Boot lace ferroules ??? really

[Chalky]

There's also the issue of tin whiskers which whilst not a cable issue is a significant cause of failures for circuit boards.

[smileypete]

The issue with tinned multistrand is that the solder creeps under the clamp pressure and hence reduces the contact. In some cases it is possible for a tinned wire in a screw clamp to be so loose that it is a poor contact and a heating problem and maybe a fire issue.

+1

 

Slightly though not completely OT but I’m not even allowed to use anything that is simply a screw down onto conductor even with a ferule, and solder excepting internal board panel wiring is also disallowed if I am to sign the job off as compliant. I appreciate that the stresses & vibration levels present on commercial offshore boats and even offshore leisure craft are higher and any failure can more easily lead to catastrophe but still believe it is best practise not to rely simply on a screw contact for termination when more reliable and dare I say workman like options are readily available.

So how would you fit standard 13A sockets in say an offshore trawler?

 

For a narrowboat I think that solid core T&E is still permitted under BSS, and I think it's probably fine as long as you're sensible about it.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[soldthehouse]

I used to solder all of my connections when rewiring my fleet of classic bikes ie m21 and the like. Stopped this practice after a lengthy lecture about fatigue from a well respected ex coalbord electrical engineer.

[ditchcrawler]

I used to solder all of my connections when rewiring my fleet of classic bikes ie m21 and the like. Stopped this practice after a lengthy lecture about fatigue from a well respected ex coalbord electrical engineer.

But did you ever have a failure.

[soldthehouse]

But did you ever have a failure.

To be truthful I cant say I did! Perhaps my respect was unfounded in this case

[bizzard]

To be truthful I cant say I did! Perhaps my respect was unfounded in this case

Nor have i,though i've come across plenty of dodgy crimpings on various boats and on original car manufacturers wiring.I've seen the odd dry solder joint but they've been DIY amateur ones.

Keep soldering on Solderhouse. I am. So onward christian solderers.

[soldthehouse]

Nor have i,though i've come across plenty of dodgy crimpings on various boats and on original car manufacturers wiring.I've seen the odd dry solder joint but they've been DIY amateur ones.

Keep soldering on Solderhouse. I am. So onward christian solderers.

my new hero

[bizzard]

my new hero

[soldthehouse]

[Ark Right]

Slightly though not completely OT but I'm not even allowed to use anything that is simply a screw down onto conductor even with a ferule, and solder excepting internal board panel wiring is also disallowed if I am to sign the job off as compliant. I appreciate that the stresses & vibration levels present on commercial offshore boats and even offshore leisure craft are higher and any failure can more easily lead to catastrophe but still believe it is best practise not to rely simply on a screw contact for termination when more reliable and dare I say workman like options are readily available.

 

So Mastervolt Inverters etc are non compliant, have you mentioned this to them.?

[RLWP]

So Mastervolt Inverters etc are non compliant, have you mentioned this to them.?

 

If he puts a bootlace ferrule on the wire, he's compliant

 

Richard

[Ark Right]

If he puts a bootlace ferrule on the wire, he's compliant

 

Richard

 

Read his post again , not what he is saying!

[RLWP]

Read his post again , not what he is saying!

 

I would but...

 

1/. I can't be bothered and

 

2/. I'm too far through a few cans of Hobgoblin to care

 

Richard

Edited February 26, 2012 by RLWP

[NMEA]

So Mastervolt Inverters etc are non compliant, have you mentioned this to them.?

 

 

Sorry, my error, I should have typed and meant to type, without a ferulle, i.e. with the screw directly contacting the conductor. Mastervolt do not have screws that can directly contact the conductor anyway, they have a falling "tab" that is pressed against the conductor by screwing down thus giving a larger and less damaging contact as do many quality pieces of equipment that may appear to be simple screw down.

 

+1

 

 

So how would you fit standard 13A sockets in say an offshore trawler?

 

Quality sockets with falling tabs instead of direct screw contact, all cabled up using (as always) fully tinned hi multi strand cable, I still use ferules though even though not strictly needed with falling tabs.

[Chalky]

Nor have i,though i've come across plenty of dodgy crimpings on various boats and on original car manufacturers wiring.I've seen the odd dry solder joint but they've been DIY amateur ones.

Keep soldering on Solderhouse. I am. So onward christian solderers.

 

Soldering connections to wiring is not allowed in aerospace applications and has not been done in car industry (premium end) for at least 20 years due to stress fractures causing failures. We also don't allow hand crimp tools since the crimps can't be quality controlled. All crimps have to be machine done and the machines have to be reqularly checked for crimp quality. Dealers are supposed to replace a damaged harness or replace the wire with a factory terminated one however some may do hand repairs which I suspect Bizzard has seen. Airbag harnesses and fibre optic cables are a mandatory harness replacement.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Chalky

[bizzard]

Funnilie enuf,Last Friday i was asked to take a look at a boat here's Eberschpackup which had packed up. AHHAA! i thought ''CRIMPS''got to be crimps,so armed with soldering gear i marched boldly and purposefully to the job,murmuring in time with each step--crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,nearly there,crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,crump.Sadly it wasn't.The boat,an ex Black prince hire boat,although with fairly basic electrics it had good quality solid switch gear ect,non of your touch controls and relays and stuff,except the Eberschpackup's own junction box which had those horrid point ended continental fuses inside,of course unfortunately these were the trouble,all mill dewy and manky,not a dodgy crimp,''blow''.

Anyway job done i sauntered dismally back to Lady Olga---going fuse,fuse,confused,fuse,fuse,confused,fuse,fused,pop.

[NMEA]

Funnilie enuf,Last Friday i was asked to take a look at a boat here's Eberschpackup which had packed up. AHHAA! i thought ''CRIMPS''got to be crimps,so armed with soldering gear i marched boldly and purposefully to the job,murmuring in time with each step--crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,nearly there,crimp,crimp,crimp,crimp,crump.Sadly it wasn't.The boat,an ex Black prince hire boat,although with fairly basic electrics it had good quality solid switch gear ect,non of your touch controls and relays and stuff,except the Eberschpackup's own junction box which had those horrid point ended continental fuses inside,of course unfortunately these were the trouble,all mill dewy and manky,not a dodgy crimp,''blow''.

Anyway job done i sauntered dismally back to Lady Olga---going fuse,fuse,confused,fuse,fuse,confused,fuse,fused,pop.

 

Absolutely right, those Ebo fuses are garbage and we always replace them with inline waterproof ones or Blue Sea fuse panel even when fitting from new, if I ever encounter one during service it comes out too, I really don't know what they were thinking.

Edited February 26, 2012 by NMEA

[bizzard]

Soldering connections to wiring is not allowed in aerospace applications and has not been done in car industry (premium end) for at least 20 years due to stress fractures causing failures. We also don't allow hand crimp tools since the crimps can't be quality controlled. All crimps have to be machine done and the machines have to be reqularly checked for crimp quality. Dealers are supposed to replace a damaged harness or replace the wire with a factory terminated one however some may do hand repairs which I suspect Bizzard has seen. Airbag harnesses and fibre optic cables are a mandatory harness replacement.

Yes i've been told that before.No i'm talking about older cars out of guarantee, never came across solder joint failure even on the old bullet ended wires,they frequently failed due to damp ingress where they plugged into their joining connectors,no seal.

I suppose in the Aerospace industry soft solders is not used also because in the event of the aeroplane or whatever catching fire the solder would heat up and let go and all the wires might start popping out of their connectors. Mind you if crimped connectors heated up too much they would expand weaken and probably let go anyway.

As for stress factors,all i can say is it must be caused by people who can't solder properly,Believe me there's not many machines that vibrate more than my Lister ST and almost all the cables on it i've soldered. I suppose the high up electronic industries plane makers ect don't trust the human hand. There's also welding and there's welding.

[RLWP]

Bullet connectors are a bit different though (ignoring the horrendous corrosion problems) as the solder is only at the very tip, then there is a length of cable fully supported by the shroud of the bullet

 

Richard

[bizzard]

Absolutely right, those Ebo fuses are garbage and we always replace them with inline waterproof ones or Blue Sea fuse panel even when fitting from new, if I ever encounter one during service it comes out too, I really don't know what they were thinking.

Most motor cars used them during the 70's and 80's an absolute pain and constantly in trouble with bad contact.My present car has them bloody Bosch, and i frequently squirt contact cleaner atem and give em a twirl with the finger.

[ditchcrawler]

Soldering connections to wiring is not allowed in aerospace applications and has not been done in car industry (premium end) for at least 20 years due to stress fractures causing failures. We also don't allow hand crimp tools since the crimps can't be quality controlled. All crimps have to be machine done and the machines have to be reqularly checked for crimp quality. Dealers are supposed to replace a damaged harness or replace the wire with a factory terminated one however some may do hand repairs which I suspect Bizzard has seen. Airbag harnesses and fibre optic cables are a mandatory harness replacement.

I can't argue these points as I don't have first hand knowledge but I would bet that when crimps became cheaper than solder the car industry changed to them. Cost is the reason for most changes followed by legislation.

 

I started my motoring life with Austins, Triumphs etc. all had soldered bullet connectors, I never ever had one break off. I had lots corrode so badly that you almost broke the wire strands getting them apart but never pulled the bullet off.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

I had lots corrode so badly that you almost broke the wire strands getting them apart but never pulled the bullet off.

 

 

Almost??? You were lucky!

 

Richard

[ditchcrawler]

Almost??? You were lucky!

 

Richard

I usually smashed the receptacles (don't know proper name) at that point

[bizzard]

Bullet connectors are a bit different though (ignoring the horrendous corrosion problems) as the solder is only at the very tip, then there is a length of cable fully supported by the shroud of the bullet

 

Richard

Most ordinary plug in connectors like solder type spade ''Lucars''for example are supported by squeeze tags onto the sheath anyway. I think Ditchcrawlers supplied the best answer.

[RLWP]

Most ordinary plug in connectors like solder type spade ''Lucars''for example are supported by squeeze tags onto the sheath anyway. I think Ditchcrawlers supplied the best answer.

 

That he smashed the receptacles?

 

Richard