solar panel fitting

[Ex- Member]

So theoretical maximum current for 2 is 16.4A

 

It doesn't say whether they are MC3 or MC4 connectors. You'll need to check this.

 

 

 

Hi Chris

Checked the panels today, definitely MC4

I found some tutorials on the internet about the connectors connecting, couldn't be more simple really, It seems I can connect to the charge controller from the panel with already made up leads and plugs, plenty on flea bay, I'll shop around though as I noticed cheaper cable on other sites.

Thanks for the amperage also, stupid me wasn't taking into account Neg and Poz sharing the load

[Chris Pink]

The connectors are crimped with a special crimp tool so in most instances it will best to get them ready made (you only need one male and one female Y and the tails)

[Ex- Member]

Julian - build the frame!! I cant wait to see pictures of it!

 

Julian - build the frame!! I cant wait to see pictures of it!

 

Hi Lewis

 

Managed to get started today, bloody weather here is awful though, would have been nice to make it outside in the sunshine. Still I've finished the outer frame although it will be coated in a dark Green Cuprinol before final assembly.

 

I've used 150mm x 60mm galvanised corner brackets as the corners are mitred to give a nice finish externally. As the frame timber is only 20.5mm the SS screws don't get that strong a fixing so I've used some SS coach bolts to back up the fixing.`

 

 

 

The large angle brackets are fixed at what will be the bottom of the frame, the gap above is exactly the depth of the solar panel frame. I milled up some Oak strip which is glued and screwed to the inner frame giving a 12mm ledge for the frame to sit on. When the panels are finally fitted into the frame, 2mm neoprene strip will be adhered to the inside edge of the outer frame, then the solar panels slotted in to give a water tight seal all around.

 

I offered up the solar panels to the frame earlier just to be sure of the fit, mm perfect so should go together nice & tight.

 

 

The 4 top corners of the frame will have flat corner bracing brackets fitted to ensure the frame stays tight to the panel frame, Tried to get these brackets in Stainless Steel but couldn't find any anywhere. All screws and bolts are SS I'll probably coat the outer frame in a yacht varnish when finished even though the flat brackets are Zinc plated.

 

 

Just have to fit the inner struts now to support the panels in the centre. My idea of mounting this on a ball might well work, I was surprised how rigid the frame is now without the addition of more struts. Fingers crossed, good weather tomorrow and I might have it finished.

 

 

[lewisericeric]

Great Julian - love it. Good work man....now just get yourself up here and make me a frame too

[matty40s]

Great Julian - love it. Good work man....now just get yourself up here and make me a frame too

knew that was coming....

[Grace and Favour]

Hi Lewis

 

 

 

 

 

The large angle brackets are fixed at what will be the bottom of the frame, the gap above is exactly the depth of the solar panel frame. I milled up some Oak strip which is glued and screwed to the inner frame giving a 12mm ledge for the frame to sit on. When the panels are finally fitted into the frame, 2mm neoprene strip will be adhered to the inside edge of the outer frame, then the solar panels slotted in to give a water tight seal all around.

 

 

I offered up the solar panels to the frame earlier just to be sure of the fit, mm perfect so should go together nice & tight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice job sir - - - A Quick question if I may

 

Do these panels expand with summer heat - if they do . . will your 2mm neoprene seal have enough elasticity to handle it?

[matty40s]

Nice job sir - - - A Quick question if I may

 

Do these panels expand with summer heat - if they do . . will your 2mm neoprene seal have enough elasticity to handle it?

 

I don't think they do Young MrGrace, my panel is secured to woodwork and doesn't see any stresses in summer.

The panel surface is very thin, with ventilation behind. If the panel expanded, I would expect to see slight gaps at the corners where the aluminium frame meets, I have not noticed any.

Edited April 24, 2012 by matty40s

[Ex- Member]

Do these panels expand with summer heat - if they do . . will your 2mm neoprene seal have enough elasticity to handle it?

Wouldn't think so, the frames are very solid. The neoprene will have a little give, but at only 2mm thick probably only 1mm at most. The frame will shrink in the summer and expand in the winter. I'll use Stixall sealant in the gap above the neoprene edge. This should expand or contract with the timber. I wan't to keep those gaps watertight as if water gets in during winter and freezes it would force the frame away from the panels edge.

[Grace and Favour]

I don't think they do MrGrace, my panel is secured to woodwork and doesn't see any stresses in summer.

The panel surface is very thin, with ventilation behind. If the panel expanded, I would expect to see slight gaps at the corners where the aluminium frame meets, I have not noticed any.

 

'Young Mr Grace' - please!

 

Wouldn't think so, the frames are very solid. The neoprene will have a little give, but at only 2mm thick probably only 1mm at most. The frame will shrink in the summer and expand in the winter. I'll use Stixall sealant in the gap above the neoprene edge. This should expand or contract with the timber. I want to keep those gaps watertight as if water gets in during winter and freezes it would force the frame away from the panels edge.

 

Super - - thanks for the explanation . . . . .

 

I admit I know damn-all about thermodynamics and expansion rates - - other than the most basic principles . . I assumed (!) that the panels themselves remained weathertight (otherwise there wouldn't be x squillion of them strapped to roofs across the world . . . but I realised that they could still be constructed in such a way that the whole kit n caboodle expanded of course.

 

Cheers chaps!

[by'eck]

I agree, this was one of the things Gibbo kept banging on at the BSS about.

 

Ignoring the BSS I suppose the question is do you fuse the alternator lead near the battery so a short can not set fire to the cable/boat and risk the eventual fuse/holder failure damaging the alternator or do you not have a fuse and risk a fire.

 

Charging wise direct alternator connection is probably best but safety wise I am not so sure.

 

An interesting issue and a clear case where BSS regs need careful interpretation or dare I say even change I suspect the majority of new boats have the alternators wired directly to the batteries whether this is a fused cable or not. Do they fail to get their RCD and BSC certificates - I think not, common sense prevails.

 

Ironically my well respected prolific boatbuilder had to be persuaded to wire all feeds through the battery isolator. Normally he wires the fused Combi or charger and the alternator direct. I prefer a battery isolator to be just that though, and accept the responsibility for it being turned on before any battery charging takes place.

 

I may at a later date add a second battery isolator to be normally left on and route the Combi, alternator, bilge pump, alarm etc. through that.

 

My thoughts on the fusing issue has always been if the cable run is short and mechanically sound in terms of insulation, support and with no potential for chaffing, a fuse is not necessary unless the device its feeding specifically needs it for its own protection.

[Ark Right]

I suspect the majority of new boats have the alternators wired directly to the batteries whether this is a fused cable or not.

 

 

Hi Richard

Do you have any evidence of the above statement?

 

A

[by'eck]

Hi Richard

Do you have any evidence of the above statement?

 

A

 

That's why I used the word suspect. I do have direct evidence from my boat builder of course who build up to ten boats a year.

 

Do you have evidence of any new boats that do have their alternators wired via an isolator? - apart from mine

[Ex- Member]

Managed to get some more done on the solar array today. Now beginning construction of the inner frame.

This is the central hub of the frame and will be taking all of the weight from the array. Ran out of SS coach bolts so couldn't quite finish it today, and there's 4 more flat angle bracing brackets to secure the central hub to the outer frame.

 

The square section in the centre will have some 18mm plywood boarded over the square flush to the outer edges, I'll then router a hole the correct size so to accept the large ball. It's designed a little like the underside of an extending dining table with splay legs so to absorb most of the weight without the whole array flexing too much.

Still needs a couple of coats of Cuprinol and yacht varnish

[lewisericeric]

what "ball" are you going to use Julian - im thinkin of this myself, somehow, but wouldn't know what ball to use for the system to rotate on?

[Ex- Member]

what "ball" are you going to use Julian - im thinkin of this myself, somehow, but wouldn't know what ball to use for the system to rotate on?

 

I've had a good look around and came up with a few ideas.

Bearing in mind the height you want the panel to sit, don't forget you need to navigate so it shouldn't obstruct your view.

 

Basket ball around 9 inch Di

Medicine ball Different sizes

Round plastic buoy 11 inches Di

 

I do favour this though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330720021515?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_500wt_1169

 

As it's extremely durable and can withstand a lot of pressure. The top section would go up inside the frame, might need trimming off the very top to fit. It's about 12.5 inches diameter but of course air filled so possibly some adjustment, It will also have some shock absorbency which would be useful.

 

I'll need to rig up a bowl type base to locate it at the bottom and create the swivel, possibly a stainless steel bowl set in a wood box base scribed to the roof's shape where to be located, If I use rubber trim on the contact areas to the roof it won't need fixing, the concentrated weight will hold it in situ. The 4 corners of the array will be secured with these http://www.bungeeco.com/product_detail.php?id=128

 

quality rubber straps using 4 eye bolts in the roof. and Eye plates fixed to the array http://www.steelgear.co.uk/home.php?cat=325

These will hold the array level or flat for cruising or if just to leave the array flat if away. Just unhook when you want to swivel the array.

 

 

[lewisericeric]

Thanks julian - what great ideas and good detail - even I understand all that! Id like to see pictures of the "bowl" you're going to sit the ball in though. Customised or just going to try and find something that'll accomodate your ball??

 

One other thing....seeing as you have a 500w mono array, and im going to have a 720w poly array, it'd be interesting for us to do some comparisons when we're both up and running and if we're having similar weather days. What do you say?? Especially even more so as it looks like we'll both be going for the Outback 80amp MPPT controller. I think this could be useful for us and as a test to see how mono and poly differ. Would probably be helpful for other members as well who are thinking of getting their own solar array?

[Ex- Member]

Thanks julian - what great ideas and good detail - even I understand all that! Id like to see pictures of the "bowl" you're going to sit the ball in though. Customised or just going to try and find something that'll accomodate your ball??

 

One other thing....seeing as you have a 500w mono array, and im going to have a 720w poly array, it'd be interesting for us to do some comparisons when we're both up and running and if we're having similar weather days. What do you say?? Especially even more so as it looks like we'll both be going for the Outback 80amp MPPT controller. I think this could be useful for us and as a test to see how mono and poly differ. Would probably be helpful for other members as well who are thinking of getting their own solar array?

 

Hi Lewis

I'm still waiting for the buoy I mentioned, should be here tomorrow. I'm intending to sit the buoy/ball in a stainless steel dish or shallow bowl. I'll set this in a box structure made from 18mm plywood, It will need to span 2 ribs on the roof so to distribute weight evenly, so will be around 18 inches long by say 15 inches wide with the bowl set dead centre. I'll bevel the box edges to sit flat to the roof steel and curve the ends so the box sits flush. I'll then adhere rubber strip to those edges so it won't move on the roof so no need to do any fixing to steel, the weight of the array will hold it in place.

 

Great idea comparing panel production It could give some useful information to other members so I'm up for that. I've had a good browse around for other MPPT controllers but to be honest I still prefer the Outback, the 5 year guarantee alone is quite valuable as if you had to pay for an extended guarantee on an item like that it would cost a couple of hundred quid over 4 years anyway. Plus the data it collects and stores would help in our comparisons, but also valuable information anyway that could be used to up performance.

 

I managed to finish the frame today all but routering out the hole for the Buoy.

 

This is the section that will accept the top of the buoy, there's another 35 mm depth to the back of the panel so hopefully enough room to accept a good circumference of the ball, I'll have to rig something to hold the ball in place, I'll suss that when It gets here.

 

 

This is the centre hub, I'l use a bevelled router to cut the hole that accepts the buoy so the sides meet neater that it would against a square cut circle edge. The buoy I've ordered is White BTW Lynn didn't like the Red ones This is why I've had to wait for it as their mostly Red Had to wait for a White one to appear on Flea bay.

 

 

Finally got it coated in dark Green Cuprinol too, I'll only varnish the outer frame as the internal frame won't be getting wet other than possible rain splash. I probably won't get it finished tomorrow, and I'm off to Scotland for ten days on Friday so it won't be completely finished for a couple of weeks.

 

All in all I'm pretty happy with it, I'm confident it'll do the job and once fitted will be pretty maintenance free other than keeping the panels clean. I hasn't really cost that much either, here's a quick breakdown.

 

Q deck timber 95mm x 21mm £21.00

8 x 150mm x 150mm x 60mm corner brackets. £14.00

4 x 60mm x 50mm corner brackets £ 1.50

20 x Stainless Steel coach bolts £ 4.00

Stainless steel screws 20mm £ 2.50

Stainless steel screws 40mm £ 2.00

Stainless steel screws 50mm £ 2.00

8 x flat angle zinc corner brace 150mm £ 6.20

Ply wood £ 4.00

Buoy £17.00

 

Total £64.00

 

Bottom box with bowl probably around a tenner.

 

Some of the stuff above I already had so hasn't actually cost me that in total. But a ball park figure for anyone wanting to make something similar.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Julynian

[lewisericeric]

Great stuff Julian - quick question, what sort of an angle do you think you're going to be able to achieve with the panels.

 

Im thinking of getting these: http://www.alfrescobay.co.uk/auction_details.php?auction_search=1&auction_id=101310&start=10&option=basic_search&basic_search=brackets&keywords_search=brackets&limit=10&item_type=all

 

However, the guy said that the max width of the panel to get a full 45 degree angle that these brackets can provide should be no more than 540mm, and our panels are 994mm, so he said that i wouldn't get a a maximum of a 45 degree angle on my panels but could still use them.

 

However, I like these, as it means that I dont have to attempt to build something like you've done (but for three panels - I cant line mine up together like you as Im on a NB not a widebeam ,and I know Id never make as good a job as you've done on yours) . I'm just worried with these brackets, Its not going to be that much different to having the panels just laying flat on the roof!

[Ex- Member]

Great stuff Julian - quick question, what sort of an angle do you think you're going to be able to achieve with the panels.

 

Im thinking of getting these: http://www.alfrescob...0&item_type=all

 

However, the guy said that the max width of the panel to get a full 45 degree angle that these brackets can provide should be no more than 540mm, and our panels are 994mm, so he said that i wouldn't get a a maximum of a 45 degree angle on my panels but could still use them.

 

However, I like these, as it means that I dont have to attempt to build something like you've done (but for three panels - I cant line mine up together like you as Im on a NB not a widebeam ,and I know Id never make as good a job as you've done on yours) . I'm just worried with these brackets, Its not going to be that much different to having the panels just laying flat on the roof!

[lewisericeric]

Not sure if this is my browser, but all I can see on the last message Julian, is a quote/reply of my previous message?

[Ex- Member]

Not sure if this is my browser, but all I can see on the last message Julian, is a quote/reply of my previous message?

 

 

Nice find Lewis,

 

 

I was looking for brackets like those for ages after seeing some onanother members boat similar but without the knob adjustment. TBH I would go for those or something similar on a NB much simpler and you can probably line them up centrally through the roof length which would look neat, and the curvature of the roof gives you a slightly deeper angle when angling side to side. It's unlikely you'll need 45 degrees in the summer as the sun is quitehigh over the U.K through summer. Sun is lower in the sky through winter.

 

 

I won't get 45 degrees from my array, on side to side I'll get 30 and front to back about 25 that's ball park, it depends on the height i set the centre of the array. I might get it steeper but have to assess how high I can go without impairing visibility, about 15 inches is about max reallyalthough that was roughly eyeing it up. The side to side slope is about 2 to 1slope which is 27 degrees but there's a bit extra where the roof curves away.So to measure the degrees you can achieve you need central height and lengthfrom centre to edge of panel.

 

 

Just bear in mind with those brackets I've a feeling they were designed for 12 volt panels which are smaller, My panels are 19 kilos each just under 42 pounds, so check that the bracket can take that kind of weight.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Julynian

[lewisericeric]

Cheers J

 

I called up the guy who supplies them as mine also weigh 19kg and the guy said that they should be able to take 19kg - they'll be two on each panel after all so no one bracket will be taking the full 19kg weight.

 

 

Those brackets then, are 19cm high, and half a panel is 497mm wide. To get degrees do i do: 497 \ 19 = 26 degrees max?

[Ex- Member]

Cheers J

 

I called up the guy who supplies them as mine also weigh 19kg and the guy said that they should be able to take 19kg - they'll be two on each panel after all so no one bracket will be taking the full 19kg weight.

 

 

Those brackets then, are 19cm high, and half a panel is 497mm wide. To get degrees do i do: 497 \ 19 = 26 degrees max?

 

497mm lets say 50cm / 19cm = 2.6 to 1 ----------- 2 to 1 ratio is 27 degrees so I reckon about 23 degrees. There's a proper calculation for this but I just can't remember how it goes.

 

You could mount the brackets on wooden blocks to add height though. So fit a wooden blocks to the roof, big enough to accept the base of the bracket a 10cm high block will give you 29cm high / 50cm length gives a ratio of 1.7 to 1 just over 30 degrees.

 

Remember to get 45 degrees the height has to be equal to half the length on a flat surface. So achieving 45 degrees on any boat will be difficult.

Sorry Lewis I got that wrong

To get 45 degrees the height has to be equal to the length, so 50cm length will require 50cm high, which is difficult to achieve.

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2012 by Julynian

[Grace and Favour]

Cheers J

 

I called up the guy who supplies them as mine also weigh 19kg and the guy said that they should be able to take 19kg - they'll be two on each panel after all so no one bracket will be taking the full 19kg weight.

 

 

Those brackets then, are 19cm high, and half a panel is 497mm wide. To get degrees do i do: 497 \ 19 = 26 degrees max?

 

I like the look of those brackets Eric . . . . but did I read the price correctly? - - - £35 per pair? (in aluminium!!)

 

I would think you should be able to get a local fabricator to make them in stainless for that - (if not cheaper!) (and then you could make them a little higher to improve the panels angle of attack

[lewisericeric]

I like the look of those brackets Eric . . . . but did I read the price correctly? - - - £35 per pair? (in aluminium!!)

 

 

 

LOL the number of times I get called eric on this forum.! I should never have made a username which mashed up my name ....L.E.W.I.S with an old dead cat's name...E.R.I.C

Edited April 25, 2012 by lewisericeric