Do You Have VHF Onboard ?

[RLWP]

Without wishing to point out the obvious, radios and phones differ greatly in operation.

You can't, for example, set a phone to channel X and then expect to talk to anyone else with a phone in the area. This is what would make radios really useful near locks (especially manned or "volunteered" locks), marinas, blind bridges etc.

 

True. You can pick up your navigation guide, read the 'phone number of the lock and speak to that specific person though

 

Richard

[Morat]

True. You can pick up your navigation guide, read the 'phone number of the lock and speak to that specific person though

 

Richard

 

Errr, you're not really getting this are you?

 

edit: apologies for one-line rudeness - unwarranted. I'm going to blame my hangover. Milky coffee is restoring my mood.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Morat

[RLWP]

Errr, you're not really getting this are you?

 

No, I'm not. I cannot see when I would have used VHF while cruising from Hatton to Hockley Heath the other day. I cannot see when I would need it cruising from Hockley Heath to Hockley Port. Or for the rest of our holiday for that matter

 

I will take my Waterways World list of useful 'phone numbers, Pearson's guides and a mobile 'phone though and use all three

 

Why would I need VHF again?

 

Richard

[Morat]

I'm not saying you need it. The OP is proposing Marine VHF and I think it's overkill due to the licensing requirements. However, we do agree that radios have advantages over phones.

 

What I am advocating is a lightly licensed or license free set of radio channels that would be free for all inland boaters to use. The advantages of radio communication are that the communication is broadcast, rather than point to point. Although this has drawbacks in terms of privacy (and if privacy is a concern then I would agree that a phone is a better choice) it has advantages in that anyone in the area with an interest can hear the message and act on it if necessary.

 

So, for example, if I were approaching Foxton* locks I could call "Hello Foxton locks, this is narrowboat XXXXX arriving at the bottom of the flight".

Everyone with a radio in range would know that the queue had just grown by one at the bottom of the lock flight.

The 'keepers/volunteers could reply "Hello XXXX this is Mike the CaRT volunteer, please stay below the bottom lock, we reckon you'll be waiting half an hour."

At this point everyone in range knows that the wait at the bottom is about half an hour and they don't all have to ring the keeper individually (if they know his number).

 

Also, if something goes wrong:

"HELP, we've got stuck on the cill - shut the paddles!!"

Everyone can shut their paddles at once and look for the stuck boat instead of a chain of events getting out of hand. Also, people waiting will know there's a problem and can either go and help or at least not get shirty because they're delayed by something they don't know about, or keep ringing the lock keepers who will be busy.

 

 

Would I make this compulsory?

No, definitely not. But it could be useful and if we had a chat/social channel it could be fun too.

 

*I've no idea if Foxton has phone numbers - I'm just thinking of a generic set of locks that is likely to be manned/volunteered.

[NB Willawaw]

RLWP do you have VHF on your boat ?

[RLWP]

RLWP do you have VHF on your boat ?

 

No

 

Why?

 

Richard

[Circe]

It's easier to use VHF than it is to scrabble around in books looking for phone numbers - for us anyway. We've got a handheld VHF set that hangs right next to the hatch, so it's on hand and ready to use.

 

When we're on a long cruise, we do book into Marinas periodically (mostly so we can do some laundry!) We would have stopped in one marina, but there were no signs to indicate where we could have tied up, where the office was etc so we turned around and left again.

 

Didn't have the phone number handy, so didn't call. We spent the night on the canal instead and used a laundrette in the next town.

 

So there you go - it's an indecisive response from me. But if they did answer on VHF, I probably would have used that - easier than googling for phone numbers in a poor signal area. I suspect we're in a minority though - we use VHF quite a lot normally, so it's almost second nature.

[Guest]

Yes - got VHF and so does our Marina (Kings Marina Newark - BWML)

 

Dont all BWML marinas have VHF ?

 

No

[NB Willawaw]

In a recent survey on two canal related Facebook groups, it was discovered that

 

22 boats carry VHF either permanently or occasionally

12 boats don't and have no interest

15 boats don't have VHF but would consider it if more boats and marinas fitted

 

To me, this suggests that VHF has potential on our canals.

 

I don't mean that boats cruise round with aerials up and loudspeakers blaring static to spoil everybody's peace. Quite the opposite.

 

However, if marinas and some service-supplying boatyards fitted channel M, this would allow VHF equipped boats to communicate about berth locations, pump out availability, etc.

 

In fact, virtually anything you might normally phone a marina or yard for, except the calls are free.

 

I'm not even suggesting boats fit VHF specially for this purpose - it just seems that if 44% of boats already have VHF, they could actually get better use out of it.

 

Channel M costs a marina £75 per year for the licence. A VHF base station can be bought for around £100.

No trained operator is required to operate a set working on channel M. The person who normally answers the phone can operate the channel M set.

 

Most VHF boat sets sold in the UK, come complete with channel M (or Ch37A as it is sometimes called).

 

I've spoken to a few marinas and there seems little interest. One even said in their defence, that they had not received anybody asking for it.

I wonder how many boaters know about the merits of Channel M ??

[Timleech]

In a recent survey on two canal related Facebook groups, it was discovered that

 

22 boats carry VHF either permanently or occasionally

12 boats don't and have no interest

15 boats don't have VHF but would consider it if more boats and marinas fitted

 

To me, this suggests that VHF has potential on our canals.

 

I don't mean that boats cruise round with aerials up and loudspeakers blaring static to spoil everybody's peace. Quite the opposite.

 

However, if marinas and some service-supplying boatyards fitted channel M, this would allow VHF equipped boats to communicate about berth locations, pump out availability, etc.

 

In fact, virtually anything you might normally phone a marina or yard for, except the calls are free.

 

I'm not even suggesting boats fit VHF specially for this purpose - it just seems that if 44% of boats already have VHF, they could actually get better use out of it.

 

Channel M costs a marina £75 per year for the licence. A VHF base station can be bought for around £100.

No trained operator is required to operate a set working on channel M. The person who normally answers the phone can operate the channel M set.

 

Most VHF boat sets sold in the UK, come complete with channel M (or Ch37A as it is sometimes called).

 

I've spoken to a few marinas and there seems little interest. One even said in their defence, that they had not received anybody asking for it.

I wonder how many boaters know about the merits of Channel M ??

 

That looks like a very selective survey, I can not believe that anywhere near 44% of boats on our canals carry VHF. More like 4% I should think!

 

I do have it, but frankly doubt whether the idea will get off the ground.

 

Tim

[NB Willawaw]

Well the survey wasn't deliberately selective and was quite openly worded - it was conducted on the Just Canals Facebook and Canals & Rivers UK Facebook group, the latter of which has many CWDF members.

 

I find the world of canals very traditional and incredibly frustrating - anything new or not conforming with a perceived norm is usually rejected out of hand.

However, it doesn't stop us talking about such things.

We would never have anything new if ideas weren't floated.

[Chris Pink]

 

...a bit like answering the phone really

 

 

Hmmm. Yes.

 

Only not as easy.

[Morat]

Hmmm. Yes.

 

Only not as easy.

 

If you can answer a phone you can talk on a radio, seriously.

[jelunga]

I find it a lot easier than answering the phone.

1) it is easier to find, not hidden in a pocket or under a cushion

2) you know who is calling before you answer it

Other benefits over pmr and cb ARE the licensing requirements. It reduces the number of plonkers using the system because of the legal need to license.

Going through some built up area CB is full of obscenity and overpowered illegal transmitters. PMR is full of kids playing about. Marine band VHF is usually clear of idiots. Once you have done the test the qualification is for your lifetime. Licensing is free via the internet. I cannot see the difficulty some seem to express and I can see great benefits for convenience abd safety.

[Roger Gunkel]

I think the figure of 44% of narrowboats having VHF is wildly off the mark. There are about 100 boats in the marina here and there are maybe 10 that have VHF. These are all larger grp cruisers whose owners tend to use them for occasional coastal trip, whereas if you discount those, there are no narrowboats or widebeams with VHF at all.

 

I think that the idea of an easily accessible VHF set that can communicate with inland watterways boaters facilities and other boats is a very good one. What concerns me more though is that as long as potential users have to go through the rigmarole of going on a training course and learning correct radio and emergency procedures just to check if the next marina has a spare mooring, it will always be a non starter. Most inland boat owners can't even be bothered to learn the childishly simple sound signals let alone get involved in VHF licensing and procedures.

 

Great idea that it may be, I think that only those boaters who have a serious need for marine VHF will actually bother, unless the current rules are relaxed, which would then open it to abuse in the same way that CB has been.

 

Roger

[howardang]

I find it a lot easier than answering the phone.

1) it is easier to find, not hidden in a pocket or under a cushion

2) you know who is calling before you answer it

Other benefits over pmr and cb ARE the licensing requirements. It reduces the number of plonkers using the system because of the legal need to license.

Going through some built up area CB is full of obscenity and overpowered illegal transmitters. PMR is full of kids playing about. Marine band VHF is usually clear of idiots. Once you have done the test the qualification is for your lifetime. Licensing is free via the internet. I cannot see the difficulty some seem to express and I can see great benefits for convenience abd safety.

I have no problems if some people want to fit and use VHF on narrowboats. I think the issue would be the value of doing so because I suspect the number of people buying a handset and obtaining the relevant licences would, IMHO, be very limited. A large proportion of canal users are hire boaters who would almost certainly not be using VHF which would limit its usefulness to those marins and boatyards who would bother to use it and i think they would also be limited.

 

 

Cheers

 

Howard

[Morat]

Well, this is the balance that needs to be struck between full fat Marine VHF, license free radios or something in between.

[NB Willawaw]

I quite agree.

 

Normally, the resistance to VHF is from narrowboaters, which is fine. Nobody needs to fit it if they don't want to.

 

However, here we are talking about marinas fitting Ch M so that those who already have a fixed or handheld VHF can get better use out of their equipment and for it to be used in a useful and positive way that will benefit boatowner and marina alike.

 

The other day, we detoured down an arm and several locks to reach a marina - it would have been great to have just given them a free VHF call on Ch M from a few miles away to confirm that they had room for us. Their phone number was on a board erected at the very entrance to the basin - a bit late.

Edited August 11, 2012 by NB Willawaw

[NB Willawaw]

In my experience, most hireboaters tend to start off from their home base and then moor on the towpath each night until they get back to the base again - I rarely see them in marinas using pontoon berths, diesel pumps or the pump out.

 

The issue with this subject is that its very much chicken and egg.

 

Marinas don't want to fit Channel M because they don't think many boats have VHF.

Boats don't want to fit VHF because few facilities use it.

 

Those boats that do have it tend to keep quiet because they only use it when navigating tidal or commercial waterways.

You would never know that we have VHF - there is no visible aerial for most of the time we cruise.

 

Although we have a fixed 25W set, I would probably use a handheld if only a few miles away.

 

I conducted a survey that was as fair as I could make it as I was genuinely interested in the truth and 44% was the figure that came back. Admittedly it was a survey of only about 50 boats (only 50 boats responded).

It could be that many members who didn't have VHF couldn't be bothered to respond or it could be that there is some correlation between those that use Facebook and those that use VHF.

 

We could do a similar survey/poll on here but I don't have good experiences with CWDF polls.

 

A large proportion of canal users are hire boaters who would almost certainly not be using VHF which would limit its usefulness to those marins and boatyards who would bother to use it and i think they would also be limited.

 

 

Cheers

 

Howard

Edited August 11, 2012 by NB Willawaw

[jelunga]

I have no problems if some people want to fit and use VHF on narrowboats. I think the issue would be the value of doing so because I suspect the number of people buying a handset and obtaining the relevant licences would, IMHO, be very limited. A large proportion of canal users are hire boaters who would almost certainly not be using VHF which would limit its usefulness to those marins and boatyards who would bother to use it and i think they would also be limited.

 

 

Cheers

 

Howard

You are not wrong I suspect.

There is a sort of circle here then. The freat advantage of marine band vhf is the lack of plonkers using it and the biggest disadvantage is the lack of plonkers using it!

[luctor et emergo]

I think the figure of 44% of narrowboats having VHF is wildly off the mark. There are about 100 boats in the marina here and there are maybe 10 that have VHF. These are all larger grp cruisers whose owners tend to use them for occasional coastal trip, whereas if you discount those, there are no narrowboats or widebeams with VHF at all.

 

I think that the idea of an easily accessible VHF set that can communicate with inland watterways boaters facilities and other boats is a very good one. What concerns me more though is that as long as potential users have to go through the rigmarole of going on a training course and learning correct radio and emergency procedures just to check if the next marina has a spare mooring, it will always be a non starter. Most inland boat owners can't even be bothered to learn the childishly simple sound signals let alone get involved in VHF licensing and procedures.

 

Great idea that it may be, I think that only those boaters who have a serious need for marine VHF will actually bother, unless the current rules are relaxed, which would then open it to abuse in the same way that CB has been.

 

Roger

 

Roger has the main problems covered, to a tee. Proper radio, needs proper use. If you relax the rules, that won't happen. If you don't relax the rules, there is no point in having VHF on the canal. What is the point me calling my position, and intended approach through a narrow, blind bridge hole, when the boat on the otherside is either a privateer without a set, or a hire boat without a clue?

By all means, use your set if you can, but don't expect everybody else to shell out to conform to your play.

 

 

As for traders benefitting from VHF, if they would, they install it yesterday.

[blackrose]

If people want to use VHF on the canals that's fine with me and if they don't that's fine too. Although VHF isn't widely used on the canals I'm struggling to understand the arguments against those who want to use it.

Edited August 12, 2012 by blackrose

[NB Willawaw]

At the end of the day, I bought my VHF a long time ago. I have no ongoing costs - the licence is free.

 

If marinas and the like aren't interested, it doesn't really cause me a problem. We can continue to ignore the ones that involve a heavy detour off the main canal that we can't contact easily or we can phone those that we have the number to hand for.

 

When we are continually cruising, there is usually enough marinas that we can afford to wait until the next one for whatever service we need. Another day or two usually doesn't inconvenience us.

 

It will never come into play to radio other boats about bridge holes. Although we use VHF, we have no interest in having it on all the time and would normally just switch it on for specifics e.g. calling a Ch.M equipped marina, approaching a staircase lock where a lock-keeper or group of volunteers were using VHF, etc.

 

If I were an off-line marina operator, to my way of thinking, the merit in this idea is two-fold.

 

Firstly, I might get more customers visiting me off the main canal if those with radios knew they could call my office on Channel M and find out if we had visitor berths, if we had wifi in the marina, if our pump-out was working today etc.

 

Secondly, for a spend of £175 for 12 months, I would get a lot of publicity - the first canal marina or two that fit Channel M will get a lot of publicity on the towpath telegraph, forums, Facebook groups, the waterways magazines and so on. People reading this publicity might not be interested in VHF as such, but my marina name would be everywhere for a while - great exposure for small out of the way marinas that struggle to up their profile.

 

I would try it for 12 months and if it didn't work out, I wouldn't renew the licence.

 

I spoke to one marina who fitted it and had no volume of users.

 

"Did you tell anybody I said ?"

 

"Well we told people in the marina" was the reply.

 

"How ?"

 

"By putting a letter on the noticeboard" was the reply.

 

Some of these marina operators are amateurs when it comes to marketing - you only have to look at their attempts on Facebook.

Edited August 12, 2012 by NB Willawaw

[howardang]

At the end of the day, I bought my VHF a long time ago. I have no ongoing costs - the licence is free.

 

If marinas and the like aren't interested, it doesn't really cause me a problem. We can continue to ignore the ones that involve a heavy detour off the main canal that we can't contact easily or we can phone those that we have the number to hand for.

 

When we are continually cruising, there is usually enough marinas that we can afford to wait until the next one for whatever service we need. Another day or two usually doesn't inconvenience us.

 

It will never come into play to radio other boats about bridge holes. Although we use VHF, we have no interest in having it on all the time and would normally just switch it on for specifics e.g. calling a Ch.M equipped marina, approaching a staircase lock where a lock-keeper or group of volunteers were using VHF, etc.

 

If I were an off-line marina operator, to my way of thinking, the merit in this idea is two-fold.

 

Firstly, I might get more customers visiting me off the main canal if those with radios knew they could call my office on Channel M and find out if we had visitor berths, if we had wifi in the marina, if our pump-out was working today etc.

 

Secondly, for a spend of £175 for 12 months, I would get a lot of publicity - the first canal marina or two that fit Channel M will get a lot of publicity on the towpath telegraph, forums, Facebook groups, the waterways magazines and so on. People reading this publicity might not be interested in VHF as such, but my marina name would be everywhere for a while - great exposure for small out of the way marinas that struggle to up their profile.

 

I would try it for 12 months and if it didn't work out, I wouldn't renew the licence.

 

I spoke to one marina who fitted it and had no volume of users.

 

"Did you tell anybody I said ?"

 

"Well we told people in the marina" was the reply.

 

"How ?"

 

"By putting a letter on the noticeboard" was the reply.

 

Some of these marina operators are amateurs when it comes to marketing - you only have to look at their attempts on Facebook.

It might be worth mentioning that there are actually three channels designated for marina use in the UK:- M1, M2 and channel 80. Many marinas who use VHF - mainly coastal - use 80 with M1 and M2 being used by clubs.

 

Cheers

 

Howard

[Timleech]

I do wonder what sort of range would be achieved to/from some marinas in typical canal terrain? My guess is that it could be a lot less than from most marinas as used by the lumpy water brigade.

 

I had it in my head that channel M etc were require to operate on reduced power, but I couldn't find any reference to that online so may have it wrong.

 

Tim