Do You Have VHF Onboard ?

[Chertsey]

"At the end of the day, M stands for Marina - that's what it was designed for. Why should it be exclusive to salt water marinas ?"

 

'Marina' is really a misnomer for canal basins. The clue's in the first three letters - mare means sea.

[NB Willawaw]

No, there is no requirement to use channel M at reduced power to my knowledge.

 

Channel M2 is usually used for racing etc. Ch 80 is an international channel and operators need a full VHF operators licence so this would be a more costly option with no real gain.

 

I suspect range over land would be reduced against a sea path. Also, narrowboat aerials tend to be short and low down, so performance would be affected.

 

That is why I tend to work on an estimate of 5-10 miles, but it will depend on terrain of course - two boats on different lock summits might get a good range..

Edited August 12, 2012 by NB Willawaw

[luctor et emergo]

"At the end of the day, M stands for Marina - that's what it was designed for. Why should it be exclusive to salt water marinas ?"

 

'Marina' is really a misnomer for canal basins. The clue's in the first three letters - mare means sea.

 

Mare is four letters

[Chertsey]

Mare is four letters

So?

 

The clue is in the first three letters that both words have in common.

 

Mare is a four letter Latin word meaning sea, giving rise to the three letter prefix in English words denoting something pertaining to the sea.

 

Ed. because I hadn't realised such a detailed explanation would be required.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Chertsey

[luctor et emergo]

Ahh, so when the recipe tells me to marinate the chicken, I need to put it in the sea....

 

 

 

That is so obvious, I don't understand I could not have realised that before. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Chertsey]

Ahh, so when the recipe tells me to marinate the chicken, I need to put it in the sea....

 

 

 

That is so obvious, I don't understand I could not have realised that before. Thanks for pointing it out.

Look, I know you're being deliberately obtuse, but surely it is obvious that while some words beginning 'mar' are derived from the Latin for sea, not all are. Or I would be even worried about Martin, for one.

[Radiomariner]

I do wonder what sort of range would be achieved to/from some marinas in typical canal terrain? My guess is that it could be a lot less than from most marinas as used by the lumpy water brigade.

 

I had it in my head that channel M etc were require to operate on reduced power, but I couldn't find any reference to that online so may have it wrong.

 

Tim

 

Partly right. It is a requirement to use low power whenever practicable. (Most marine VHF's have a low power setting). A marina would most certainly be a location for that requirement. Some channels do have automatic power restrictions programmed into the equipment. do not know if this applies to "M" (I have been away from seagoing environment for so long I'm loosing touch!)

I also feel if Marine VHF becomes in greater use on our inland waterways, that ALL inland waterways VHF communications should be on low power so as not to cause congestion and interfere with real shipping.

Also, I wish to add, that as a Marine Radio Officer for many years one of the most relaxing things about the "cut" was to "get away from it all" I personally do not desire this development, though agree it might be inevitable.

[Guest]

Look, I know you're being deliberately obtuse, but surely it is obvious that while some words beginning 'mar' are derived from the Latin for sea, not all are. Or I would be even worried about Martin, for one.

 

Sorry Chertsey but ...

 

 

Too subtle for me perhaps.

[luctor et emergo]

Look, I know you're being deliberately obtuse, but surely it is obvious that while some words beginning 'mar' are derived from the Latin for sea, not all are. Or I would be even worried about Martin, for one.

 

What? Are you saying that Martin is not a mermaid?

[Guest]

What? Are you saying that Martin is not a mermaid?

 

 

Not last time I looked....

[NB Willawaw]

I was also a marine radio officer and still work in the industry.

 

I have no interest in listening to static and white noise all day and if you read the thread you will see that is not the objective.

 

As you say it is good practise to use only as much power as necessary. There is no automatic power reduction programmed in to modern sets for the Ch M Marina channel.

 

I didn't mention this high power/low power thing as many people are already struggling with the concept and I didn't want to over complicate things.

 

If I were berthed in the marina and wanted to talk to the office because I was too lazy to walk there or couldn't be bothered to get dressed etc, I would use the 1 Watt setting. If I were cruising a few miles out and wanted to contact them to ask them something, I would use high power/25W.

 

I usually switch down to the low power setting once I have established contact as a matter of course, because I don't like transmitting any further than I need to, but I doubt this is a widespread practice amongst users.

 

I don't feel this is an inevitable move at all - quite the opposite. It will never be compulsory and marinas will still have phone numbers. This topic has never been aimed at those who don't have VHF and have no intention of getting one.

 

I just believe it is a useful and legitimate use of VHF equipment that many of us seem to already have.

 

The bottom line is that we can talk about it all day until the cows come home and it won't make any difference, unless a few of the marinas can see some mileage in it and start fitting VHF in their offices. If that ever happened, we might see some momentum where more boaters might fit, more marinas might fit because the boaters were and the use of Ch M might become widespread in inland marinas as M and Ch80 are in the coastal marinas and in selected areas like the upper reaches of the Thames, Liverpool marina and so on.

 

 

 

Partly right. It is a requirement to use low power whenever practicable. (Most marine VHF's have a low power setting). A marina would most certainly be a location for that requirement. Some channels do have automatic power restrictions programmed into the equipment. do not know if this applies to "M" (I have been away from seagoing environment for so long I'm loosing touch!)

I also feel if Marine VHF becomes in greater use on our inland waterways, that ALL inland waterways VHF communications should be on low power so as not to cause congestion and interfere with real shipping.

Also, I wish to add, that as a Marine Radio Officer for many years one of the most relaxing things about the "cut" was to "get away from it all" I personally do not desire this development, though agree it might be inevitable.

[NB Willawaw]

Uplands Marina at Anderton have at least said they would give it some serious consideration.

Edited August 12, 2012 by NB Willawaw

[Radiomariner]

I was also a marine radio officer and still work in the industry.

 

I have no interest in listening to static and white noise all day and if you read the thread you will see that is not the objective.

 

As you say it is good practise to use only as much power as necessary. There is no automatic power reduction programmed in to modern sets for the Ch M Marina channel.

 

I didn't mention this high power/low power thing as many people are already struggling with the concept and I didn't want to over complicate things.

 

If I were berthed in the marina and wanted to talk to the office because I was too lazy to walk there or couldn't be bothered to get dressed etc, I would use the 1 Watt setting. If I were cruising a few miles out and wanted to contact them to ask them something, I would use high power/25W.

 

I usually switch down to the low power setting once I have established contact as a matter of course, because I don't like transmitting any further than I need to, but I doubt this is a widespread practice amongst users.

 

I don't feel this is an inevitable move at all - quite the opposite. It will never be compulsory and marinas will still have phone numbers. This topic has never been aimed at those who don't have VHF and have no intention of getting one.

 

I just believe it is a useful and legitimate use of VHF equipment that many of us seem to already have.

 

The bottom line is that we can talk about it all day until the cows come home and it won't make any difference, unless a few of the marinas can see some mileage in it and start fitting VHF in their offices. If that ever happened, we might see some momentum where more boaters might fit, more marinas might fit because the boaters were and the use of Ch M might become widespread in inland marinas as M and Ch80 are in the coastal marinas and in selected areas like the upper reaches of the Thames, Liverpool marina and so on.

 

 

 

 

 

Olympic Ceremony over, I'm back!

 

Yes, I know your background. We conversed on this forum (or the other one) some time ago.

I do not think VHF on Inland waterways will be at all popular with any other than those that venture out into tidal/busy/coastal waters.

I do not think it is inevitable. Bad phrasing on my part. I meant to imply that as people realise that marine VHF allows greater range and clarity (beccause of the higher power available and more suitable frequency) that some "increased usage" may be inevitable.

As a BSS examiner I visit quite a lot of Inland waterway Marina's. About half of them have unmanned offices when I visit. I usually have to wander around looking for an owner or manager who is often not even on a mobile phone. The manager of the marina I went to last week for instance was driving a lawnmower and could not even hear his mobile phone ringing he claimed because of the noise. (I could hear it ringing, he'd left it in the office!). For a Marina radio system to work someone has to man the office,or carry a hand held set around all day, I can't see that happening. He he is very busy with maintenance work and general duties around the marina. and boatyard He employs a "Girl Friday" for two hours a day (His daughter I suspect). To pay somebody to permanently man the office I believe to be beyond his budget. I doubt if there will ever be any advantage whatever in him by installing Marine VHF

Edited August 13, 2012 by Radiomariner

[jelunga]

Partly right. It is a requirement to use low power whenever practicable. (Most marine VHF's have a low power setting). A marina would most certainly be a location for that requirement. Some channels do have automatic power restrictions programmed into the equipment. do not know if this applies to "M" (I have been away from seagoing environment for so long I'm loosing touch!)

I also feel if Marine VHF becomes in greater use on our inland waterways, that ALL inland waterways VHF communications should be on low power so as not to cause congestion and interfere with real shipping.

Also, I wish to add, that as a Marine Radio Officer for many years one of the most relaxing things about the "cut" was to "get away from it all" I personally do not desire this development, though agree it might be inevitable.

Hey, you should be grateful I am not pressing for all comms to be HF, and either CW or RTTY!!

[Morat]

I can't see inland use of Marine VHF causing interference with salt water types as a rule, it just doesn't have the range over land. Even over water it's pretty much limited to the visible horizon. Clearly, abuse near the coast could be a problem but it's not going to reach from the Midlands to Liverpool... unless I've got this dramatically wrong?

[mrsmelly]

I can't see inland use of Marine VHF causing interference with salt water types as a rule, it just doesn't have the range over land. Even over water it's pretty much limited to the visible horizon. Clearly, abuse near the coast could be a problem but it's not going to reach from the Midlands to Liverpool... unless I've got this dramatically wrong?

 

Absolutely right. My daily drive has an air draft of 18 feet with the arial mounted at the top bit. We rarely receive anything further downstream than Gunthorpe unless some unknowlegable person is blastin out unecesarily at 25 watts. On little boats like narrowboats etc that ply the river we usualy only pick them up within a mile or so, lots of trees etc in the area. I must just add again that vhf on the narrow canals is not neccesary even tho I and cruising friends always use it, but on serious waterways with commercial traffic it is stupidity not to have it.

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

I can't see inland use of Marine VHF causing interference with salt water types as a rule, it just doesn't have the range over land. Even over water it's pretty much limited to the visible horizon. Clearly, abuse near the coast could be a problem but it's not going to reach from the Midlands to Liverpool... unless I've got this dramatically wrong?

We use to get them chatting about going to the pub in Brunall, but we were only 25 mines off the coast.

[Roger Gunkel]

We use to get them chatting about going to the pub in Brunall, but we were only 25 mines off the coast.

Were you on a minesweeper?

 

Roger

[NB Willawaw]

I think that is a valid and sensible point.

 

Although I think some marinas will benefit from having VHF, it doesn't mean they all would.

 

If their office isn't usually manned, then it would make no sense to employ somebody just for VHF - none at all.

 

Similarly, if the boatyard was on the side of the canal and had an easy-to-stop berth, then it's likely people would just hop off their boat and ask for the service they want. It's debatable whether they would benefit from having VHF.

 

I've never suggested that boaters fit VHF just for this or that every marina should adopt it.

 

However, I believe that there are definitely some that would benefit.

 

For example, some marinas where you have to make a long detour to visit them to ask a question - Whixhall Marina up on the Llangollen, where you have to go through two lift bridges to get into their basin, Roydon Marina on the Stort where you have to go through a lock to get into their marina basin.

 

Occasionally I've experienced a situation where you phone a marina, agree that they have a visitors berth available for you and they give you a berth number.

 

Sometimes, you enter the marina and it's not clear which way to go (especially on the larger ones), sometimes you end up at the wrong berth and although the marina staff can see you from the office going the wrong way, they have no way of contacting you.

 

We have been in to a marina to use their pump-out to find there is a queue - it's not always apparent who is in the queue or where you should moor whilst waiting for your turn. We had an argument once because a narrowboat moved off the pump out berth, having finished their business and we motored in to take their place.

 

We were approached by a very irate boater who said we had jumped the queue - "we didn't see you" I said. I was over there on my berth he said, waiting for that boat to finish..

 

Handheld VHF on M would be very good for a bit of marshalling by marina staff in the busier marinas during peak cruising times.

 

As a BSS examiner I visit quite a lot of Inland waterway Marina's. About half of them have unmanned offices when I visit. I usually have to wander around looking for an owner or manager who is often not even on a mobile phone. The manager of the marina I went to last week for instance was driving a lawnmower and could not even hear his mobile phone ringing he claimed because of the noise. (I could hear it ringing, he'd left it in the office!). For a Marina radio system to work someone has to man the office,or carry a hand held set around all day, I can't see that happening. He he is very busy with maintenance work and general duties around the marina. and boatyard He employs a "Girl Friday" for two hours a day (His daughter I suspect). To pay somebody to permanently man the office I believe to be beyond his budget. I doubt if there will ever be any advantage whatever in him by installing Marine VHF

Edited August 15, 2012 by NB Willawaw

[Timleech]

 

 

We have been in to a marina to use their pump-out to find there is a queue - it's not always apparent who is in the queue or where you should moor whilst waiting for your turn. We had an argument once because a narrowboat moved off the pump out berth, having finished their business and we motored in to take their place.

 

We were approached by a very irate boater who said we had jumped the queue - "we didn't see you" I said. I was over there on my berth he said, waiting for that boat to finish..

 

Handheld VHF on M would be very good for a bit of marshalling by marina staff in the busier marinas during peak cruising times.

 

There used to be a convention that if your tiller bar was in place you were still 'in progress', if it was removed you had stopped for the duration. Much simpler & cheaper than VHF etc., but sadly it has been forgotten by all but a few.

In Belgium they have/had a little red flag with a white rectangle in the middle, which served the same purpose. You took it down when you had stopped your journey.

 

Tim

[NB Willawaw]

I've never heard that convention, Tim.

 

How would it work in the pump out scenario ?

[Timleech]

I've never heard that convention, Tim.

 

How would it work in the pump out scenario ?

 

If you were in the queue, you would keep your tiller in place, same as when in the queue for a lock. If you had, say, stopped there for lunch you would remove it.

 

Tim

[NB Willawaw]

Oh I see what you mean.

 

In this case, the PO berth was only one boat length long. The boat finished their PO and moved off.

The waiting boat was over on his own pontoon mooring, watching. He was a local boat and I got the impression this

is what he does regularly. We were midstream having just come in to use the facility and we were sitting with engine running and

tiller in. As we were closer, we got there first, unaware of the other boats existence.

 

Its possible the marina staff knew he was coming in next - we didn't, having just arrived.

 

A warning on the VHF from the office or marina staff walking around, i.e. you're after "X" would have prevented the rise of blood pressures.

 

So, does the narrowboat that's been on the water point with his tiller in for the last 24 hours mean that he still taking on water ??

Edited August 15, 2012 by NB Willawaw

[NB Willawaw]

This is a prime example why I would like to see some marinas fit Channel M VHF in their office. A tight entrance and no telephone number on the signage at the front door. The ability to make a quick call to the marina office to ask if they have a berth for a few nights would save a wasted approach through that gap !!

 

[jelunga]

I was also a marine radio officer and still work in the industry.

 

I have no interest in listening to static and white noise all day and if you read the thread you will see that is not the objective.

 

As you say it is good practise to use only as much power as necessary. There is no automatic power reduction programmed in to modern sets for the Ch M Marina channel.

 

I didn't mention this high power/low power thing as many people are already struggling with the concept and I didn't want to over complicate things.

 

If I were berthed in the marina and wanted to talk to the office because I was too lazy to walk there or couldn't be bothered to get dressed etc, I would use the 1 Watt setting. If I were cruising a few miles out and wanted to contact them to ask them something, I would use high power/25W.

 

I usually switch down to the low power setting once I have established contact as a matter of course, because I don't like transmitting any further than I need to, but I doubt this is a widespread practice amongst users.

 

I don't feel this is an inevitable move at all - quite the opposite. It will never be compulsory and marinas will still have phone numbers. This topic has never been aimed at those who don't have VHF and have no intention of getting one.

 

I just believe it is a useful and legitimate use of VHF equipment that many of us seem to already have.

 

The bottom line is that we can talk about it all day until the cows come home and it won't make any difference, unless a few of the marinas can see some mileage in it and start fitting VHF in their offices. If that ever happened, we might see some momentum where more boaters might fit, more marinas might fit because the boaters were and the use of Ch M might become widespread in inland marinas as M and Ch80 are in the coastal marinas and in selected areas like the upper reaches of the Thames, Liverpool marina and so on.

Oh no. Not another Marconi sahib!