopefully by next week crap" the less likely it is looking to all here.

[allybsc]

Hi Blokey,

Keep your cool, get the solicitor onto it, ring trading standards, go to the citizens advice, get tooled up legally not with muscle power and don't lose your cool, try the police, do anything but get yourself banged up.

Good luck,

Ally p.

PS Send him a registered letter saying if the work is not done in 7 days you will remove the boat, get the work done and sue him (very publically) for the cost.

Edited July 5, 2006 by allybsc

[Blokey]

I dont have any paperwork to prove that we own the boat Ally. This is what he is supposedly sending every day.

The only proof we have that they have recieved £25,000 from us is the bank transfer.

As I say we have been totally naive idiots. He told us that after the boat sank he needed the money to do the repair work before he could carry on with it and so we sent it to him. In fact as has already been said we acted as his banker and at this minute in time we have nothing to show for it other than a crock of broken promises.

[bottle]

Hi Blokey

 

You have a solicitor in the family, get him to send a solicitors letter (should get a family discount), as you say, you do have proof that he has your money, you have the bank records.

 

As said by others please keep your aggression (although understandable) under control because you will definitley lose.

 

I know this will be hard but demand your money back (with time limit) and find another boat, there are plenty more out there.

[Cafnod]

Hi

Sorry to hear that you are having this grief, lets hope it is resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

Hope these few pointers might help a bit.

CAB can reccomend solicitors who offer free adivce consultaions.

Not sure if he has committed a criminal offence yet, but he is fairly close, again CAB/solicitor can advise on this.

Have you tried writing him a letter, sent by recorded or registered delivery?

Have you asked to see the proof of posting for the documents he reckons he sent?

It may be worth you saying that you are going to record all future telephone calls to him, as you feel that nothing is happening and you may need to tsake legal action.

What you will need to do is to get a chronology together, when you agreed to buy the boat, when the money was transferred, etc.

 

Hope this is some help, again sorry you are going through all of this grief.