how much to charge

[carlt]

Errr...Has anybody mentioned the established hire companies that private owners can place their boats with and the company hire it out as one of their fleet, thereby avoiding a lot of the bureaucracy?

 

I know Willow Wren used to do this (not that I'd let them anywhere near a boat of mine) and I'm sure someone will know of other companies that also have schemes.

[mayalld]

In fact it's so difficult to hire boats that you just don't see them anywhere...

 

to the OP, yes it is eminently possible to hire your boat, you need the additional paperwork and access to facilities (facilities are needed only if you are doing weekly rather than long term hire) mentioned here as well as a good head for customer relations.

 

As to how much you should charge. if it's by the week then anything up to £1000 seems to be the norm but depends on the number of berths.

 

if you're thinking of renting for the full four months then you could get £500 per month but be prepared to reduce this if you want an easy ride from your tenants.

 

Sometimes I wonder what this forum is about - two pages of just saying "nah mate" to something that is a standard of the waterways. If you haven't anything to say then keep your mouths shut.

 

It is indeed reasonably easy to hire boats out, provided that;

1) They have been built and fitted out to comply with the more stringent BSC requirements.

2) You have the right insurance

3) You have the right licence

 

So, let us assume that the OP can actually hire their boat out for £500 per month from April to July, and get an income of £2,000 for it.

 

And let us also consider what additional expenses will be incurred;

 

New BSS examination, including an allowance for some changes that need to be made = £400

Relicencing as a hire boat, best case scenario would be that the licence expires at the end of March and that the OP licences as a hire boat then, and claims a refund at the end of July, relicencing as a private boat then.

Cost of licencing as a hire boat for that period = £1130, against the cost of buying a new leisure licence and not using it for 4 months of £237.

Increased insurance costs = £100 (guess there)

BMF Handover Audit = £110

Advertising it for rent = £25

One engineer call out to deal with a breakdown = £200

 

So the gross margin here is less than £300, and in return for this, the OP will have to spend time and effort preparing the boat, handing it over, and may suffer more depreciation because it will be subject to knocks and scrapes along the way. I stand by my assertion that it isn't financially viable.

[Ray T]

Errr...Has anybody mentioned the established hire companies that private owners can place their boats with and the company hire it out as one of their fleet, thereby avoiding a lot of the bureaucracy?

 

I know Willow Wren used to do this (not that I'd let them anywhere near a boat of mine) and I'm sure someone will know of other companies that also have schemes.

 

Kate Boats also have a similar scheme. The boat is in their livery though.

[MtB]

And there was m expecting a thread about battery charging....

[Chris Pink]

It is indeed reasonably easy to hire boats out, provided that;

1) They have been built and fitted out to comply with the more stringent BSC requirements.

2) You have the right insurance

3) You have the right licence

 

So, let us assume that the OP can actually hire their boat out for £500 per month from April to July, and get an income of £2,000 for it.

 

And let us also consider what additional expenses will be incurred;

 

New BSS examination, including an allowance for some changes that need to be made = £400

Relicencing as a hire boat, best case scenario would be that the licence expires at the end of March and that the OP licences as a hire boat then, and claims a refund at the end of July, relicencing as a private boat then.

Cost of licencing as a hire boat for that period = £1130, against the cost of buying a new leisure licence and not using it for 4 months of £237.

Increased insurance costs = £100 (guess there)

BMF Handover Audit = £110

Advertising it for rent = £25

One engineer call out to deal with a breakdown = £200

 

So the gross margin here is less than £300 and in return for this, the OP will have to spend time and effort preparing the boat, handing it over, and may suffer more depreciation because it will be subject to knocks and scrapes along the way. I stand by my assertion that it isn't financially viable.

 

Well I'm glad to see I've goaded someone to make a sensible reply. So your figures show there is some money in it. And give some sensible worst case figures to work with. It only took two pages.

 

I could knock spots off your figures but I'll leave that to the OP. After all you'll be used to working in jobs where cutting costs is an artform.

 

So we have a scenario whereby maybe he has to charge £650 a month and can make a return on investment of £1,000 even at your worst case figures then I think it's a goer.

 

...and those costs are more or less the same for weekly hire, factor in a fee for a pumpout arrangement and it's a nice little earner.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Chris Pink

[mayalld]

Well I'm glad to see I've goaded someone to make a sensible reply. So your figures show there is some money in it. And give some sensible worst case figures to work with. It only took two pages.

 

I could knock spots off your figures but I'll leave that to the OP. After all you'll be used to working in jobs where cutting costs is an artform.

 

So we have a scenario whereby maybe he has to charge £650 a month and can make a return on investment of £1,000 even at your worst case figures then I think it's a goer.

 

...and those costs are more or less the same for weekly hire, factor in a fee for a pumpout arrangement and it's a nice little earner.

 

My figures are hardly worst case.

 

They account for not having to do much to bring it up to Hire boat standards, and assume that the OP isn't going to lose anything on surrendering an existing private licence early, and that he only has one breakdown during the hire period. If anything, they are best case figures!

 

Cutting costs may well be an art form, but frankly a huge chunk of the costs simply isn't amenable to cutting anything. The licence cost isn't avoidable, the insurance cost isn't avoidable, the BSS examination cost isn't avoidable. If you think my figures are wrong, feel free to tell me where they are wrong.

 

BTW, using my best case figures, if he can get £650 a month, he still isn't getting £1,000 ROI

[MtB]

Surely £650 a week income is more realistic, not a month?

[Chris Pink]

Surely £650 a week income is more realistic, not a month?

 

if you're doing weekly hire then yes, if you're doing monthly hire then no.

[Guest]

Kate Boats also have a similar scheme. The boat is in their livery though.

 

A forum member, who's name escapes me has just bought a boat and is doing this with Kate boats.

[Chris Pink]

Escape the Rat Race is a management company that allows owners to share their ownership with others - who are able to occupy the boats for a period of time. While on the boats the occupant becomes a minority owner. Escape the Rat Race manages the boat on behalf of both owners ensuring that the boat is safe, properly licensed and fully insured, and that all is correct as far as British Waterways is concerned.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Chris Pink

[Guest]

Stop trying to be clever Chris - the info. is here -

 

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/media/documents/boat-licensing/bw-business-fees-2012.pdf

 

Nicely edited...

 

Quote Chris Pink

 

How's that? I don't know about the licence and my employer won't give me the time to research them. Are you really saying a hire boat licence is £4,520 per year for a 50 foot boat.

 

You know where to find the info., and why the snide 'my employer won't give me the time' comment.

 

I understood you are self employed.

Edited March 20, 2012 by MJG

[Chris Pink]

How sad you are Asdaman that you invent a quote simply to have a pop at me.

[Guest]

How sad you are Asdaman that you invent a quote simply to have a pop at me.

 

Asdaman, twats -

 

Liberal with the insults as ever but less so on the truth, are you really claiming you didn't say that before your edit?

 

Google Chrome's tabs say differently...

[mayalld]

 

Quote Chris Pink

 

How's that? I don't know about the licence and my employer won't give me the time to research them. Are you really saying a hire boat licence is £4,520 per year for a 50 foot boat.

 

You know where to find the info., and why the snide 'my employer won't give me the time' comment.

 

 

Thank you for saving Pinky's comment from his desire to hide it!

 

Actually, I must confess to a stupid arithmetical error in that part of the calculation, but I ask to be excused, on the grounds that Pinky made a similarly silly error above.

 

I stated that the fee for FOUR months would be £1,130, and Pinky multiplied it by 4 to arrive at the annual fee, instead of 3.

 

However, my calculation was flawed, because I subtracted 41 from 100 and got 69, instead of 59!

 

To assist Mr Pink, business licences are only available as 12 month licences, and the licence on a 50 foot boat is £1,639.34

 

The OP, can licence the boat in April for 12 months, and get a refund at the end of July, that refund will be 41% of the fee paid

[paddy r]

 

 

 

I would call that helpful.

 

...schoolboy crap about popcorn etc is not.

 

but judging by the OP's last post before going off in disgust he considers this thread to be the preserve of a right load of rude and ignorant twats.

 

Edited to add: I do see, to your credit that you did give reasonable advice before getting swept away by the childish mob. You should try harder not to be so easily led.

 

 

 

 

And i do see to your credit that you gave a reAsonable answer before the "school boy crap" and then have slanging match with MJG,very mature!

[Guest]

And i do see to your credit that you gave a reAsonable answer before the "school boy crap" and then have slanging match with MJG,very mature!

 

I don't think we are having a slanging match to be fair...

 

I've merely exposed an attempt by Chris to deny something he initially posted and then edited, but then subsequently tried to deny he'd ever actually posted.

 

Hey ho...

[NBMike]

Probably too late. Can I have some badgers noses please, extra salt. Ta

 

Badgers spleens! (Otters noses)

[Grace and Favour]

 

Badgers spleens! (Otters noses)

 

If you'd got to the party earlier we had everything available - - - unfortunately some things have since sold out

[NBMike]

If you'd got to the party earlier we had everything available - - - unfortunately some things have since sold out

sorry - was out working, to pay the licence fee!