Why do some of you people use so much electrici

[nb maggie]

Why do some of you people use soooo much electricity.

 

My two 12v 110A leisure batteries and single alternator do me fine. I have no inverter. Gas fridge, no microwave, gas oven, stove, dual calorifier, gas C/H. All the usual lights and pumps. I have a good modern but basic boat.

 

For a stereo I have a really good car 4 speaker Radio/CD/MP3 with woofer, Computer - I use a good laptop for which I have a 12v adapter, which also doubles as a DVD and TV via a USB TV adapter and connects to the line-in on the CD for ‘home cinema’. 12v adapter for mobile phone, a 12v drill and a razor and that’s about it. I don’t live aboard permanently but have for extended periods. The only issue I would have to resolve if I lived aboard all the time would be washing and ironing – may have to be the launderette or laundry service.

 

My cruises plus the odd re-charge from the shore line at the mooring (only used for the battery charge) does me fine. I put 5 quid on my shore line last May and there is still 3.60 left. I got a new Honda Gen with the boat and this is now in my Garage as I never used it.

 

If you are going to use a boat, think laterally about your energy use. I would suggest the following:

 

1. Gas cooker – the gas risks are overstated.

 

2.Gas Fridge, don’t worry about the smaller size – we all put too much stuff in our fridges. Food hygiene and better grocery management remove the need to bung all sorts in the fridge.

 

3. Learn to cook and dump the microwave. It’s amazing what you can cook on your wood/coal stove – that’s what they were for originally for.

 

4.Cooking properly from raw ingredients rather than cook/chill stuff gives you better use of storage and reduces the demand on the fridge.

 

5. Do you really need a freezer – probably don’t.

 

6. Do you really need all those electric kitchen aids, most of this can be done manually – learn how to do it.

 

7. Look at laptops for computer, DVD, TV etc they are designed to use less power than normal computers and CRT TVs.

 

8. How many devices can you get that use batteries, then use Ni Cads that can be re-charged from 12v at low power consumption times or when the engine is running.

 

9. Use 12v devices rather than 240 ones where possible.

 

10. Tea light candles in enclosed storm lamp type lights (for safety) make nice mood lights.

 

It seems to me that too many people try to make their boat a floating semi-detached house.

[Richard Bustens]

Hi N,C &R

well ime probably the main culpreit for this, but everything i have done is with a reason, that i think is sound.

Firstly Gas scares the pants off me, so i went compleatly gas free, as well as not wanting any gas on board there is also the point i wanted to be self suficient when iced up someware for weeks on end with no supplies available, i know that i will still need fuel oil but i can store quite a lot of that.

With having no gas i needed a means of cooking, i looked at oil but decided not to as it takes so long to get up to temp and then heats the boat up ,good in winter but not so in summer, i also looked at solid fule but the mess put me off and you still have to store large volumes of fuel.

So i went for electric, this ment that i needed some means of generating my supply, the cooker with everything on needs 11500w, now i know that it will probably never be used with the lot on at once ,but you have to start someware, so i bought a 11500w generator and probably could have got away with a 8000w one but the cost diferance was only £500 so i thought that was false economy.

I should only need to run the gen set when cooking or if i need to use the water imersion heater.

I have also bypassed one of the rings on the cooker so i dont have to run the gen set at night and it will run from the inverter.

The engine is a slow running Gardner 2 lw on which i have a 170ah 24v alternater fitted that charge the two start batteries each 85 AH and the two bowthruster batteries each 110 AH as well as the six main domestic ones that are 260 Ah each.

Now i will be the first to admit that most of this is over the top, but i should be able to be self sufficent for six months at a push.

The equipment i have on board is a mixture of 24v and 240 v with fridge and seporate freezer being the main user of eletric and the reason for the large batteries, but i should be able to leave the boat for a week without them going flat.

Heating is by a traditional cooking range in the boatmans and a 10 K Eberspatcher, anain over the top but the califier is 100ltr and will take some heating up.

I suspect my running costs will be similar to any other boat with gas heating and cooking etc, but i wont have to be lugging gas cylinders up and down the bank and swapping them over in the middle of winter.

[Alastair]

I'm in with nb Maggie here. Oil lamps are good, too.

 

I use Gas water heating, and a gas cooker. Cooking (on average) for 2 adults and 2 children, one cylinder lasts me about 2 months. Always carry a spare - that's 4 month's worth.

[dor]

ER nb Maggie:

 

I seem to find myself in almost complete agreement here! (although I will stick with my (12v) electric fridge).

 

I can see a point in a liveaboard needing a washer-dryer, and maybe an iron. But then I know people who run theirs off an inverter without having a huge battery bank.

[Martin]

Maggie - if you follow your own advice, using manual equipment instead of electric kitchen utensils for example, then washing should pose no problem to you.

You will simply fill a large tub with water at the water point and set to with a dolly and lots of elbow grease.

I'm sure you could find a rock to thrash it against if you have any really stubborn stains!

 

Some of us like to live above the "basic" level - so I have a proper hi-fi, proper TV, VCR and computer.

My wife uses a Braun hand blender and Kenwood Chef - the big semi-pro thing.

Just because we live on a boat shouldn't mean we have to compromise either on comfort or labour-saving devices.

 

We DO however use a solid fuel range that is powered mostly by wood which we collect and chop ourselves and which is used for cooking throughout the cooler months.

 

We don't have the "luxury" of a shore supply as you seem to!

Shore-line - what a wuss!!!!

 

There is a HUGE difference - psychologically as well as physically - between spending extended periods aboard and actually living on board with no home to retreat to if something breaks or things get tough.

 

A floating semi-detached house is an interesting idea but this implies that you want permanent neighbours.

Personally I will stick with my floating detached residence - with its mod cons!

[DHutch]

i guess it depends apon what your trying to acheve

 

On emilyanne we two 24v 110ah lesure batterys, which are charge from a sterling chager (and maybe the altenator, when we geting set up properly)

- these run the water pump the lights a car stereo/cd and, occationaly, the fridge for a bit.

 

-we cook on gas,

-heat our water with the steam (or gas, or of the stove)

-heat the boat with our squirel stove, which "gravity" feeds three rads, and one coil of the calorifyer

-we have an 24v cordless drill, which can eather be charged of mains when we have some, or operated of the 24v ring

 

and then we do also have a little honda genny which powers the 240v hammer drill which we use for fluing the boiler

- but once we got the alternator puting plenty of juice in we might look at geting a inverter for the drill

 

 

 

having sayed which, if we had room (less of the steam engine) and i was living aboard, i thin the first thing i would buy is a washing machine!!

 

daniel

[Alastair]

NB Maggie *does* have a hi-fi, entertainment equipment!

 

Washing is the main problem - not just power, but room. Once I've sorted out my heating, it is my next main task.

 

Hand-washing just isn't practical - it's the spinning out and drying the clothes that is a problem. Yes, I do know what a mangle is! Just don't have room to store one. 4 people generate an awful lot of washing, especially when one is a smelly teenager.

[Khayamanzi]

OK I have to add to this as I have already boldly announced my electric consumption! I am a self confessed gadget-a-holic with a traditional heart! If people genuinely wnat to live a more modest lifestyle, and time and their employment permits,) then that's fine with me but I believe firmly that if it can be done and you want it - why not? There is a danger that some people, (and I'm not for one minute suggesting anyone here,) have some sort of reverse snobbery about this and openly enjoy lording their basic existence as a 'better than thou' way to live. Sure there are many ecological benefits to simpler living but as a single person, I still contribute to saving energy living on my boat as opposed to a small cottage or house. I like my luxury and you can guarantee that so would the old carriers in the working days if it was both possible and economically feasible to have on board!

 

A have often been, (and still am to an extent,) envious of those who live simpler lives but unfortunately until I retire, win the lottery, inherit a million or decide to sponge off society in general I find that my current life-style neither allows it or indeed wants it!!

 

I await the curses bode upon me!

[Richard Bustens]

Thats good then Andy i will see if i can swop the 12K gen set for a 18K one then i can run a play station as well

 

Hi Alister

4 people generate an awful lot of washing, especially when one is a smelly teenager.

 

That will be a boy then!

Edited December 15, 2004 by Richard Bustens

[John Orentas]

NB Maggie.

 

A kindred spirit, a like mind. I have thought for a long time that having an electric cooker on your boat is the logic of the madhouse.

 

Everyone seems to have persuaded themselves that, gas is dangerous, solid fuel is messy, diesel fuel is slow and expensive.

 

Is gas so dangerous? If a pipe gets disconnected things would be pretty desparate but so would a simillar thing happening to the brakes of your car on the motorway. The point is it never happens. Certain people and agencies keep feeding us with this image of fireballs and blackened corpses being dragged out of narrowboats, that never happens either.

 

Certainly there are those who have a portable gas ring and a gas bottle connected together with a rubber pipe, we've all seen them. There will always be idiots and no amount of legislation will get rid of them, some may get rid of themselves.

 

Lets have gas cookers, fridges and water heaters manufactured to a good standard and installed in a competant manner.

 

John Squeers

[Richard Bustens]

Well dont sit on the fence then John.

[tomandsophie]

NB Maggie *does* have a hi-fi, entertainment equipment!

 

4 people generate an awful lot of washing, especially when one is a smelly teenager.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Alastair, do you have two children living on board with you? My wife and I are moving aboard our 57' widebeam (10'6" beam) next summer and we are wondering what will it be like when we decide to have children. Any advice?

 

Tom.

[Alastair]

Tom, I first lived on a 32" narrowboat, and had 2 children with me 3 days a week.

 

Now I live on a 46" length, 11"beam dutch barge, have the same 2 kids 3 days a week, plus my 2 step children 4 days a week. As the days overlap, usually 2 days a week there are 2 adult and 4 children - plus any friends coming round to play!

 

Main thing is to keep some floor space completely clear - being able to roll around on the floor with kids, have pillowfights, play boardgames - this is such an important thing to do.

 

Separate areas, when you have older children (mine span 6 - 13yrs) are also important, so they can have time away from each other.

 

Plan for the future - enough room to build in separate sleeping space and space for friends to have sleepovers. This is something I don't have sorted out yet, and it really bugs my kids.

 

With so many living in such a small space, Laundry and condensation are issues. I have good ventilation, but following advice am installing a second small stove in the sleeping area - a second stove (diesel) pulls through air, drying things out.

 

Laundry - it isn't the doing, it is the storing of dirty laundry! A teen son (yup, you guess right, richardB) generates very smelly socks etc. They can stink out a room!

 

I'm thinking of trying one of those hand-pressure wash things - but where will I put that!

 

Boats are great places for kids to grow up on. I have friends who moved off boats as their kids got older. The kids preferred the boats.

[dor]

I think the answer to the teenage dirty laundry problem is to get a fisherman's keep net and hang it over the side. Put in the propwash when you run the engine. The canal can't be worse than teenage socks!

[Richard Bustens]

Yep it's a boy thing, girls dont go through that stage.

I remember when the kids were about 6 the wife and i were going out somewhere and gran came round to babysit , as usual we were running late and she was bathing the kids as we were leaving and i heard a voice from upstairs "No granmar No , not the soap, mummy never uses the soap.

Funny how these things come back to haunt you i think i will show this to his wife...lol

[Paul Evans]

Yep it's a boy thing, girls dont go through that stage.

 

Well mine did and still is! Despite clear and unambiguous requests to place dirty clothes in the laundry basket, where do they never go? And her socks? The only good thing about them is that she changes them every day. I just can't work out how they end up under the furthest corner of her bed.

[nb maggie]

As some people seem to suggest I am not suggesting going back to the dark ages!! or some form of on-water camping.

 

Nor am I suggesting that w have to give up labour saving devices - but its a big difference between something important like a washing machine and a juicer or bread maker, both of the later can be replaced by little manual effort.

 

I am not a wuzz with the shoreline - it was at the mooring (no choice and hardly ever used). Psychologically having a bloody big Lister CanalStar diesel that can generate power and heat water gives me plenty of comfort. Plus two gas bottles and large diesel tank which would see me thorugh a whole winter if frozen in.

 

Now gadgets (which I love as well) use very little power and a lot can be run direct off 12 V or a car power adapter without an 230v inverter, with a little bit of planning or you can run some on nicads which can be charged off 12v when you have spare power.

 

As I said there are plenty of low power (and even widescreen) laptops that are really energy efficient and can give you TV, DVD Recorder and Computer and run off 12 V (And even have in-built battery backup!!). I have one with a USB Digital TV Tuner.

 

You can get a fairly decent Hi Fi using car stuff (yes, it will not be as good as a piece of Linn kit at home but then again boats are so not ideal acousticly) My Aiwa CD/MP3 with 4 decent speackers and Clarion (12v powered) sub-woofer sounds pretty good. My electric guitar practice amp also runs off 12v. My teenage daughter runs all the usual teenage stuff while on the boat.

 

Apart from the issue of the rubber hose and bottle changing I see no more risk in gas in the boat than at home. (actually less as it gets regularly inspected and tested).

 

I am suggesting that people think about what they are putting on their boat and make sensible selections - you may have to pay more for the electric appliances but don't need all the complex electrics.

 

Another great one piece of advice is - get a pressure cooker.

[Tommo]

I am with Andy here, we run loads of 240 volt equipment through a 2.5KW inverter. Including a fridgefreezer, microwave, washing machine. And what would I do without an electric toaster !!

Although I have no problem at all with gas,and we do all our main cooking with it, electricity makes everything so much easier.

 

Tommo

[Big COL]

I feel a monty python coming on

 

Gas, electricity, central heating, hot and cold running water, and you still think you have it hard, huh.

 

When I were a lad you had to walk two miles with a bucket if you wanted water, and just a piece of string for the handle, holes in yer socks coudnt afford shoes yer feet used to stick to floor in the frost, 'ands were blue when yer got back, and then yer got a bang round the ear from yer ma, cuss youd spilled too much water, many the time I had a gu agin as there wernt enough left, and you think you got it hard?

[Richard Bustens]

Tommo who is Andy?

[DHutch]

Andy, aka "Khayamanzi"

 

(his names in his sig)

[Martin]

A couple of things - tongue in cheek as usual...

Maggie - you seem to have as many gadgets on board as I do; you just run yours from a 12v supply.

This is fine, but with all those 12v wires losing power, I think 240v is my preferred option.

The "manual" lifestyle you endorse is not just a boat thing.

Bread-makers are just as much of an extravagance in a house where elbow grease is just as plentiful.

So why do people buy and use them at all - because fresh bread is delicious but life is too short to knead - knead more - wait - knock back - wait - knead - cook!

If for no other reason - if we didn't have all these labour saving devices, where would we get the time to fix, repair and generally tweek our alternators, inverters, regulators and such!?

 

DOR - with all the back-pumping and such going on at the moment, do you really want my socks dangling in the canal at Tyrley if the same water is going to be washing your smalls (or worse) tomorrow?

[dor]

good point Martin, however you are not exactly a teenager so perhaps they are not too potent!

[maffi mushkila]

<snip>Some of us like to live above the "basic" level - so I have a proper hi-fi, proper TV, VCR and computer.

<snip>

 

These Items are all 230v as far as the first transformer where it is dropped to 6-9-12 ish.

 

The dignity gained to live above a basic level is lost by taking a 12 Vdc supply inverting it to 230 only to have your device transform it back down again. Not only is there a financial cost but also a power cost. I wonder what is the point?

 

I bought my stereo specificaly because it has a 110/220Vac input and a 12Vdc input. Ideal for my living circumstances now and also for when I eventually move on to a boat. I am sure mine isn't the only dual voltage stereo on the market.

 

I can see the need for an inverter for washing machines, irons etc. but why drive everything with 220 Vac when it is neither necessary nor cost effective.

[Big COL]

Maffi

 

I understood that a multi voltage TV used an internal inverter to bring the voltage back up to 230v, is this not the case then?