Flywheel starter ring

[Dorman]

It may be time to change to starter ring on my Dorman 3AL as its getting a bit worn, Anyone have any experience or sources of new one--may need to be made and is bolted on.

 

Many Thanks

Simon

[RLWP]

Sounds like a job for Tim Leech

 

Richard

[casper ghost]

There's a firm in Shrewsbury that make bolt on starter rings, just can't think of the name now...

Casp'

 

FW Thornton of Shrewsbury. http://www.fwthornton.co.uk/5.html

Edited June 21, 2012 by casper ghost

[Timleech]

There's a firm in Shrewsbury that make bolt on starter rings, just can't think of the name now...

Casp'

 

FW Thornton of Shrewsbury. http://www.fwthornton.co.uk/5.html

 

Don't hold your breath.

To the best of my knowledge they don't make anything, but they do buy up old stock of stuff like pistons & rings and yes, some starter ring gears.

 

What size is it?

 

Tim

[by'eck]

It may be time to change to starter ring on my Dorman 3AL as its getting a bit worn, Anyone have any experience or sources of new one--may need to be made and is bolted on.

 

Many Thanks

Simon

 

Marine Power Services offer starter rings for Lister JP,JS,JK & Gardner L2, LW, LX.

 

Seems likely as they have rebuilt Dorman's as well, they may have a source to suit them.

[Dorman]

Thanks everbody will make some enquiries

 

Simon

[steamraiser2]

Before you rush off and buy one, or have a new one made ouch!, is your starter ring gear just worn on one side? If it is take it off the flywheel and turn it round. They will run on for years like that. Believe me you don't want to know what a made to order starter ring costs.

[Timleech]

Before you rush off and buy one, or have a new one made ouch!, is your starter ring gear just worn on one side? If it is take it off the flywheel and turn it round. They will run on for years like that. Believe me you don't want to know what a made to order starter ring costs.

 

Sounds like a bodge to me :D

 

You could ask these people, they might possibly be able to point you in the right direction. I know no more about them than their website tells me.

 

If you're completely stuck, yes I could probably make one for you.

 

Tim

[steamraiser2]

It absolutely is ,Tim, for sure. A brand new bespoke JP flywheel ring gear is around £650 to have manufactured to the proper specification and profile.Easy enough to have done but a hefty cost. Turning it round may give a time extension until an old stock one turns up or the piggy bank fills. There are always Chinese ones made of cheese of course. They are still making Dormans under licence although not for EU markets.

[BEngo]

Before you rush off and buy one, or have a new one made ouch!, is your starter ring gear just worn on one side? If it is take it off the flywheel and turn it round. They will run on for years like that. Believe me you don't want to know what a made to order starter ring costs.

 

 

If it can be got off in one piece then it only needs to be rotated by either 45 degress (2/4 cylinders) or 30 deg (3/6) cyl. The ring gear always wears most in the same place as the engine stops, and the engine almost always stops on or very near TDC on (one of) the compression stroke (s). So moving the gear on, or back, a bit will find new teeth for the pinion to start to work into.

 

Just as much work as turning it round, of course,and still a less-than-perfect solution, but you still have the lead-in on the teeth, which is not there if the ring is turned round so its perhaps 75% of a bodge!

 

N

[Dorman]

I have done a bit more inspection of the flywheel and starter ring and enclose some photos to see if anyone can shed some light on the problem.

 

http://www3.snapfish.co.uk/snapfishuk/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=16561863011/a=3309103011_3309103011/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfishuk/

 

I had to source a new starter and the problem has occurred since then.

The starter is a CAV pre-engage type with a solonoid that pushes it up on a machined spiral slot to allow smooth (not) engagement before the power goes across to the main brushes and it spins up to speed.

 

 

The starter no of teeth and shape are identical as is the face to face dimensions--in fact the new and old motors are identical. The old bendix gear on the old starter was not damaged but l suppose the starter gear and ring gear have worn in together over 40+ years?

 

To me the flywheel seems ok? No badly worn sections and when l mark the flywheel the engine seems to stop in 1 of 3 different positions and the teeth are ok when l check throught the starter hole.

Even with no teeth damaged or worn the starter is still struggling to mesh. There is a slight burr on the leading face which l suppose stops the bendix gear engaging smoothly before the main brushes whizz it around. Resulting in a nasty sort of clacking occasionally before sliding it onto the rest of the gear and whizzing it round with no problem. This is not something l want to encourage as it appears to spreading the front of the teeth into more of a burr. This may well be the problem--would a debur of the teeth help?

 

The teeth dont seemed worn enough for the clacking sound to be the to gears slipping over each other.

i suppose the wear on the ring is gradual and all around the ring and still possibly bad enough to create the noise.

 

One more thing. The manual quotes a clearance for the CAV starter onto the starter ring which has never been altered as it sits tight into a machined recess in the bellhousing. It worked ok up to know.

 

Many thanks as the whole lot may have to come out--the flywheel is not loose either btw

 

Simon

[Timleech]

I have done a bit more inspection of the flywheel and starter ring and enclose some photos to see if anyone can shed some light on the problem.

 

http://www3.snapfish.co.uk/snapfishuk/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=16561863011/a=3309103011_3309103011/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfishuk/

 

I had to source a new starter and the problem has occurred since then.

The starter is a CAV pre-engage type with a solonoid that pushes it up on a machined spiral slot to allow smooth (not) engagement before the power goes across to the main brushes and it spins up to speed.

 

 

The starter no of teeth and shape are identical as is the face to face dimensions--in fact the new and old motors are identical. The old bendix gear on the old starter was not damaged but l suppose the starter gear and ring gear have worn in together over 40+ years?

 

To me the flywheel seems ok? No badly worn sections and when l mark the flywheel the engine seems to stop in 1 of 3 different positions and the teeth are ok when l check throught the starter hole.

Even with no teeth damaged or worn the starter is still struggling to mesh. There is a slight burr on the leading face which l suppose stops the bendix gear engaging smoothly before the main brushes whizz it around. Resulting in a nasty sort of clacking occasionally before sliding it onto the rest of the gear and whizzing it round with no problem. This is not something l want to encourage as it appears to spreading the front of the teeth into more of a burr. This may well be the problem--would a debur of the teeth help?

 

The teeth dont seemed worn enough for the clacking sound to be the to gears slipping over each other.

i suppose the wear on the ring is gradual and all around the ring and still possibly bad enough to create the noise.

 

One more thing. The manual quotes a clearance for the CAV starter onto the starter ring which has never been altered as it sits tight into a machined recess in the bellhousing. It worked ok up to know.

 

Many thanks as the whole lot may have to come out--the flywheel is not loose either btw

 

Simon

 

I can't see the photos without signing up, which I am not going to do, except for one which shows the pinion of what looks like a BS5 starter.

I would seriously suggest, given your symptoms, that you look at the clearance between starter pinion and ring gear before going any further.

Why did you need a new starter? Maybe the old one had a worn pinion, which would have given a greater effective clearance?

 

Tim

[Dorman]

I can't see the photos without signing up, which I am not going to do, except for one which shows the pinion of what looks like a BS5 starter.

I would seriously suggest, given your symptoms, that you look at the clearance between starter pinion and ring gear before going any further.

Why did you need a new starter? Maybe the old one had a worn pinion, which would have given a greater effective clearance?

 

Tim

 

cos orignal was not repairable.

 

l am going to check clearance tomorrow. Not easy as its not visible.

 

Simon

[bizzard]

Put some plasticine on the front of the leading starter gear teeth,offer up the starter into its location,remove and measure clearance by thickness of plasticine left where it touched the ring gear.