CAV BPE Fuel Pump Governor lubrication

[richardf]

I always thought my fuel pump was self sufficient in terms of lubrication - in the absence of a dipstick, the overflow fuel simply overflows from point C on the images. I have recently found out that the governor (the big lump on the RHS) should receive attention every 300 hours, an oil change with 5/8th of as pint of engine oil. The manual is full of warnings about overfilling, but is devoid of details of where exactly it is filled through and drained from!

With that in mind, I undid the plug ( that seemed most logical and - shock horror - nothing came out. So either it is empty or it is the wrong drain!

 

My understanding is to fill through the big brass plug (A) and drain through (

 

Does anyone have one of these pumps and can assist please

 

 

 

Thanks

[koukouvagia]

Well, you live and learn. I too assumed that a CAV BPE fuel pump governor didn't need extra lubrication.

 

This is what it says in the CAV handbook:

 

 

Where the dipstick should be on mine, there's just a bolt. I'll have to investigate this further!

 

ETA I'm confused!

 

This is what the Kelvin Manual says and that's what I've been doing

36. FUEL PUMP.--The internal parts of the fuel pump are of super quality. They stand up to their work indefinitely if protected from water and grit. The absence of a water trap on the tank or neglect to tap it regularly will quickly ruin the pump. The filter must be cleaned regularly (39). The pipe between the filter and the fuel pump must be scrupulously clean before assembling. Do not attempt to dismantle the fuel pump without reference to the C.A.V. Instruction Book supplied in the tool box. The brass stop on the control rod prevents excessive discharge from the pump. Its position was carefully adjusted on test to suit the power output stated in the catalogue. Do not attempt to move it or disturb the seal.

*37 FUEL PUMP LUBRICATION

.

--

The pump is lubricated by fuel oil and therefore no attention to lubrication is required.

Edited March 26, 2012 by koukouvagia

[richardf]

Well, you live and learn. I too assumed that a CAV BPE fuel pump governor didn't need extra lubrication.

 

This is what it says in the CAV handbook:

 

 

Where the dipstick should be on mine, there's just a bolt. I'll have to investigate this further!

 

ETA I'm confused!

 

This is what the Kelvin Manual says and that's what I've been doing

36. FUEL PUMP.--The internal parts of the fuel pump are of super quality. They stand up to their work indefinitely if protected from water and grit. The absence of a water trap on the tank or neglect to tap it regularly will quickly ruin the pump. The filter must be cleaned regularly (39). The pipe between the filter and the fuel pump must be scrupulously clean before assembling. Do not attempt to dismantle the fuel pump without reference to the C.A.V. Instruction Book supplied in the tool box. The brass stop on the control rod prevents excessive discharge from the pump. Its position was carefully adjusted on test to suit the power output stated in the catalogue. Do not attempt to move it or disturb the seal.

*37 FUEL PUMP LUBRICATION

.

--

The pump is lubricated by fuel oil and therefore no attention to lubrication is required.

 

Yes - the fuel pump is self lubricating with fuel oil. It is the governor end which came as a surprise to me and is currently confusing me! As you can see from my pics, there is a point on the pump where you can imagine the dipstick would be on the pump itself ©, but just below this is a tapping - mine has a fitting screwed into this and a small bore copper pipe attached - I have a horrible feeling this might just drip into the engine tray!

As a matter of interest, what engine do you have? Would be interested in what others use the BPE pump (although mine is a 4 cylinder and hence will be more of a rarity in a canal boat)

[koukouvagia]

As a matter of interest, what engine do you have? Would be interested in what others use the BPE pump (although mine is a 4 cylinder and hence will be more of a rarity in a canal boat)

 

K2.

[frangar]

The BPE pumps fitted to JP's have a dipstick where the circular bit sticks out from the casting and should be filled with engine oil to the mark on the dipstick. They do seem to get diesel in the pump oil from time to time which can be sucked out using a syringe and refilled with clean oil to prevent wear on the cam lobes.....perhaps the pumps fitted to Kelvins had slightly different internals?

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[rjasmith]

The BPE pumps fitted to JP's have a dipstick where the circular bit sticks out from the casting and should be filled with engine oil to the mark on the dipstick. They do seem to get diesel in the pump oil from time to time which can be sucked out using a syringe and refilled with clean oil to prevent wear on the cam lobes.....perhaps the pumps fitted to Kelvins had slightly different internals?

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

 

I've read somewhere that it was a good idea to do this and have set aside an empty (and carefully cleaned up) liquid hand soap dispenser for the purpose of sucking out the diesel diluted lube oil via the pump dip stick hole from time to time. A "Carex" dispenser is ideal as the suction tube is just the right length! (This is on a BPE pump on a Kelvin K2).

 

Once sucked out, just replace with clean engine oil to the right level on the dip stick.

 

Richard

[NB Alnwick]

The pumps fitted to Kelvin engines have a separate Kelvin Governor designed to cope with slower engine speeds and this is remote from the fuel pump.

 

The CAV governor, as shown, is attached directly to the fuel pump and both need lubricating oil in their respective sumps. The fact that no mention is made of this in the original CAV operating documentation may just indicate that the oil was only changed during routine overhaul in a clean workshop.

 

We use ordinary SAE30 in the sump of our BPE3 which has a dipstick fitted and a drain-off to prevent overfilling - this makes life easier . . .

[glospaul]

On 26/03/2012 at 11:05, koukouvagia said:

Well, you live and learn. I too assumed that a CAV BPE fuel pump governor didn't need extra lubrication.

 

This is what it says in the CAV handbook:

 

http://i479.photobucket.com/albums/rr156/koukouvagia1928/P1090259.jpg

 

Where the dipstick should be on mine, there's just a bolt. I'll have to investigate this further!

 

ETA I'm confused!

 

This is what the Kelvin Manual says and that's what I've been doing

 

 

36. FUEL PUMP.--The internal parts of the fuel pump are of super quality. They stand up to their work indefinitely if protected from water and grit. The absence of a water trap on the tank or neglect to tap it regularly will quickly ruin the pump. The filter must be cleaned regularly (39). The pipe between the filter and the fuel pump must be scrupulously clean before assembling. Do not attempt to dismantle the fuel pump without reference to the C.A.V. Instruction Book supplied in the tool box. The brass stop on the control rod prevents excessive discharge from the pump. Its position was carefully adjusted on test to suit the power output stated in the catalogue. Do not attempt to move it or disturb the seal.

 

 

 

 

 

*37 FUEL PUMP LUBRICATION

.

--

The pump is lubricated by fuel oil and therefore no attention to lubrication is required.

 

Hi

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but did you ever conclude on the oiling needs for your pump? I think mines the same. It doesn’t have a dip stick, just a bolt, but it also doesn’t have any obvious drain off plug.

cheers

[BEngo]

KK sorted the problem by transferring the boat and the K2 to a new owner.😊

I change the pump oil annually, or if the level rises too much,  but mine has both a dipstick and a drain plug. Could we have a picture of your pump, including Bolt please?  I suspect it may be a level plug.

In that case I would remove the level plug every 250 -300 hours and either top up with engine oil or allow the excess to drain off.  If consistently draining off the pumping elements are beginning to wear and I would look to renew the oil.

 

N

 

[Tony Brooks]

@BEngo Were not some filled via the tappet cover, or am I getting mixed up with Simms?

[glospaul]

20 minutes ago, BEngo said:

KK sorted the problem by transferring the boat and the K2 to a new owner.😊

I change the pump oil annually, or if the level rises too much,  but mine has both a dipstick and a drain plug. Could we have a picture of your pump, including Bolt please?  I suspect it may be a level plug.

In that case I would remove the level plug every 250 -300 hours and either top up with engine oil or allow the excess to drain off.  If consistently draining off the pumping elements are beginning to wear and I would look to renew the oil.

 

N

 

Thanks for the reply

heres the picture 

 

[BEngo]

Tony,   I had  never seen one filled through the tappet chamber, but then I saw glospaul's photo.

 

Glospaul.  That is a BPE fitted for a lift pump.  A lift pump  bolts on instead of the plate with three studs.   If you remove the plate the oil will drain out. How you would establish the correct oil  level after refitting it I don't know.  You would need to ensure that the cams were at least dipping into the oil as they revolve.  The drain/level plug (if fitted) is on the cylinder side of  the pump.  It is easy enough to undo, but not always easy to get back in!

I suppose you could drain the oil into a container and see how much there is, then put that much engine oil into the pump.

 

 As above, I had never seen a chamber cover like yours.  The bolt appears to be in a dipstick tube, but there is not meant to be any oil behind the chamber cover, so it must be a filling or vent tube,  though the usual gauze vent is there.  A bolt would stop it being much use as a vent.

 

If you can find the late Peter Forbes website (at old engine.org IIRC) , it has a mine of information on CAV pumps and build standards.  That may shed some light on your pump features.

Do you have a decent old fashioned diesel injection specialist handy?  If so I would go, with pictures of your pump  and chat them up to see if they can give any advice on lubrication of your particular buildq.  Given the age of most BPE pumps they are as likely to be bitsas as the engines they are fitted to.  Added to that is the Bergius mentality of "fit whatever works'" in the face of what today would be called supply chain issues.

 

N

[Tony Brooks]

I did not mean what you think I meant. I am sure we used to have to take the tappet cover off and pour a specific amount of oil through holes in the floor of that chamber, but as I said that may be on Simms pumps.

 

My impression of the photo is that maybe someone has lost the dipstick and substituted the bolt. I think I would remove the bolt and probe to see if its possible to pt a rod down into the cam chamber. If it is, then ding as you say to drain it and pouring in the correct amount of oil would allow a dipstick to be made. it's finding the correct amount of oil that may be difficult.

[glospaul]

Thank you both for the advice. I’m sort of glad that it’s not just me who’s a bit perplexed by the pump. I’ve not been able to find any pics online with a similar setup to mine. I’ll do some careful exploration of the other side of that bolt and try to find someone who specialises in these pumps for a chat as suggested. Thanks again for your help!

paul